Atlantic Hockey Adds to Scholarship Limit, Mulls Expansion

[LtPowers]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Adds to Scholarship Limit, Mulls Expansion

18 scholarships.

I've seen no indication of that. All I've heard is that RoMo was interested in AHA when it started its program, at a time when AHA had even fewer scholies than they have now. If scholarships were a big issue for them, why would they have been looking at AHA?


Powers &8^]

 

[schiegs]

I've seen no indication of that. All I've heard is that RoMo was interested in AHA when it started its program, at a time when AHA had even fewer scholies than they have now. If scholarships were a big issue for them, why would they have been looking at AHA?


Powers &8^]

Correct. RMU's original wishes were to join AHA, but they agreed to join CHA in order to help stave off (the inevitable) collapse. That was the 12 scholarship, dumpy arena, AHA. Not sure why some people think they are now so eager to leave.

 

[Pink Pony]

I've seen no indication of that. All I've heard is that RoMo was interested in AHA when it started its program, at a time when AHA had even fewer scholies than they have now. If scholarships were a big issue for them, why would they have been looking at AHA?


Powers &8^]

Robert Morris was one of the teams intrested in keeping the CCHA alive.

Which had 18 scholies.

 

[LtPowers]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Adds to Scholarship Limit, Mulls Expansion

Robert Morris was one of the teams intrested in keeping the CCHA alive.

Which had 18 scholies.

They looked into it. Their level of interest is debatable. And they didn't go through with it.


Powers &8^]

 

[Pink Pony]

They looked into it. Their level of interest is debatable. And they didn't go through with it.


Powers &8^]

My understanding is Robert Morris was part of the AHA4 looking into 18 scholies and keeping the CCHA alive during realignment.

 

[schiegs]

My understanding is Robert Morris was part of the AHA4 looking into 18 scholies and keeping the CCHA alive during realignment.

I looked into buying a share of an airplane once. When I added up the numbers, I realized it made zero sense. I do not go around saying "I really think I may buy an airplane, and almost did once."

 

[THEMICK]

I looked into buying a share of an airplane once. When I added up the numbers, I realized it made zero sense. I do not go around saying "I really think I may buy an airplane, and almost did once."

I don't know what school affiliation you and LtPowers have, but why are you in such denial. In a world where the college landscape is changing, and schools are looking for greater visibility and greater revenues why do you subscribe to the notion the way the eastern bloc of the AHA wants it is the accepted standard and those who look elsewhere, ie. all the other schools who play college hockey, are out of touch. May be, just may be some schools want to fill their arenas, want to play more OOC games, want to appear on regional or national TV. Then there are others who are just happy to say they compete in D-1 hockey in name alone, in community rinks in front of a hand full of friends and relatives, with no real exposure. It might work for your school but don't think other institutions don't have higher aspirations. Just because the AHA4 couldn't put it together two years ago doesn't mean they won't try again in the future.

 

[LtPowers]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Adds to Scholarship Limit, Mulls Expansion

Just because the AHA4 couldn't put it together two years ago doesn't mean they won't try again in the future.

Very true, but irrelevant, since no one is saying "There's no way Robert Morris wants to increase to 18 scholarships". What's more relevant is this: just because they investigated it once doesn't mean they're champing at the bit to get out of the AHA so they can increase scholarships, which is exactly what Pink Pony is claiming.


Powers &8^]

 

[schiegs]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Adds to Scholarship Limit, Mulls Expansion

I don't know what school affiliation you and LtPowers have, but why are you in such denial. In a world where the college landscape is changing, and schools are looking for greater visibility and greater revenues why do you subscribe to the notion the way the eastern bloc of the AHA wants it is the accepted standard and those who look elsewhere, ie. all the other schools who play college hockey, are out of touch. May be, just may be some schools want to fill their arenas, want to play more OOC games, want to appear on regional or national TV. Then there are others who are just happy to say they compete in D-1 hockey in name alone, in community rinks in front of a hand full of friends and relatives, with no real exposure. It might work for your school but don't think other institutions don't have higher aspirations. Just because the AHA4 couldn't put it together two years ago doesn't mean they won't try again in the future.

