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Atlantic Hockey Adds to Scholarship Limit, Mulls Expansion
- Thread starter schiegs
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Re: Atlantic Hockey Adds to Scholarship Limit, Mulls Expansion
The economics of this debate are plainly self evident: If cost containment were such an awful premise for a conference, and unrestrained access to scholarships as a means to sprout a new conference of relative newcomers to the sport is so genius, then the AHA would have failed a long time ago, and The CHA would still be around. Instead, we have the opposite.
Cost containment as a means to provide access while maintaing a degree of parity (therefore increasing the viability for EVERY program) has worked, and worked quite well. I further submit that the administrators of the most recent joiners were, and are, well aware of this.
QU and UConn are perfect examples of how this conference can (and does) work. Maintain access to the sport at an affordable level until an opportunity arises to invest in a higher profile conference.
But whining about the formula herein, and insisting it be changed in order to suit your desires shows either a lack of understanding of the value of this conference, or a lack of respect for the very conference your program is invested in.
The door still is, and always shall be open. But until your program gets the cojones to leave, don't tell those of us that have been here since the beginning that it needs to change.
The economics of this debate are plainly self evident: If cost containment were such an awful premise for a conference, and unrestrained access to scholarships as a means to sprout a new conference of relative newcomers to the sport is so genius, then the AHA would have failed a long time ago, and The CHA would still be around. Instead, we have the opposite.
Cost containment as a means to provide access while maintaing a degree of parity (therefore increasing the viability for EVERY program) has worked, and worked quite well. I further submit that the administrators of the most recent joiners were, and are, well aware of this.
QU and UConn are perfect examples of how this conference can (and does) work. Maintain access to the sport at an affordable level until an opportunity arises to invest in a higher profile conference.
But whining about the formula herein, and insisting it be changed in order to suit your desires shows either a lack of understanding of the value of this conference, or a lack of respect for the very conference your program is invested in.
The door still is, and always shall be open. But until your program gets the cojones to leave, don't tell those of us that have been here since the beginning that it needs to change.
Re: Atlantic Hockey Adds to Scholarship Limit, Mulls Expansion
The two Alaslka teams and Alabama Huntsville fund their opponents travel. They pay the amount in excess of a team's trip above a regular weekend among the other 7. It will cost Michigan Tech no more to go to Huntsville or Fairbanks than it will to Mankato.
The two Alaslka teams and Alabama Huntsville fund their opponents travel. They pay the amount in excess of a team's trip above a regular weekend among the other 7. It will cost Michigan Tech no more to go to Huntsville or Fairbanks than it will to Mankato.
Re: Atlantic Hockey Adds to Scholarship Limit, Mulls Expansion
The Alaskas have been doing it since they joined the WCHA and CCHA. Fairbanks never had WCHA tourney revenue. Under the current plan, UAF's expense actually will decrease. But never let the facts stand in the way of your argument.How much longer can these schools continue to do this without tv revenue ,and not getting big revenue from the final five in the WCHA as we once knew it.
Re: Atlantic Hockey Adds to Scholarship Limit, Mulls Expansion
Really?? Actually, what THEMICK said was "The bottom line is at least five of the remaining eleven AHA schools would leave if the opportunity presented itself." Your follow-up question of "What are the six schools you propose would turn down an invite to another conference?" was not at all what THEMICK said ... Where did he say that there were six schools that would turn down an invite?... Not at all what THEMICK said.
If the big picture is that rosey for the Alaska schools. How come North Dakota and Denver did not invite both Alaska schools to the NCHC?
Location and excempt games would have been a bonus for NCHC teams.
Because the NCHC wanted to be an 8 team league with schools of like minds, and budgets.
Really?? Actually, what THEMICK said was "The bottom line is at least five of the remaining eleven AHA schools would leave if the opportunity presented itself." Your follow-up question of "What are the six schools you propose would turn down an invite to another conference?" was not at all what THEMICK said ... Where did he say that there were six schools that would turn down an invite?
