Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

[Nick Papagiorgio]

Re: Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

Looking back on BU's regional final losses, I'll certainly grant you that they were very close in '98, '00 and '02.

I was waiting to get some time to look back on some things. This brings me back to where I was going with this...

Looking on the flip side, you have to be a little skeptical about NCAA performances lately under Parker aside from their 2009 run. Who could forget the powerhouses they beat before that 2009 run. Harvard under Mazzolini, 1st time entrant UNO (not your Dean Blais UNO), and tournament winless SCSU (prior to their first win last year). Powerhouses I tells ya! And some of these losses were UGLY.

2000 - Beat juggernaut St. Cloud State and went on to lose a thriller SLU. I'm actually inclined to say this was a legitimately ok NCAA performance but probably not much more than ok.
2002 - one and done, had a bye but lost to Maine by a goal. 1 win away from the FF? Yes. Is this impressive given that they won 0 NCAA games? Absolutely not.
2003 - Beat Harvard with a solid win. Lost 3-0 to UNH (ENG). 1 win away from the FF? Yes. Is beating Harvard worth getting jazzed about? Opinions may differ but I think not. You were only two goals away from a FF if you discount the ENG. CLOSE!
2005 - 4-0 Beatdown vs. UND (yes BC lost to them too). One and done. Wooo.
2006 - Beat Children of the Corn UNO in a legit beatdown. Got smoked by BC the next night 5-0. Woooo, we were 5 goals away from a Frozen Four, so close!
2007 - Got smoked by MSU (yes they also beat BC). One and done. No way to spin this one.
2009 - One day, a blind squarrel found a nut the moment a broken clock was actually showing the right time.

I'm not piling on, I'm just looking at it from the other side. It's interesting to see how people look at this. This is what I see when I look at Parker's tournament performances lately.

Lastly, I think it's been mentioned by several people here but I do think this loss on Monday has caused a gross overreaction and this type of discussion should be done after BU fails in a few more weeks.

 

[Terrier520]

Re: Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

Brilliant, thank you! Comparison to a UNH mentality perfect. Can you imagine a BC program ever being satisfied again about a 20 win season, just making it to the first round of the NCAA's and making it to the HE semi's. And I still dont get the "elite" program comments. This is 14 years folks, what years in that period was this team on the verge of a FF or feeling like a major contender for the NC. 2009, 2006, and maybe 2000.

Yes, but Jofa, when BU gets to the tournament, they're playing quality teams. It's parity. We wanted better players in college hockey, and we're getting better teams. Like I said, looking at the tournament history, BUhas lost to good teams. Most of those games were close games. There is no way the "dominate" era of BU hockey can exist anymore, just like there's no way that BC can "dominate," even when they've won 2 titles in 3 years.

 

[slurpees]

Re: Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

Assuming we lose a few games down the stretch this season and don't make the tournament -

My problem is not that we will miss the NCAA tournament 3 out of the last 4 years (though that is a major concern). What upsets me the most is that BU was in position to make the NCAA tournament each of those 3 seasons. All they had to do was beat teams worse than them down the stretch. Their backs were against the wall; all they had to do was come out, play hard and beat the PCs, UVMs, UMass's, and Lowell's and they couldn't get it done.

From what I recall, we never were really "in position" to make it in 08 or last season. We missed it largely because we dug ourselves such a huge hole in the beginning of the season that we basically had to go virtually undefeated in the second half of the season to make it, which is an unrealistic expectation. This year is a case where we are/have been in a position to make it. I don't remember a point during either of the first two seasons where we were comfortably in the top 14 of the pwr in the latter half of the season, whereas this year we've been in the top 15 for most of the season until recently slipping out.

 

[limey]

Re: Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

I was waiting to get some time to look back on some things. This brings me back to where I was going with this...

