What's new
By:
USCHO Fan Forum

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.

Biden v Dump 1: If not now, when? If not us, who?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Another plot to Kill Biden? Sure looks like it. Oh, and a pedophile to boot. Do republicans have anything new to add? I didn't think so. But please point out to me all of the left wing plots that have been unearthed to kill trump or Pence. Please point out to me all of the left wing terrorism aimed at intimidating voters to vote only for Biden and Democrats. Please point out to me all of the unarmed black men who are somehow shooting all those cops. Please, point out to me even one thing that verifies your constant refrain of "both sides" and "what about...?" when it comes to violence, terrorism or threats of assassination of your orange overlord.
 
unofan said:
https://www.npr.org/2020/10/23/9262...ts-be-counted-see-states-processing-timelines

Good summary on when early votes will be counted.

tl;dr: PA and WI are the only swing states that prohibit processing prior to election day, so most early votes will be tallied that night. There will still be stragglers, especially in states that count ballots received late that were postmarked on time, but there's a decent shot we'll know who won that night.
Click to expand...

Yeah I've been wondering about that. Early on when it looked like so much of the vote would be mail-in, I could see there being a larger percentage of votes coming in late, drawing out the tabulation process. Now, though, that soooo many votes, be they in-person or mail, have been early, I would expect that to be diminished significantly. Not completely diminished, but not as huge as we were expecting. And while a lot of states, as you mention, don't start counting the early votes early, that would be the case whether they were early or day-off, so we're not worse off because of that. (Of course we have to count with good ole-fashioned other ways of screwing with the vote, so I'm not assuming anything yet.)
 
French Rage said:
I like how Trump didn't get Biden's Lincoln quip. He's too stupid too insult, sort of like Flaggy but fingering by his uncle slightly less.
Click to expand...

Well, his kids were too stupid to be charged with knowingly violating the law, so...apples and trees.
 
So here is what I got out of watching that last night:

1) Trump was able to hold back for about 10-15 minutes and was even pretending to be polite to try and change his image. It was working too...but as soon as he went off the rails its a [bleep] show. Once he started going to Moscow for his talking points it was same as it ever was. I think those of us watching did a good job highlighting his stupidity in real time but there was more. Even in an altered state I had a hard time following his leaps in logic. Usually if you step back you can at least find what he is trying to say but doesnt have the education or just intelligence to say it right...but even that was a struggle as the night went on. You can tell there were areas he wasn't prepped on because he twisted it into a talk about immigration or taxes or Hunter Biden and so on. I think he landed a few good jabs, but they got repetitive fast. Ultimately even though he was better, he still didn't talk about anything he has done nearly enough and he never gave any real indication what he plans to do in the future outside "boom the economy" how we are "rounding the corner" on COVID. No plans for Infrastructure, the Environment, helping the Middle Class, Race Relations...just bluster about how great he is and how Joe Biden hates everyone and his plans will cause a depression. Seemed to want to convince us that in 2016 we were days away from war with North Korea and he stopped it...which was news to literally everyone. (Wag the Dog is a satire...not something you strive for) No closing statement really just a stump speech.

2) Joe Biden was fine, at times good but never really consistent. Went back to the well of the first debate too much and it didn't land as well when he did. Did actually answer the questions for the most part and was able to talk about his plans which is why he ultimately "won" the debate. Would have been in trouble though had Trump not gone personal. The second Trump went Sean Hannity on it Joe took the bait rather quickly which scared me. Joe didn't attack the Trumps though just Donald which calmed me. My big worry was Joe would look petty and turn people off if he did that. Instead he got angry which got him focused. Sort of like when a star athlete is have a rather lazy game and someone cheap shots them and it gets them mad and they start taking things seriously. Angry Joe crushed for about 30 minutes. Sounded much less rehearsed and took some great shots at Trump that all landed. Some were snarky (like the Abraham Lincoln one which was brilliant) but most were on policy and inaction and were legit. He didn't dodge the Hunter crap he just kept denying it and didnt let it overshadow what Trump was trying to pivot away from. Admitted mistakes of the past and made sure to call out the GOP about inaction in the past and now when Trump blamed him and Pelosi. By the end he was getting tired though and it showed. He stuttered more and lost his way a bit. Wore himself out getting angry. Closing argument was lightyears better than Trump's as he talked about what he would actually do not how great he is and how the GOP are evil. I know the Oil situation has a lot of people worried but he clarified it when given the chance on follow up. (reduce over time, ending on federal land)