Okay, so ALL schools would leave given the opportunity. Then why say "five of the remaining eleven AHA schools would leave if the opportunity presented itself."? One would assume he meant there are some that wouldn't leave.
"Thank you Mr, Bertagna, we'll just stay put."
Re: Atlantic Hockey Adds to Scholarship Limit, Mulls Expansion
And they left the GLIAC because of travel. Travel and getting their taints handed to them about every weekend in most sports.Both Robert. Morris and Mercyhurst want 18 scholies.
Bowling Green and UAH needs travel partners to go north.
Robert Morris has already been in the same league as Bemdji and UAH.
Plus Mercyhurst has already been in the same league with NMU, MTU, LSSU and FSU in the GLIAC.
Re: Atlantic Hockey Adds to Scholarship Limit, Mulls Expansion
Presumably they would have to actually secure a new member first.
Powers &8^]
Has anyone heard when the new member to Atlantic Hockey will be announced or who it may be?
Presumably they would have to actually secure a new member first.
Powers &8^]
Re: Atlantic Hockey Adds to Scholarship Limit, Mulls Expansion
I think that AHA has come a good distance since the old MAAC days. I get that Niagara and its fans are disappointed that they have never been given a chance to compete in a Big 4 league. going Indy was not really much of an option, though. Just ask Huntsville how they enjoyed it. Now Niagara is in a bit better area for scheduling maybe, but once schools get into serious conference play, in February, getting a large number of them to play you is problematic at best, I suspect.
As for AHA schools wanting to leave, I have to question that. Niagara is probably the leader, followed by Mercyhurst, but I'm not convinced that Mercyhurst is all that willing outside the head coach. Probably everyone would consider it if their dream league came along with an offer. heck, UConn wasn't aggressively looking but couldn't say no when Hockey East called. Holy Cross would go to the ECAC if only to get to be seen in the company of the Ivy leaguers. Probably RIT would do that too, though to be considered equal to Colgate,Cornell, Clarkson and RPI rather than the Ivies. But I'm not sure that any of that means any of them would go to the WCHA. It's one thing to play Clarkson or Harvard all the time. It is quite another to play Alabama-Huntsville and Alaska-Fairbanks. I think only Niagara would be a sure bet to take that offer. Robert Morris is a definite maybe as is Mercyhurst.
I think that AHA has come a good distance since the old MAAC days. I get that Niagara and its fans are disappointed that they have never been given a chance to compete in a Big 4 league. going Indy was not really much of an option, though. Just ask Huntsville how they enjoyed it. Now Niagara is in a bit better area for scheduling maybe, but once schools get into serious conference play, in February, getting a large number of them to play you is problematic at best, I suspect.
As for AHA schools wanting to leave, I have to question that. Niagara is probably the leader, followed by Mercyhurst, but I'm not convinced that Mercyhurst is all that willing outside the head coach. Probably everyone would consider it if their dream league came along with an offer. heck, UConn wasn't aggressively looking but couldn't say no when Hockey East called. Holy Cross would go to the ECAC if only to get to be seen in the company of the Ivy leaguers. Probably RIT would do that too, though to be considered equal to Colgate,Cornell, Clarkson and RPI rather than the Ivies. But I'm not sure that any of that means any of them would go to the WCHA. It's one thing to play Clarkson or Harvard all the time. It is quite another to play Alabama-Huntsville and Alaska-Fairbanks. I think only Niagara would be a sure bet to take that offer. Robert Morris is a definite maybe as is Mercyhurst.
Re: Atlantic Hockey Adds to Scholarship Limit, Mulls Expansion
The AHA has come a long way and I think it is very much due to the influx of teams from the much-maligned CHA - all the schools that came over have raised the level of play significantly. It was hoped that they would pull along those schools that were part of the old MAAC. Results so far say it is very debatable.
