Atlantic Hockey Adds to Scholarship Limit, Mulls Expansion

[5hole]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Adds to Scholarship Limit, Mulls Expansion

Perhaps you need to re-read my statement. I am aware of the lack of profits in most D1 sports which is why I never mentioned anything about creating a profit. I was talking about creating some sort of revenue stream that could offset those minimum costs that it takes to run the program. I would think that the difference between 150 per game and 1150 per game would mean about $150-200K in revenue. Perhaps that would be nothing more than an offset against increased costs but playing in front of even that many fans would, I think, be a morale boost to those student athletes ... not to mention increasing the prestige of the AHA as a conference (note: I have heard plenty of comments from players and their parents about some of the AHA "dumps").

Apparently, all ADs agree that the incremental costs of improving the program by making it more competitive on the ice, with real fans (and I am not saying it needs to be of the magnitude of a UW, UM, etc.) and a real arena is beyond their respective capabilities. I was not aware of this unanimity among AD's approach toward growing programs and making improvements so appreciate the update.

To answer your final point; the fact that these schools decided to spend any money at all, and not simply fold their programs, is evidence that they are trying. In fact, every single AHA program (that offers scholarships) has increased their scholarship support since the league was created. Trying to provide an opportunity for their student atheltes to compete on the ice is evidenece of "trying". Maybe not to the degree that makes you happy, but it is an effort.

Throwing the least amount of money they can at a program is "trying" - trying to keep it alive, but that is it. And you are wrong about every school increasing their scholie support ... when Niagara entered AHA, to comply with conference rules, they had to decrease their scholarship support, going down from 17-18 to 12. So, unfortunately, this was detrimental to "trying to provide an opportunity for their student athletes."

Fairfield, Iona, Wayne State...those schools are not even trying.

True enough, they are no longer trying ... but they did try for awhile by putting in minimal effort and dollars. To me, that is the proof of what eventually happens to schools that take that approach.

 

[davyd83]

Was Robert Morris in a conference not long ago with Bemdji and UAH in the CHA?

Did they offer 18 scholies in the CHA?

PA is growing college hockey market as they hosted last season National Championship and this years.

Penn State has upgraded its program from club to D1 and has a new facility.

PA teams Robert Morris and Mercyhurst would be perfect fit in the WCHA.

No they wouldn't. The league already has stretched travel budgets. Adding second day bus trips for NMU, Michigan Tech and Mankato, plus a flight for Bemidji while benefitting only Bowling Green and Huntsville makes no sense. The effect would be negligible on Ferris and the Alaskas. Just because Bemidji played Robert Morris in the old CHA days doesn't make the trip a nickel less expensive. Also, that would have Bemidji flying to PA every year instead of every other year. Just because Tech and NMU played Mercyhurst in the GLIAC doesn't make that less expensive either. And do either Mercyhurst or Robert Morris wish to take on the added expense of WCHA travel? Yes, they may have looked into the CCHA at one point, but there are plenty of reasons they never applied nor were they invited to join. The talks never got beyond the exploratory stage.

 

[CornwallAce]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Adds to Scholarship Limit, Mulls Expansion

There's not a single program that would turn down a phat bequest from an alum, and say, "No, no, thank you. We are happy playing in a community rink. We'll just stay here."

That's what I would have thought!!!

 

[davyd83]

More teams would reduce travel.

Teams wouldn't have to go to Alaska as much with 12 teams.
Travel partners could be formed.
UAA/Alaska, Bemdji/Mankato, MTU/NMU, LSSU/FSU,BG/UAH,RMU/Mercyhurst

The WCHA is not a bus league.



Teams could travel together to Alaska to reduce costs.

The Alaska schools and Huntsville pay the travel differential costs. Each Alaska school will still have 14 home games. So six teams would still visit each Alaska school. How will they "travel together?" Will Tech bus to Marquette and try to cram another 25 or 27 people on those 54 seat planes? Will Huntsville and BG meet in Louisville to fly to Alaska? That part makes no sense. How are the 12 hours NMU or Tech spends in transit any different than 13 or 14 on a bus to Pittsburgh or Erie? The bus trip to PA would be longer for Mankato than their travel time to AK. Now lets figure the additional travel for Robert Morris & Mercyhurst. Currently they fly to Air Force every other year, and their longest bus trip is under 8 hours. If they move to the WCHA, other than Bowling Green, Ferris would be about equal to their current longest trip and everything else is second day bussing or a flight. Where do Robert Morris and Mercyhurst get the funds to increase their travel budgets by at least 50% ? Instead of 3 1/2 hour trips to Buffalo, they can go 13 to Marquette or 15 to Houghton in February! Brilliant!