Looking on the flip side, you have to be a little skeptical about NCAA performances lately under Parker aside from their 2009 run. Who could forget the powerhouses they beat before that 2009 run. Harvard under Mazzolini, 1st time entrant UNO (not your Dean Blais UNO), and tournament winless SCSU (prior to their first win last year). Powerhouses I tells ya! And some of these losses were UGLY.

2000 - Beat juggernaut St. Cloud State and went on to lose a thriller SLU. I'm actually inclined to say this was a legitimately ok NCAA performance but probably not much more than ok.
2002 - one and done, had a bye but lost to Maine by a goal. 1 win away from the FF? Yes. Is this impressive given that they won 0 NCAA games? Absolutely not.
2003 - Beat Harvard with a solid win. Lost 3-0 to UNH (ENG). 1 win away from the FF? Yes. Is beating Harvard worth getting jazzed about? Opinions may differ but I think not. You were only two goals away from a FF if you discount the ENG. CLOSE!
2005 - 4-0 Beatdown vs. UND (yes BC lost to them too). One and done. Wooo.
2006 - Beat Children of the Corn UNO in a legit beatdown. Got smoked by BC the next night 5-0. Woooo, we were 5 goals away from a Frozen Four, so close!
2007 - Got smoked by MSU (yes they also beat BC). One and done. No way to spin this one.
2009 - One day, a blind squarrel found a nut the moment a broken clock was actually showing the right time.

I'm not piling on, I'm just looking at it from the other side. It's interesting to see how people look at this. This is what I see when I look at Parker's tournament performances lately.

Lastly, I think it's been mentioned by several people here but I do think this loss on Monday has caused a gross overreaction and this type of discussion should be done after BU fails in a few more weeks.

You obviously did not watch the games in '00 or '02.

I really want to take you at your word that you're not "piling on" but (amongst other side commentary) the premise that '09 was a blind squirrel finding a nut demonstrates the contrary. Please go back to trolling other threads and leave the legitimate discussion to the adults.

 

[Nick Papagiorgio]

Re: Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

You obviously did not watch the games in '00 or '02.

Hey, it's almost happy hour time, shouldn't you be headed for the nearest bar right around now?

Wrong again limey. Saw both regionals. And I am just presenting my opinion on this, not trying to cause a meltdown and I'm not trolling...

Let's look at it this way... Someone just said something to the effect of 'we lost to quality teams'... great, but how many "quality teams" did BU beat during that stretch from 1998-2008? That's not a good NCAA performance and BU really didn't even sniff a national title. Maybe going .500 against that group would be realistically ok. But... ya know... let's get real here.

 

[ericredaxe]

Re: Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

My problem is not that we will miss the NCAA tournament 3 out of the last 4 years (though that is a major concern). What upsets me the most is that BU was in position to make the NCAA tournament each of those 3 seasons. All they had to do was beat teams worse than them down the stretch. Their backs were against the wall; all they had to do was come out, play hard and beat the PCs, UVMs, UMass's, and Lowell's and they couldn't get it done.

Are you talking about this year? Really, this year, apart from Monday night's debacle, if you look at the schedule, we have pretty much beaten the teams that we "should".

With the way the schedule fell, and a couple of good wins the frist weekend, we kind of backed our way into the number 1 ranking. But really, did any of you really think this was the best team in the country? Or did you think more like I did, that this is a solid young team with a reasonable chance at making the NCAA's and that next year they should grow into a more formidable opponent? Perhaps that ranking wasn't the best thing for either this young squad, or for some of the fans on the board.

 

[Rhett]

Re: Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

Hey, it's almost happy hour time, shouldn't you be headed for the nearest bar right around now?

Wrong again limey. Saw both regionals.

Were you at the game in 2000? Otherwise, you may have watched some of the game, but the Celtics were on instead of the overtimes.

 

[BU Fan 84]

Re: Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

From what I recall, we never were really "in position" to make it in 08 or last season. We missed it largely because we dug ourselves such a huge hole in the beginning of the season that we basically had to go virtually undefeated in the second half of the season to make it, which is an unrealistic expectation. This year is a case where we are/have been in a position to make it. I don't remember a point during either of the first two seasons where we were comfortably in the top 14 of the pwr in the latter half of the season, whereas this year we've been in the top 15 for most of the season until recently slipping out.