Based on being around the Niagara program for quite a while, this is what I think:
Agree that Niagara is probably the leader in wanting to do so and you have probably pegged the other schools attitudes pretty accurately, including the AHA4. That is why I constantly have said the "right situation" - and WCHA is not the right situation for any of the schools, including Niagara. No, Niagara would not be a sure bet to take that. Niagara would love to go ECAC, perhaps as a TP with RIT if that opening ever presented (long shot). They would love to be in an "Empire State" league with the ECAC non-Ivies if there was ever a split (another long shot). They would be very happy to form a Great Lakes conference with the AHA4, BGSU, FSU and hopefully two more schools (prefer an 8 team, maybe even 7 team, conference - probably not 6).
fyi - As for Niagara going indy back when, they would have been much more successful than UAH. The choice to go to AHA was made by the former AD. The staff was fully prepared to go the indy route and felt that they had already covered their scheduling needs if that happened (including commitments for some Feb games). As you say, the geography was a lot more favorable for Niagara.
You make some excellent comments and I agree to a large extent ...I think that AHA has come a good distance since the old MAAC days. I get that Niagara and its fans are disappointed that they have never been given a chance to compete in a Big 4 league. going Indy was not really much of an option, though. Just ask Huntsville how they enjoyed it. Now Niagara is in a bit better area for scheduling maybe, but once schools get into serious conference play, in February, getting a large number of them to play you is problematic at best, I suspect.
As for AHA schools wanting to leave, I have to question that. Niagara is probably the leader, followed by Mercyhurst, but I'm not convinced that Mercyhurst is all that willing outside the head coach. Probably everyone would consider it if their dream league came along with an offer. heck, UConn wasn't aggressively looking but couldn't say no when Hockey East called. Holy Cross would go to the ECAC if only to get to be seen in the company of the Ivy leaguers. Probably RIT would do that too, though to be considered equal to Colgate,Cornell, Clarkson and RPI rather than the Ivies. But I'm not sure that any of that means any of them would go to the WCHA. It's one thing to play Clarkson or Harvard all the time. It is quite another to play Alabama-Huntsville and Alaska-Fairbanks. I think only Niagara would be a sure bet to take that offer. Robert Morris is a definite maybe as is Mercyhurst.
The AHA has come a long way and I think it is very much due to the influx of teams from the much-maligned CHA - all the schools that came over have raised the level of play significantly. It was hoped that they would pull along those schools that were part of the old MAAC. Results so far say it is very debatable.
Based on being around the Niagara program for quite a while, this is what I think:
Agree that Niagara is probably the leader in wanting to do so and you have probably pegged the other schools attitudes pretty accurately, including the AHA4. That is why I constantly have said the "right situation" - and WCHA is not the right situation for any of the schools, including Niagara. No, Niagara would not be a sure bet to take that. Niagara would love to go ECAC, perhaps as a TP with RIT if that opening ever presented (long shot). They would love to be in an "Empire State" league with the ECAC non-Ivies if there was ever a split (another long shot). They would be very happy to form a Great Lakes conference with the AHA4, BGSU, FSU and hopefully two more schools (prefer an 8 team, maybe even 7 team, conference - probably not 6).
fyi - As for Niagara going indy back when, they would have been much more successful than UAH. The choice to go to AHA was made by the former AD. The staff was fully prepared to go the indy route and felt that they had already covered their scheduling needs if that happened (including commitments for some Feb games). As you say, the geography was a lot more favorable for Niagara.
Re: Atlantic Hockey Adds to Scholarship Limit, Mulls Expansion
Small point: Cornell is an Ivy (except for the Agricultural College which is a SUNY, right?). But your point is a good one and still stands.Probably RIT would do that too, though to be considered equal to Colgate,Cornell, Clarkson and RPI rather than the Ivies.
Re: Atlantic Hockey Adds to Scholarship Limit, Mulls Expansion
I think you give short shrift to the on-ice progress those teams have made. I've been watching AHA hockey since the league's second season as the MAAC (which was my first year of undergrad at UConn). We're in the days when 10-1 blowouts are anomalous results and AHA ties, wins and one-point losses are becoming the norm, even for the lower tier of the league; back then things were practically the opposite.