3) I think the moderator sucked for the first half, but got way better the second half. She let both of them walk over her sometimes in an effort to be fair and it made the early questions go on for-ev-er! She let them "respond" for too long and even when she would say "10 seconds and move on" it felt like they talked for a minute. As time went on though she got much better about it which is why you can see Trump get frustrated. By about the halfway point she stopped the unlimited retorts and started to move on, especially when he started going Hunter Biden again, and Trump started going Alec Baldwin more often. (by the end he was a parody of the actual parody) I dont know if she was told to be polite for the first half and just got sick of all the bickering or what but by the end she was keeping them on track more often which made it better. I wish I would have been able to see her face when Trump said he was the least racist person in the room...since she is a WOC. (man that ticked Van Jones off) She asked good questions and some great follow up questions which meant she blew Chris Wallace out of the water.

Grades:

Trump: C. Did the bare minimum to pass. Stayed on topic long enough to pass the assignment but not well enough to earn a better grade. I know some pundits (and even I) are saying it was his best debate but even his defenders are often admitting he didnt talk about the good he has done or any policy he has nearly enough and he epically failed the Health Care portion of the debate and the COVID portion. Went to the conspiracy theory too often and there is no way that helped him win new voters. All he did was shore up his base. His belief they are winning the House back shows he was off his rocker though and made Joe laugh. (my gf and I were gut laughing at that one) Outright lied so often though I bet fact checkers need a day long nap.

Biden: B. Too rehearsed at first and it didnt land. Seemed off until he got angry and then he was on point. Handled the Hunter stuff well and went back to just reacting with humor to Trump but always had a retort. Only real gaffe was the Oil question but I dont think it was as bad as some think unless he for some reason needs Texas to win. Spoke about others more than himself and definitely touted his plan and loved pointing out Trump had no plan. Ultimately his talking of uniting sounds even better compared to Trump who spent the whole time dividing.

Moderator: B. She got her groove about halfway through and saved what was looking like a trainwreck in waiting. She will be better in the future.

If this was debate 1 Trump would be dancing in the streets. His numbers would be way better and he might have a better chance. The problem is we have almost 50 million people who have already voted and he has a lot of embarrassment coming up the next few days (Rudy, 60 minutes plus whatever stupid thing he does today cause he just has too) on top of the daily October surprises that dog him. His rebuttal of all that (Hunter's Partner saying he is working with the FBI) has already been declawed by the [bleep] show that is the Wall Street Journal News Department (arguing with their own Op-Ed mind you...and seemingly agreeing with NPR) saying there is nothing to any of this. He might have shored up his base a bit which might stop the bleeding at this point but it is probably too little too late. Because most of what he said during the debate is the exact same crap he says every day at his rallies so it never hits. While I think the CNN Undecideds and polling are a bit over representing the issue they do show what I think is ultimately his big issue...if you went into this debate not knowing who to vote for he did nothing to show you why you should vote for him. He took a debate that was ultimately a referendum on his 4 years and never said what he did well in specifics outside of the criminal justice reform. Admitted they are ending the ACA despite the Senate GOP saying they werent in defense of confirming ACB. Spent too much time on conspiracy theories that are polling awful with the non Trumpers. Acted like he was the non-politician when he has been President for 4 years. Takes zero responsibility for anything. Biden was smart and owned mistakes of the past. Biden spoke of policy and made sure to remind the voters Trump has been the one in control and he did nothing to help with COVID or to secure our elections and all he cares about is the stock market which helps no one. Biden looked like a guy running for office, Trump looked lie a guy trying to be a pundit on OANN or Faux. while that works for the people voting for you why would Joe Schmo care? That is why most of the undecideds on CNN went Biden and the rest stayed undecided. (majority went to Joe though which proves the strategy is stupid) And there is no way a woman watched and is flipping to Trump at this point...

And I will admit...CNN pre and post did a good job. They ignored the shiny object (Hunter's Partner) and even when they were trying to make Trump sound like he did well they really tore into the conspiracy BS and gave it almost no light. Tapper especially really seemed angry it got mentioned and made a point to call it out and warn people about what was coming. Vann Jones went back to being the man I liked until he sold out and really skewered Trump over his takes. Santorum spun but admitted Trump didnt talk about any accomplishments and completely flubbed on Health Care. I think Anderson Cooper wanted to scream expletives at one point he was so annoyed at Trump clips. Daniel Dale is a saint.
 