Wrong on several accounts. There is not a single program in AHA that is "just happy to say they are in D-1 in name alone, in community rinks in front of friends and relatives, with no real exposure." Where do you come up with this assertion? There are, however several programs who are prgamatic enough to recognize the resources they have, and do everything they can to make the most of those resources. There's not a single program that would turn down a phat bequest from an alum, and say, "No, no, thank you. We are happy playing in a community rink. We'll just stay here." (And don't get me started on the pedestrian notion that most people on this board seem to have that all these schools are sitting on huge sums of cash, and make unilateral decisions as to where money gets spent. Donors have their hands on that rudder.)

The fact is the schools to which you refer are basically the founding members of this conference. They started this conference on the premise that costs would be contained in order to allow each program the chance to compete and build over time. As the conference grew, and ALL schools could still compete, the scholarship limit has been (and likely will be) raised over time. Do schools take a look at the landscape from time-to-time? Sure! Do some make a change? Of course. That's great progress, as it demonstrates yet another value of the league as an incubator.

But this incessant drumbeat of "these schools are better than those schools" and "we really deserve to be elsewhere" demonstrates one of two things:
1.) It is really just a bunch of fans on a message board who have no real knowledge of the programs for which they speak.
2.) Those programs are led by people who made a REALLY dumb decision in choosing an athletic conference for their hockey programs.

If the Ritz Carlton won't let you in the door, don't gripe about the Holiday Inn. You could have ended up sleeping in your car.

Wayne State called. They have some used equipment for sale.

 

[kingdobbs]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Adds to Scholarship Limit, Mulls Expansion

I don't know what school affiliation you and LtPowers have, but why are you in such denial. In a world where the college landscape is changing, and schools are looking for greater visibility and greater revenues why do you subscribe to the notion the way the eastern bloc of the AHA wants it is the accepted standard and those who look elsewhere, ie. all the other schools who play college hockey, are out of touch. May be, just may be some schools want to fill their arenas, want to play more OOC games, want to appear on regional or national TV. Then there are others who are just happy to say they compete in D-1 hockey in name alone, in community rinks in front of a hand full of friends and relatives, with no real exposure. It might work for your school but don't think other institutions don't have higher aspirations. Just because the AHA4 couldn't put it together two years ago doesn't mean they won't try again in the future.

Nobody is doubting anyone's commitment to playing full scholarship hockey.

People *are* doubting that "playing full scholarship hockey" is an overriding concern, and will trump all others to be the sole determining factor in any particular school's future conference alignments. Especially since we already have at least one piece of empirical evidence to the contrary. Whatever was said in those discussions, it is clear that at least one school decided against the plan altogether (and without further subjective assumptions, we can assert only that there was a 4/6 chance of one of the AHA-4 being that school, and a 1/6 chance that it was any specific school in the discussion).

In other words, just because they sat down to talk doesn't mean they automatically have one foot out the door. Realistically, this past season showed that with a good *performance* in out of conference games, even a mediocre one in-league can do good things; Robert Morris was two pairwise comparisons (and basically one win) away from being an at-large candidate, despite finishing fifth in league (only two wins above .500). So...the argument that the low end of the league is a drag on teams' PWR is...a hollow argument at best.

 

[5hole]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Adds to Scholarship Limit, Mulls Expansion

Really? I for one am doubting several schools commitment to playing full scholie and to upping the overall quality of their programs. How else can you view the situation when one team, for example, has been playing D-1 back to the pre-MAAC days and have essentially made no progress on the ice (about 25% winning percentage), in attendance figures (essentially drawing players family members) or in their arena situation (still in community rinks)? And through the many years has continued to vote against scholie increases? And no coaching change? How serious can they be?

 

[schiegs]

Really? I for one am doubting several schools commitment to playing full scholie and to upping the overall quality of their programs. How else can you view the situation when one team, for example, has been playing D-1 back to the pre-MAAC days and have essentially made no progress on the ice (about 25% winning percentage), in attendance figures (essentially drawing players family members) or in their arena situation (still in community rinks)? And through the many years has continued to vote against scholie increases? And no coaching change? How serious can they be?

"So yes, let's join THAT conference!"

 

[5hole]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Adds to Scholarship Limit, Mulls Expansion

Sigh. Yeah, right, "let's join THAT conference" ... only out of necessity. Our school was and, I believe, still is ready to "upgrade" - somehow. Whether that means working to improve their current situation (yes, pulling up the dregs) or finding a new home which only happens with cooperation of other schools, but please do not act as if we are going to (or staying in) THAT conference as if we had a choice.

FYI, Niagara had limited options ... go indy or join AHA. The call was made by our former AD. Perhaps it was the right call, perhaps not - we will never know the course of Niagara hockey had we gone indy.