 

[schiegs]

Was Robert Morris in a conference not long ago with Bemdji and UAH in the CHA?

Did they offer 18 scholies in the CHA?

I'm not sure using a perfect example of a failed conference model is a compelling argument.

 

[TigerFan86-87]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Adds to Scholarship Limit, Mulls Expansion

Currently they fly to Air Force every other year...

Actually, RMU and MU travel to AFA every season, for one game one year and two games the other. The former "Eastern Pod" teams travel there every other year. Of course until the find a replacement for UConn, the scheduling will all change next year anyhow.

 

[davyd83]

Actually, RMU and MU travel to AFA every season, for one game one year and two games the other. The former "Eastern Pod" teams travel there every other year. Of course until the find a replacement for UConn, the scheduling will all change next year anyhow.

Flying to AFA for one game is a huge waste of money. Does Air Force absorb any of the travel expense?

 

[LtPowers]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Adds to Scholarship Limit, Mulls Expansion

Was Robert Morris in a conference not long ago with Bemdji and UAH in the CHA?

Did they offer 18 scholies in the CHA?

PA is growing college hockey market as they hosted last season National Championship and this years.

Penn State has upgraded its program from club to D1 and has a new facility.

PA teams Robert Morris and Mercyhurst would be perfect fit in the WCHA.

NONE of which is actually evidence that Robert Morris would be interested in leaving the AHA. For crying out loud. I'm starting to see why your rep is red.


Powers &8^]

 

[Star2City]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Adds to Scholarship Limit, Mulls Expansion

Florida Tech in Melbourne has added a number of athletic teams lately (M/W lacrosse squads, football) and this article implies elevating its ACHA hockey club team to varsity. Would the AHA ever consider a southern division (like Navy, Liberty, East Carolina, NC State, Kennesaw St, FGCU, FIT ?)

http://activities.fit.edu/crimsons/index.php/2013/08/florida-tech-doubles-number-of-varsity-sports-under-catanese/

With the addition of so many new programs in such a short period of time, it’s easy to wonder whether or not Florida Tech has any more room left on campus for new sports teams.

Panther fans should be pleased to know that Catanese is not done expanding the university’s athletics program just yet.

“’Sand’ volleyball,” Catanese said with a laugh. “The Midwesterners wouldn’t let us call it beach volleyball, but there are a couple in the wings that we’re still talking about.”

He also discussed the possibilities of hockey and surfing, both only club sports as of right now, being future additions to the program down the road.

“We’re not done yet,” he concluded. “I think we can add some more.

 

[davyd83]

Same reason Western Michigan University. And Miami Ohio joined the NCHC.

Teams are close to Kalmazoo and Oxford as Denver, Colorado Springs, Grand Forks, St Cloud, Duluth and Omaha are only a bus ride away, brilliant.

You didn't address any of the points made in the post. No one said travel was good in the NCHC. Why would a lesser funded league wish to make the same mistakes?

 

[kingdobbs]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Adds to Scholarship Limit, Mulls Expansion

Same reason Western Michigan University. And Miami Ohio joined the NCHC.

Teams are close to Kalmazoo and Oxford as Denver, Colorado Springs, Grand Forks, St Cloud, Duluth and Omaha are only a bus ride away, brilliant.

Yes, but in the case of the NCHC, that league actually has a chance of being the top league in the country on a yearly basis. Teams in that league stand a pretty decent chance of making the tournament as an at-large with a high seed, and the top teams in that league are going to be likely candidates to make Frozen Fours and win championships. Most, if not all, of the teams in the league are teams that can weather bad years in terms of fan interest and revenue. There's a pretty solid reward for taking the risk of having a huge travel budget.

Where's the payoff for any "AHA West" teams in joining the WCHA or forming a "best of Atlantic Hockey" league on their own? They won't be joining, or creating, a league that has any hope of being better than fourth from year to year*; they won't be joining, or creating, a league that will be getting a big revenue boost from televising their games; they won't be joining, or creating, a league that has any chance of creating better regional rivalry than would already exist.

The risk might be worth it if the reward were there. What we aren't seeing, right now, is any indication that for the "AHA West" the reward *will* be there. Maybe things will change in time.

*To wit, I don't think anyone really knows for sure how the nWCHA will fare on the national scene; it's certainly plausible that some teams may thrive in the weaker environment and it becomes a consistent two-bidder, but that's about where I'd put their ceiling. I think it will be exciting to see who emerges as leading programs in the league, and I have my suspicions that it will be rather unpredictable from year to year.