We were in position because, if we had won the games against teams that were much worse than us, we would have made the tournament. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a BU team with better players and better coaches with something to play for, to win six or eight games in a row against bad teams with nothing to play for.

 

[Jofa]

Re: Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

I think most of us are satisfied with 25+ win seasons every other year each time with a good shot at a National Title. During the other 50%, 20+ win seasons should be expected, with a NCAA appearance with a 1 true "down" year being acceptable every 4-5 years.

And that is pretty much what BU has done over the past decade.

The biggest issue that most people have appears to be BU's lack of FF appearances which is a pretty arbitrary place to put the emphasis. They were very close to at least 2-3 more FF appearances in the past 10 years. Are we really going to ring the program's death knell because of a bad bounce or two?

I dont think FF is an arbitrary measure at all I think its everything in college hockey success for the supposed elite programs. We are talking about having to win 2 or sometimes 1 game to get there, not like hoops where its always 4 wins. And BU will be missing the Ncaa's for the 4th time in 10 years, and they had a good shot at an NC in the last 10 maybe twice (06, 09) not 5 times. Thats not meeting your formula. And I dont remember the bounce or two in the BC, MSU,UND tournament losses those were routs, BU however benefitted greatly from an own goal or two or three in 2009.

 

[Terrier520]

Re: Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

2002 - one and done, had a bye but lost to Maine by a goal. 1 win away from the FF? Yes. Is this impressive given that they won 0 NCAA games? Absolutely not.

Maine went to the national championship game, and lost in OT. A loss to a respectable opponent.

2003 - Beat Harvard with a solid win. Lost 3-0 to UNH (ENG). 1 win away from the FF? Yes. Is beating Harvard worth getting jazzed about? Opinions may differ but I think not. You were only two goals away from a FF if you discount the ENG. CLOSE!

Lost to the national runner-up.

2005 - 4-0 Beatdown vs. UND (yes BC lost to them too). One and done. Wooo.

And NoDak beat BC handily, as well, on the way to the national runner-up.

2006 - Beat Children of the Corn UNO in a legit beatdown. Got smoked by BC the next night 5-0. Woooo, we were 5 goals away from a Frozen Four, so close!

This I could say was a legitimate stinker. BC went on to the national championship game, BU got smoked. BC outplayed BU during the game, but I contend that BU could have beaten anyone except BC that night.

2007 - Got smoked by MSU (yes they also beat BC). One and done. No way to spin this one.

They lost to the national champions.

2009 - One day, a blind squarrel found a nut the moment a broken clock was actually showing the right time.

I'm not piling on, I'm just looking at it from the other side. It's interesting to see how people look at this. This is what I see when I look at Parker's tournament performances lately.

Lastly, I think it's been mentioned by several people here but I do think this loss on Monday has caused a gross overreaction and this type of discussion should be done after BU fails in a few more weeks.

Nick, I think that yes, BU has not had the success in the tournament. But then again, they've lost to quality opponents, i.e., teams that weren't just one-and-done. This isn't Michigan choking in the first round to Air Force, or NoDak 09 losing to a one-and-done UNH team. The teams they lost to (for the most part) have gone on to do damage in the tournament.

Now, perhaps this does say something about BU's inability to win in a one-game situation; I do think there's an issue there. But I'm not also one to throw the baby out with the bathwater, especially when BU has had success last decade.

Now, I'm on the "let's wait and see 2 years" bandwagon. I believe that it's going to be harder to win 25 games every year in the new Hockey East. It's also going to be harder to win 20 games. BU won't be able to beat up on weak teams anymore.

 

[Jofa]

Re: Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

Fair enough although I'd say only Poti was a huge loss. Thought Ryan Whitney played three years?

