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Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

Re: Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

makes me wanna puke

Agreed. Falwell was a bigoted, mean-spirited, ignorant schmuck. Robertson's smarter, but no less a blight on the religion he espouses. Remember, he claims his prayers re-directed a hurricane years ago. At least Jimmy Swaggart, as repulsive as he is, can sing. The lasting image of Swaggart is him riding up and down Airline Highway between Baton Rouge and New Orleans, wearing his sweat pants with the crotch cut out, looking for hookers. Charming.
 
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Re: Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

To sum up the issue about how media people reacted to this... here's an example of someone reacting like a normal human being would:
http://tv.gawker.com/5730178/watch-jon-stewarts-poignant-speech-on-the-arizona-shooting

Here's an example of someone who's just looking to sling crap around and point fingers, because he's a terrible person:
http://tv.gawker.com/5730170/

What's sad about the media isn't really who it is that falls into the second category, or what they say that puts them in that category, or even what their motives are. What's sad about it is that it seems like there are so many people who fall into that mode of thinking.
 
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Re: Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

To sum up the issue about how media people reacted to this... here's an example of someone reacting like a normal human being would:
http://tv.gawker.com/5730178/watch-jon-stewarts-poignant-speech-on-the-arizona-shooting

Here's an example of someone who's just looking to sling crap around and point fingers, because he's a terrible person:
http://tv.gawker.com/5730170/

What's sad about the media isn't really who it is that falls into the second category, or what they say that puts them in that category, or even what their motives are. What's sad about it is that it seems like there are so many people who fall into that mode of thinking.

Stewart was great, Maher was typical. American politics has always been rough and tumble. Read some of the stuff written about Lincoln or the editorial cartoons of the time. Very rough. George Will once said: "Chicago politics, like Chicago baseball, is not for the sqeamish. And over the last couple of years with the governor peddling a Senate seat like a hot dog vendor, we've seen how bad it can get. Technology has only increased our ability to express ourselves in previously unacceptable ways, using language which one only used to hear in locker rooms or perhaps on the docks.

The comity we used to see from our leaders has been significantly diminished. The days when a couple of senators on opposite sides of an issue could go to a DC restaurant and work out those differences over a strip steak and a couple of glasses of scotch are largely over. I posted earlier about LBJ asking for and getting assistance from Republican leader Ev Direksen in getting the '64 civil rights act past the southern Democrats in the Senate.

Many (most?) of us have come to see political opponants as the enemy and it's one short step from that to criminalizing opposition. That's the flavor of some of the stuff we've been hearing the last couple of days. So while I agree that we should "tone down the rhetoric," my objection is the assertion that overheated rhetoric is only a problem on one side of the spectrum and (as Stewart indicated) that rhetoric was somehow causal in this event. Now we're hearing Loughner had some sort of half as*ed Palo Mayombe-like shrine in his backyard! Mein Gott. Is that "liberal" or "conservative" or just "crazy?" I've said before this guy reminds me of Seung-Hui Cho, the kid who shot up Virginia Tech. A guy with obvious, serious problems, noted repeatedly by people who had daily contact with him. And not much was done about it--being "strange" is not a crime, and we make it very tough for police and other authorities to intervene. Finally, both unspooled to the point they wound up gong on murder sprees. Not a shadow doubt in my mind that Loughner was planning to die.

So we'll have a federal trial where one hopes he'll be convicted and sentenced to death. Otherwise, we'll have a state trial, where he'll almost certainly be convicted and condemned (we take a dim view of murdering 9 year old girls) and 20 years from now he'll be juiced. That's about the best we can hope for on the legal side.

As to the quality of the political debate, I'm not as optimistic. When you have people who should be above such things, pushing an analysis of what happened in Tucson that they think profits them politically, I'm not sure we'll ever make any progress. To me it's a fairly simple proposition: either both sides need to "tone down the rhetoric" or neither side needs to.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled program.
 
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Re: Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

Stewart was great. Maher is a comedian and very callous so that was to be expected.

I though Chris Matthews was the worst of the MSNBC crowd trying very hard to lay blame to the right. I thought O'Reilly was beyond stupid spending all his "viewer" power on trashing MSNBC and the NY Times again instead of actually taking the high road and putting on a program he could be proud of. Olbermann was very restrained I thought from what I saw of him and I thought of the whole Cable crowd that I saw Rachel Maddow handled the issue with the most poise.

I did not see Anderson Cooper or Sean Hannity's show so I can't comment on those, or any others.
 
Re: Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

Stewart, Colbert, Maddow and the rare intelligent Maher guest are the only people I can stand watching about things like this. Having a brain is a pre-req to having an opinion worth listening to. I can't think of another generalist pundit from any perspective who is dependably tolerable (there are some economists and a lot of science commentators who are very good, but that's more niche).