 

[5hole]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Adds to Scholarship Limit, Mulls Expansion

I am not sure there is anything to this discussion other than speculation. There is a much more realistic possibility than the two PA schools leaving for WCHA. If the AHA fails to make significant improvement in scholarship limits along with improving arena situations and overall programs by at least two or three schools, it would be more likely to see the talks among AHA4 and BGSU reignite.

IIRC, at the time all the realignment was settling, BGSU was the final team to jump in because they were seriously considering trying to put something together with the AHA4. The problem was that there was not a solid sixth team ... Ferris had already committed to WCHA, UAH was not an acceptable choice (remember, the existence of their program was in jeopardy and the AHA4 teams were not thrilled with UAH's arena situation), RIT was and still is waiting for that elusive ECAC invite and the talk of UB going D1 was not coming together. With time running out, BGSU had to pull the trigger for WCHA. That does not mean they are particularly thrilled and if the circumstances are right, we could still see a Great Lakes type conference of the AHA4 along with BGSU and Ferris, especially if they could find one or two more solid schools, e.g., UB goes D1 (maybe someday) or the unlikely event that RIT gets tired of waiting for that ECAC invite. Since there is safety in numbers and six is not as safe as these schools would like, I would not anticipate anything happening until triggered by an outside event. My belief is that the talks among those four schools and BGSU, and I believe FSU, are not totally dead, that there is still communication ongoing from time to time - very back burner but I believe it is there.

 

[LtPowers]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Adds to Scholarship Limit, Mulls Expansion

There is a lot more keeping RIT in the AHA besides waiting for an ECAC invite. That doesn't mean they wouldn't jump at the chance to join the ECAC; so would Niagara. But it does mean that simply getting "tired of waiting" probably wouldn't be enough to prompt RIT to look to some other full-scholarship league.


Powers &8^]

 

[schiegs]

Wanting 18 scholies and looking into keeping the CCHA alive is evidence to me.

"Wanting" = evidence?

 

[schiegs]

I am not sure there is anything to this discussion other than speculation.

Thank you.

If the AHA fails to make significant improvement in scholarship limits.

From the recent increase to 14 scholarships, what would you consider "significant"? 4?

 

[RSTuthill]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Adds to Scholarship Limit, Mulls Expansion

RIT would get an invite to the ECAC only if RPI decides to leave I would think. And that could happen only if BC, ND, or UConn went to the B1G although HE would also consider QU. Could happen, but probably not likely. There are other possibilities, but their probabilities are vanishingly small. If RPI did leave the ECAC, RIT would be the natural choice although HC might be in the running.

 

[THEMICK]

RIT would get an invite to the ECAC only if RPI decides to leave I would think. And that could happen only if BC, ND, or UConn went to the B1G although HE would also consider QU. Could happen, but probably not likely. There are other possibilities, but their probabilities are vanishingly small. If RPI did leave the ECAC, RIT would be the natural choice although HC might be in the running.

The bottom line is at least five of the remaining eleven AHA schools would leave if the opportunity presented itself. Whether that happens remains to be seen but for the other schools to think the AHA status quo is a likely scenario for the future is a mistake. I appreciate some of the posters on this board want to believe everything will turn out the best for their school but to think so in light of what is going on throughout college athletics might prove to be wishful thinking.

 

[schiegs]

The bottom line is at least five of the remaining eleven AHA schools would leave if the opportunity presented itself. .

What are the six schools you propose would turn down an invite to another conference?

 

[5hole]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Adds to Scholarship Limit, Mulls Expansion

Thank you.

From the recent increase to 14 scholarships, what would you consider "significant"? 4?

Well, at least two more total to get to 16. That was just one of the criteria I mentioned that needs to be improved ... but a critical piece.

What are the six schools you propose would turn down an invite to another conference?

I'll take a stab at that for The Mick ... I am guessing that he is talking about the widely speculated AHA4 and RIT as those who would be willing to move under the right circumstances. HC could easily be added to that for an invite to ECAC. Though AFA wants to hang with Army, it is not inconceivable that they would move to a western conference (although not likely). That leaves four rather than six - and those remaining four would not likely have an opportunity to turn down anyone!

 

[kingdobbs]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Adds to Scholarship Limit, Mulls Expansion

I'll take a stab at that for The Mick ... I am guessing that he is talking about the widely speculated AHA4 and RIT as those who would be willing to move under the right circumstances. HC could easily be added to that for an invite to ECAC. Though AFA wants to hang with Army, it is not inconceivable that they would move to a western conference (although not likely). That leaves four rather than six - and those remaining four would not likely have an opportunity to turn down anyone!

"Would not get an offer" is not the same as "would not accept an offer".