Sorry forgot you were only talking 2 or less years.

 

[Terrier520]

Re: Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

I dont think FF is an arbitrary measure at all I think its everything in college hockey success for the supposed elite programs. We are talking about having to win 2 or sometimes 1 game to get there, not like hoops where its always 4 wins. And BU will be missing the Ncaa's for the 4th time in 10 years, and they had a good shot at an NC in the last 10 maybe twice (06, 09) not 5 times. Thats not meeting your formula. And I dont remember the bounce or two in the BC, MSU,UND tournament losses those were routs, BU however benefitted greatly from an own goal or two or three in 2009.

You know, in 86 game 6, the Red Sox weren't going to win, minus the lucky bounce. The game was tied. Or, to put it this way, BU was in a position to win those games. BU had dominated the OT session against Miami. In the UVM game, Vermont scored 3 in the second period on 16 shots. Outside of that, it was 1 goal on 11 shots. BU was the better team and came out on top. They might have won, even if it didn't go off a UVM player. And we can't forget that if the puck didn't go in off a UNH hand, the GWG would have gone in from Wilson. And even if somehow Wilson misses it, OT still starts with a BU PP for about a minute. So I'm not going to say that "BU almost blew it" in each game because htey got some lucky bounces.

And yes, Jofa, you have to win 1 or 2 games. But what's the problem if the team you lose to winds up winning the NC, or coming in second? BU hasn't lost to bad teams in the tournament.

 

[J.D.]

Re: Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

Were you at the game in 2000? Otherwise, you may have watched some of the game, but the Celtics were on instead of the overtimes.

Ha, wasn't the BU/SLU game still on after the Celtics? At least that's how I remember it...

This I could say was a legitimate stinker. BC went on to the national championship game, BU got smoked. BC outplayed BU during the game, but I contend that BU could have beaten anyone except BC that night.

It's hard to say BU would have beaten anyone that night when you consider they lost 5-0. We'll never know.

This isn't Michigan choking in the first round to Air Force, or NoDak 09 losing to a one-and-done UNH team. The teams they lost to (for the most part) have gone on to do damage in the tournament.

Air Force took UVM to OT the next day and UNH went toe to toe with BU in the regional final. I don't think those are great examples. But, anyway, I just think there are more "good" (not great) teams in college hockey these days. We've seen plenty of upsets in the tourney the last few years.

It's also going to be harder to win 20 games. BU won't be able to beat up on weak teams anymore.

Disagree with this. The bottom dwellers in Hockey East rotate from year to year and BC/BU really should be in the top four most years. 20 wins should be the norm IMO (at least).

And we can't forget that if the puck didn't go in off a UNH hand, the GWG would have gone in from Wilson.

Hmm I don't remember it this way...youtube?

 

[Jofa]

Re: Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

You know, in 86 game 6, the Red Sox weren't going to win, minus the lucky bounce. The game was tied. Or, to put it this way, BU was in a position to win those games. BU had dominated the OT session against Miami. In the UVM game, Vermont scored 3 in the second period on 16 shots. Outside of that, it was 1 goal on 11 shots. BU was the better team and came out on top. They might have won, even if it didn't go off a UVM player. And we can't forget that if the puck didn't go in off a UNH hand, the GWG would have gone in from Wilson. And even if somehow Wilson misses it, OT still starts with a BU PP for about a minute. So I'm not going to say that "BU almost blew it" in each game because htey got some lucky bounces.

And yes, Jofa, you have to win 1 or 2 games. But what's the problem if the team you lose to winds up winning the NC, or coming in second? BU hasn't lost to bad teams in the tournament.

I hate to be jumping in with the BC boys on these issues but I just think they are helluva alot more objective then the BU guys are on these topics (Parker, NCAA's, elite program) alteast this time. To try to spin like some are doing that BU has been a force in the tournament and were a bounce or two from more FF"s, the record and eyeball test doesnt bare that out. And the year 2000 "almost FF" is beyond the 10 year window now. In addition Nick is right about the tournament opponents that BU beat, save for Miami (2009) and UNH (06, 09) the wins have been against significantly lesser programs.