Last edited:
President Trump holds a three-point lead over Democrat Joe Biden in Florida, a state that’s critical to whether or not the president is reelected.

A new Rasmussen Reports telephone and online survey of Likely Voters in Florida finds Trump beating Biden 49% to 46%. Three percent (3%) like some other candidate, and another three percent (3%) are undecided. (To see survey question wording, click here.)

Factor in those who haven’t made up their minds yet but are leaning toward one candidate or the other, and Trump gains another point, besting Biden 50% to 46%.
 
Flo(R)ida is a must win for Trump. Without it he is toast. Biden only needs it if Trump holds all the states he took from Hillary IIRC.

Rass is a heavy Right poll so I would guess it is actually roughly about what it was in 2016 where Hillary lost by a little over 1%. Biden is doing bad with Cubans but better than Hillary with the AARP crowd.
 
St. Clown said:
Too bad there’s not a third debate. The crew could put it on sliders and let the entertainment just happen.
Click to expand...

Another half hour they might not have had too...he is so out of shape he would have fallen over on his own. Whoever picks out his suits does not hide his girth well.

I forgot to say, the best thing Joe did last night was debunk the "The Dems will shut down the country BS". Even when it was followed up on his answers were great. He doesn't want to shut anything down but without the resources to combat the virus sooner or later you have to do what is safe. Then made sure on a couple of occasions to remind everyone that there has been bills put forth by the Dems and that the Senate is sitting on them.

Even though this example I believe was on another topic it is a good example of how Joe played that game:

Trump: why didn't you get it done Joe when you were Vice President?
Moderator: we need to move on...
Biden: I have a quick answer for that...
Moderator: Ok ten seconds then moving on..
Biden: Congress
(long pause as everyone waits for him to keep going)
Biden: THATS IT!

Simple quick and to the point.

Trump's strategy seemed to be to paint Biden as corrupt and a "Do Nothing". The corrupt part fell flat outside his base and since it seems Biden has wide support BECAUSE he has been in office forever not sure trying to highlight that was a sound plan. Hell outside of "who built the cages Joe?" he really didn't have anything to point to about the previous administration (other GOPers would have done much better here) so he went back to a crime bill from 1994 and made it seem like Blacks are abandoning Joe because they "remember". (methinks that is the next GRU tactic...use the 94 Crime Bill to sow distrust amongst Blacks) That made zero sense especially since Biden won the Dem nomination because of widespread support amongst Southern Blacks.

The LOL moment of the night though is still Trump saying Kamala Harris is more liberal than Bernie Sanders. I mean...yikes! I wont lie, I wish Harris was there debating him because my god she would have cleaned his clock. Hell anyone under the age of 60 would have made Trump look like a drooling monkey. Biden was too old to really jump on Trump's idiocy sometimes and Trump was leaving doors WIDE OPEN. The "He forgot who he is running against...I am Joe Biden I beat all those other candidates" was a great response to his being a puppet of the Far Left though and there is no way anyone with a functioning brain woud hear what Biden said and think he is a raving Socialist. Adding the Public option to ObamaCare and calling it BidenCare was smart too. People dont want repeal and replace they want ObamaCare beefed up.

What is killing Trump...and will be seen as the difference this time to last time if he loses (since they are note for note running the same playbook) is that most people like Biden even if they dont always agree with them. He is a likeable person who people trust is at least attempting to do the right thing and who isnt faking it when he cares. Hillary was never like that. She is cold and everything fairly or unfairly looked calculated fake. She could speak to a high level on policy and how to play the game but she sucked at actually playing it. Biden is unpolished and old but you get the feeling if he could he would hug the entire country and tell us all we are gonna be ok we just have to keep trying.
 
Last edited:
Handyman said:
Flo(R)ida is a must win for Trump. Without it he is toast. Biden only needs it if Trump holds all the states he took from Hillary IIRC.

Rass is a heavy Right poll so I would guess it is actually roughly about what it was in 2016 where Hillary lost by a little over 1%. Biden is doing bad with Cubans but better than Hillary with the AARP crowd.
Click to expand...

538 adjusts the Rasmussen poll 5% towards the D. (Just like they adjust liberal polls the other way based on statistical history.)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top