A brain isn't a guarantee, though. Maher himself comes across as both very smart and an insufferable bully.
 
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Re: Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

A brain isn't a guarantee, though. Maher himself comes across as both very smart and an insufferable bully.

Watch Religulous. Quite weak. It appears that Maher is trying to weaken the rationale for religion itself...but in the end, really just shows people who are devoted to their religion.

From IMDB, does this sound like a show that brings much to the table?

'Maher goes to a Creationist Museum in Kentucky, which shows that dinosaurs and people lived at the same time 5000 years ago. He talks to truckers at a Truckers' Chapel. (Sign outside: "Jesus love you.") He goes to a theme park called Holy Land in Florida. He speaks to a rabbi in league with Holocaust deniers. He talks to a Muslim musician who preaches hatred of Jews. Maher finds the unlikeliest of believers and, in a certain Vatican priest, he even finds an unlikely skeptic.'
 
Re: Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

Interesting to hear Congresswoman Gifford's interview on MSNBC about 10 months ago. She was not happy about Sarah Palin putting a bullseye on her district.

http://openchannel.msnbc.msn.com/_n...terview-with-rep-giffords-discussing-violence

I would say that's just a coincidence, but Sarah herself said "I don't believe in coincidences."

Personally, I'm relieved he killed the little girl before she could grow up and turn into Hitler.:rolleyes:
 
Re: Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

Watch Religulous.

I can't. There are amazing people writing about atheism, but the only ideas that are put in front of the public are the vituperations of Maher or Dawkins. It's the equivalent of having faith publicly represented by Dobson and Falwell.
 
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Re: Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

Peter King has an idea.


New York Republican Rep. Peter King said Tuesday that he will introduce legislation to ban the carrying of any firearm within 1,000 feet of what he described as “high-profile government officials.”

“It is imperative that we do all that we can to give law enforcement the tools they need to ensure the safety of New Yorkers and prevent an attack before it happens,” King said during a press conference with New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg. “That is why, as chairman of the Homeland Security Committee and co-chair of the Congressional Task Force on Illegal Guns, I will be introducing legislation that would make it illegal to knowingly carry a gun within a 1,000 feet of certain high-profile government officials.”

A few questions here. First off, how do you prove "knowingly"? Second, I wonder what part of the Constitution he's going to cite as he introduces this bill?

The most important question though is how will this help anything? Does Rep. King really think that nuts like Loughner will stop and consider laws like this? Really?
 
Re: Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

Peter King has an idea.




A few questions here. First off, how do you prove "knowingly"? Second, I wonder what part of the Constitution he's going to cite as he introduces this bill?

The most important question though is how will this help anything? Does Rep. King really think that nuts like Loughner will stop and consider laws like this? Really?

It's symbolic. That's all we ever do anymore is symbolic reactionary laws that mean nothing.
 
Re: Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

Second, I wonder what part of the Constitution he's going to cite as he introduces this bill?

:)


I still don't get how if guns are supposed to make us safer...that most concerned about security seek to control them.

I guess there was another guy on the scene carrying a concealed weapon who almost shot an innocent bystander.
 
Re: Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

:)



I still don't get how if guns are supposed to make us safer...that most concerned about security seek to control them.

I guess there was another guy on the scene carrying a concealed weapon who almost shot an innocent bystander.

I hear he almost ended the shooting spree. Potato potahto.
 
Re: Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

A few questions here. First off, how do you prove "knowingly"?

Knowingly is a common standard. It's basically the same as intentionally, with some caveats. Like most things, it's been twisted and abused by lawyers over the years to some absurd extremes (e.g. - you have a hunting rifle in your car after a hunting trip that you forgot to take out. 3 months later you get pulled over. It is likely you are still "knowingly" possessing that gun even though you didn't even remember you left it there or ever intended to keep it there).
 
Re: Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

Knowingly is a common standard. It's basically the same as intentionally, with some caveats. Like most things, it's been twisted and abused by lawyers over the years to some absurd extremes (e.g. - you have a hunting rifle in your car after a hunting trip that you forgot to take out. 3 months later you get pulled over. It is likely you are still "knowingly" possessing that gun even though you didn't even remember you left it there or ever intended to keep it there).

Sure. Knowingly obviously comes into play at town hall meetings or things like that, where you know the Congressperson is going to be there, and you show up to it. I'm talking more about things like the event Rep. Giffords was at, or I believe the Rep in Madison goes to the farmers market on occasion, things like that. Say someone happens to show up to either of those events, and they are stopped by police. How does a police officer know whether you knowingly were carrying in the presence of a Congressperson or not?
 
Re: Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

Why not throw in "No speech that could incite violence or rile people up within 1,000 ft of an elected official" while we're at it.
 
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