 

[slurpees]

Re: Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

Minor diversion: From the email sent to season ticket holders to renew tickets, apparently DU is playing here next season.

 

[pirate]

Re: Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

I think that you Eagle fans have been a little spoiled by the past few years. Most other fanbases have accepted that the tournament has become a series of coin tosses. If you consistently make the tournament with a reasonable chance of winning the games in front of you, then you're in "striking distance". To be fair, BU probably should have turned one or two more of their regional final appearances in the oughts into Frozen Four appearances, but there not off the pace much from what you can reasonably expect from a top tier program.

Given the health scares for both coaches it would be wise for everybody to consider that the status quo could change at their pace and not ours...not because of a health emergency but it isn't out of the realm of possibility that either one takes more time at the end of the season to ponder their future than they did when they were 40. If Jerry wins another one would he 'leave on a high note'?, you never know.

In terms of BU's performance, I have to bring up what I said the other day...where is our surprise year? We can talk about being good, having 20 win seasons and just missing but where is our ok year with a big finish that got us to the F4 when we probably weren't really that good? Aside from a few upsets in the HE quarters, when has BU exceeded late season expectations? I could tolerate the disappointments if we did something other when we had the vastly superior team, and still needed a miracle to pull out the NC.

We've certainly had a few years lately when our only way in was to win the HE tourney, have we done that? It frustrates me to not get to the NCAA's because we should have the talent to be a scary opponent, even if we are the 15 seed. This year, if we were the last team in and BC was #1, do you think they'd be thrilled to have us in their region? Think anybody would be happy to play a team with our talent, coaching experience etc? But we don't even get there. It aint the building, it isn't the volume of talent, we have a great trainer, we have plenty of guys in the NHL, we have fan support etc. On paper we are in the NCAA's 80% of the time and the F4 every few years.

Tell me Jack Parker is a no character bum and I'll ask you to step outside and say that...tell me the team is meeting or exceeding its capability and I'll ask you to step out of the hot sun.


edit: sorry, this sat waiting to go out for a while, I see some of the same ground has been covered but will leave it as is

 

[slurpees]

Re: Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

Hmm I don't remember it this way...youtube?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmQ_2a6WPo0 8:00

 

[Boston22]

Re: Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

I think a lot of the difference between BU and BC over the years has been the recruiting, especially with local talent. Not trying to flame here, but what New England kids has BU gotten, where they went toe-to-toe with BC, in recent memory?

I can't count Warsofsky and Coyle because they always wanted to go to BU and didn't even consider any other school.

I can't count Alex Chiassion, Sahir Gill, Robert Polesello or Cason Hohmann because they aren't from New England.

You would probably have to go back to Dan Spang, Ryan Whitney and Brian McConnell, right?

 

[Agganis]

Re: Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

I think a lot of the difference between BU and BC over the years has been the recruiting, especially with local talent. Not trying to flame here, but what New England kids has BU gotten, where they went toe-to-toe with BC, in recent memory?

I can't count Warsofsky and Coyle because they always wanted to go to BU and didn't even consider any other school.

I can't count Alex Chiassion, Sahir Gill, Robert Polesello or Cason Hohmann because they aren't from New England.

You would probably have to go back to Dan Spang, Ryan Whitney and Brian McConnell, right?

I'm not doing an exhaustive list, but I'm sure BC wouldn't have complained if Nick Bonino took his talents from CT to Chestnut Hill.

 

[J.D.]

Re: Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

Minor diversion: From the email sent to season ticket holders to renew tickets, apparently DU is playing here next season.

Hmm considering BC played two at Denver this year, possibly part of a BC/BU weekend?

If Jerry wins another one would he 'leave on a high note'?, you never know.

No idea what Parker's contract status is, but I'm pretty sure York signed an extension this year...