Air Force, yes, I think they have done gangbusters in raising the level of play. Niagara...has had too little time to have any influence. Same with RMU, except RMU is IMO a mid-tier team whereas Niagara is a clear top-tier performer.
RIT has raised the league's profile as well, but of course they weren't a CHA insert.
If the Hypothetical Lake Erie Bus League happens, it probably has to occur under the following conditions: eight teams within a five hour radius of the league center point, all of which are within two-three hours of the next closest team, and six of those teams have to be established programs (which is not a problem).
Meaning: they need at least two more teams that are no more than five hours from The Cleve.
The "new year doldrums" are what constitutes an impediment for nearly any program trying to make it as an independent. Teams would still rather have the off-weekend during conference play when they get one.
You make some excellent comments and I agree to a large extent ...
The AHA has come a long way and I think it is very much due to the influx of teams from the much-maligned CHA - all the schools that came over have raised the level of play significantly. It was hoped that they would pull along those schools that were part of the old MAAC. Results so far say it is very debatable.
I think you give short shrift to the on-ice progress those teams have made. I've been watching AHA hockey since the league's second season as the MAAC (which was my first year of undergrad at UConn). We're in the days when 10-1 blowouts are anomalous results and AHA ties, wins and one-point losses are becoming the norm, even for the lower tier of the league; back then things were practically the opposite.
Air Force, yes, I think they have done gangbusters in raising the level of play. Niagara...has had too little time to have any influence. Same with RMU, except RMU is IMO a mid-tier team whereas Niagara is a clear top-tier performer.
RIT has raised the league's profile as well, but of course they weren't a CHA insert.
Based on being around the Niagara program for quite a while, this is what I think:
Agree that Niagara is probably the leader in wanting to do so and you have probably pegged the other schools attitudes pretty accurately, including the AHA4. That is why I constantly have said the "right situation" - and WCHA is not the right situation for any of the schools, including Niagara. No, Niagara would not be a sure bet to take that. Niagara would love to go ECAC, perhaps as a TP with RIT if that opening ever presented (long shot). They would love to be in an "Empire State" league with the ECAC non-Ivies if there was ever a split (another long shot). They would be very happy to form a Great Lakes conference with the AHA4, BGSU, FSU and hopefully two more schools (prefer an 8 team, maybe even 7 team, conference - probably not 6).
If the Hypothetical Lake Erie Bus League happens, it probably has to occur under the following conditions: eight teams within a five hour radius of the league center point, all of which are within two-three hours of the next closest team, and six of those teams have to be established programs (which is not a problem).
Meaning: they need at least two more teams that are no more than five hours from The Cleve.
fyi - As for Niagara going indy back when, they would have been much more successful than UAH. The choice to go to AHA was made by the former AD. The staff was fully prepared to go the indy route and felt that they had already covered their scheduling needs if that happened (including commitments for some Feb games). As you say, the geography was a lot more favorable for Niagara.
The "new year doldrums" are what constitutes an impediment for nearly any program trying to make it as an independent. Teams would still rather have the off-weekend during conference play when they get one.
Re: Atlantic Hockey Adds to Scholarship Limit, Mulls Expansion
Sorry for the short-shrift ... when I stated that the CHA teams had "raised the level of play significantly" I was talking about the entire league. I acknowledge improvement on-ice overall, but the relative quality of play within the conference is evidenced by the standings (pretty much same bottom four year after year). And the program as a whole needs to be considered. How much program improvement is demonstrated by a team that averages 138 in attendance?
To say that Niagara and RMU have not influenced the league's profile yet? Wow ... cannot agree at all with that. Do agree that RIT has certainly helped AHA, along with AFA.