Hey, about that Wayne State equipment ... seems to me that it is not the AHA4 that needs to call them. Give that number to the dregs.

 

[Pink Pony]

Really? I for one am doubting several schools commitment to playing full scholie and to upping the overall quality of their programs. How else can you view the situation when one team, for example, has been playing D-1 back to the pre-MAAC days and have essentially made no progress on the ice (about 25% winning percentage), in attendance figures (essentially drawing players family members) or in their arena situation (still in community rinks)? And through the many years has continued to vote against scholie increases? And no coaching change? How serious can they be?

Why wouldn't. A team not want to upgrade the hockey program?

Butler played in three conferences in three years in basketball.

Every school needs national recognition.

Then the money will flow from alumni towards the program.

 

[THEMICK]

My point is simple, it is naive to think that some members in the AHA wouldn't leave if a better opportunity emerged. History has demonstrated at least five have explored that possibility in recent years and one the five, UConn is leaving. For some it might be the issue of scholarships, others, filling their rink or others, media exposure. It is not about looking down at others but looking out for the best interest of their institution. Why not read recent stories on the impact of basketball has had on Butler or more importantly Robert Morris. I appreciate that years ago a group of schools got together to form a limited expenses league, the problem is, in a sports world driven by revenue and exposure that concept might no longer be sustainable. Just because a lot of stars aligned right this past year putting two schools in the NCAA's and one almost, doesn't mean it is likely to happen again. I don't know what changes there will be in college hockey over the next couple of years, but there will be changes and to suggest the AHA won't have to adapt is very misguided.

 

[Pink Pony]

My point is simple, it is naive to think that some members in the AHA wouldn't leave .

Yes

 

[LtPowers]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Adds to Scholarship Limit, Mulls Expansion

Why wouldn't. A team not want to upgrade the hockey program?

Assuming your double negative is unintentional: Because it costs money.


Powers &8^]

 

[5hole]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Adds to Scholarship Limit, Mulls Expansion

or, to finish that thought about "it costs money" ... I think there is a saying that "it takes money to make money." Perhaps some programs see an upside to investing a bit more. Those programs that are content with absorbing all the costs of D-1 hockey while perhaps skimping on the edges, aka cost containment, have practically no revenues. How much money can they make after renting the community arena to play in front of 150 people, most of whom are there on comps ...?? Other teams may feel that it is worth the extra money to play at a higher level, as it will result in increased attendance and revenues. It takes some time and some effort to build a successful program. I just do not see where some of these AHA schools are even trying.

 

[MCgrad07]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Adds to Scholarship Limit, Mulls Expansion

I wonder if Air Force would ever jump to the WCHA? Also if they stay I hope St. Anslem takes U Conn spot

 

[schiegs]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Adds to Scholarship Limit, Mulls Expansion

or, to finish that thought about "it costs money" ... I think there is a saying that "it takes money to make money." Perhaps some programs see an upside to investing a bit more. Those programs that are content with absorbing all the costs of D-1 hockey while perhaps skimping on the edges, aka cost containment, have practically no revenues. How much money can they make after renting the community arena to play in front of 150 people, most of whom are there on comps ...?? Other teams may feel that it is worth the extra money to play at a higher level, as it will result in increased attendance and revenues. It takes some time and some effort to build a successful program. I just do not see where some of these AHA schools are even trying.

Almost no one turns a profit in college athletics. This has been studied and written about over and over again. In a recent New York Times article, studies were quoted that showed only the top half of D1-FBS institutions turn any profit on atheltics, and the vast majority of that was as flagship state universities. Furthermore, almost all of it comes from football. Basketball is a very distant second. So the idea that an AD is going to treat college hockey as some sort of profitable business enterprise is a non sequitur. Financially speaking, spending more money on hockey means little more than spending more money. There is no curve of increasing returns. ADs know this.

Are there other non-financial reasons to spend more money on athletics? Of course, but they have nothing to do with your statement.

To answer your final point; the fact that these schools decided to spend any money at all, and not simply fold their programs, is evidence that they are trying. In fact, every single AHA program (that offers scholarships) has increased their scholarship support since the league was created. Trying to provide an opportunity for their student atheltes to compete on the ice is evidenece of "trying". Maybe not to the degree that makes you happy, but it is an effort. Fairfield, Iona, Wayne State...those schools are not even trying.