Sorry for the short-shrift ... when I stated that the CHA teams had "raised the level of play significantly" I was talking about the entire league. I acknowledge improvement on-ice overall, but the relative quality of play within the conference is evidenced by the standings (pretty much same bottom four year after year). And the program as a whole needs to be considered. How much program improvement is demonstrated by a team that averages 138 in attendance?
To say that Niagara and RMU have not influenced the league's profile yet? Wow ... cannot agree at all with that. Do agree that RIT has certainly helped AHA, along with AFA.
The WCHA is going to want to get to twelve teams again.
The only place to get to those twelve teams is grab from the AHA.
The AHA4 and Air Force.
Just curious...who from the WCHA has expressed a desire to get to 12 teams? Why would they add schools that will increase already bloated travel expenses for most teams?
The extra travel expenses are covered by both Alaska teams and UAH.
There is no extra travel expenses as some league members have paid the bill.
Who is covering the extra hotels, meals and bus expense to Buffalo or Pittsburgh from Houghton or Marquette? When has anyone in the WCHA expressed a desire for 12 teams?
RapidsCity
New member
Who is covering the extra hotels, meals and bus expense to Buffalo or Pittsburgh from Houghton or Marquette? When has anyone in the WCHA expressed a desire for 12 teams?
Don't beat your head against that brick wall. The Pink Donkey makes less sense than Truth Squad & Truth Serum in our LSSU thread and my ex Wife and her mother combined. Sure, Mercyhurst would much rather make the two day bus trip to Houghton or fly to Bemidji than bus 3 hours to Buffalo!
Re: Atlantic Hockey Adds to Scholarship Limit, Mulls Expansion
As fun as it is to pick on "SUNY Ithaca", there really is no such thing. It's all Cornell (and all Ivy), it's just that some of the colleges/schools are sponsored by the great state of New York (land grant, etc., called the "contract colleges") and others are part of what's called the "endowed colleges". Some programs are actually offered through both sides and a NY state resident can simply decide to apply to the "contract colleges" side to save significant dollars while getting exactly the same Cornell degree (and with no restriction on taking classes in the "endowed colleges".
To be somewhat on topic, yes, RIT would love to move to the ECAC if such an opportunity ever presents itself. I think that's still a real possibility, but it could be a long time. I'm also sure RIT would love to be associated with the Ivies in addition to their Liberty League brethren of RPI, Union, St. L., Clarkson as well as folks like Colgate.
On the Niagara front, I don't see them as ready to bolt or as supportive of hockey as some (but I am an outsider). I still have to wonder about the demise of women's hockey there. I know it's technically a different sport, but it seems a big-time hockey school would want to have both?? (I've also heard that those ladies weren't treated very well at the end and that all evidence of the team having existed has been removed from campus. I have no idea if that's true, but it makes one wonder.)
Small point: Cornell is an Ivy (except for the Agricultural College which is a SUNY, right?). But your point is a good one and still stands.
As fun as it is to pick on "SUNY Ithaca", there really is no such thing. It's all Cornell (and all Ivy), it's just that some of the colleges/schools are sponsored by the great state of New York (land grant, etc., called the "contract colleges") and others are part of what's called the "endowed colleges". Some programs are actually offered through both sides and a NY state resident can simply decide to apply to the "contract colleges" side to save significant dollars while getting exactly the same Cornell degree (and with no restriction on taking classes in the "endowed colleges".
To be somewhat on topic, yes, RIT would love to move to the ECAC if such an opportunity ever presents itself. I think that's still a real possibility, but it could be a long time. I'm also sure RIT would love to be associated with the Ivies in addition to their Liberty League brethren of RPI, Union, St. L., Clarkson as well as folks like Colgate.
On the Niagara front, I don't see them as ready to bolt or as supportive of hockey as some (but I am an outsider). I still have to wonder about the demise of women's hockey there. I know it's technically a different sport, but it seems a big-time hockey school would want to have both?? (I've also heard that those ladies weren't treated very well at the end and that all evidence of the team having existed has been removed from campus. I have no idea if that's true, but it makes one wonder.)