Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

[bigmrg74]

Re: Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

What sort of political motivation was it though?

From what I've heard, the guy sounded more like a Militia type. All but expect them to find a copy of The Turner Diaries in with his books.

 

[huskyfan]

Re: Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

Are you a psychiatrist? Have seen no mention of him being a schizo...and its been on the tv nonstop for the past 18 hours down here. There isn't a system in place because psychiatry isn't an absolute science. One psych could say he's a schizo and another could say he's not...which one is right?

Considering a US represnetative was targeted...he shot at her first...and there was an incindiary device found at her offices, I don't think its too far fetched to assume it was politcally motivated.

ha! no, I am not a psychiatrist. I saw a report that he was kicked out of college for disruptive behavior. The school told him he couldn't be reinstated without a mental evaluation. the rambling paranoid nature of his you tube and my space pages are what I'm basing my "diagnosis" on.

our real Doctor (Demento) brings up very good points about individual rights.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

What sort of political motivation was it though?

I think we need to know more about his accomplice before we can make an assertion either way.

 

[vizoroo]

Re: Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

I haven't uttered a single word about Ms. Gifford's politics. And for good reason: Her politics aren't relevant to this horrible act. Generally speaking, I take a dim view of attempting to assassinate elected officials (or anyone else, for that matter) because of their beliefs.

What a tragic event! The hopes and prayers of the nation should be directed to Ms. Gifford, the others who were injured and the families of those innocent bystanders who lost their lives.

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

I haven't uttered a single word about Ms. Gifford's politics. And for good reason: Her politics aren't relevant to this horrible act. Generally speaking, I take a dim view of attempting to assassinate elected officials (or anyone else, for that matter) because of their beliefs. Apparantly in your world anyone who disagrees with you MUST advocate or at least justify violence to politicians simply BECAUSE they disagree with you. You're pathetic. So take your gold star and rotate.

As to the usage issues, I'm merely trying to educate the uneducable.

Classic Old Pio. Is there anything that you don't get defensive over?

Of course its irrelevant to this horrible act, but its not like that hasn't stopped you in the past from making irrelevant statements about JFK being a terrible husband in the JFK assassination thread a month and a half ago, or about how much you hated Ted Kennedy's politics when he died. I'm just saying that you're showing a little more restraint than you normally do, and we should all be proud of you. Progress is progress, no matter how small.

I don't even care that you're still getting whiny, putting words into the mouths of people who dare to go against you on anything, and saying that I'm pathetic (or that I'm a socialist or that I'm killing America or whatever) just for giving you a hard time. Baby steps, Old Pio.

 

[jmh]

Re: Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

Oy, are people really arguing about whether the correct term is "Congressman" or "Congresswoman"? We sure are good at focusing on the important stuff here on this board, aren't we?

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

Instead of all this silly finger pointing, could discuss the real issue: mental illness. how did this paranoid schizophrenic young man fall through the cracks? how was he able to get a gun? where were his parents? did they not realize he was ill? does the stigma associated with mental illness prevent people from getting help? are we putting enough $$$ and research into this devastating illness? what rights do the mental ill have? should this young man have been institutionalized? his college knew he had problems. is there any system to report this behavior and make sure follow up is done? our politicians and media our doing a great disservice by making this out to be a politically motivated shooting.

Does the name Seung-Hui Cho ring a bell? He was the Virginia Tech shooter and had an extensive mental health record before he enrolled. He was "hiding in plain sight" at Tech, yet privacy laws and institutiional inertia and other factors meant nothing much was done. Recall that one faculty member told administrators "either he goes or I go" and the chairman of the English department pulled Cho out of class and was teaching him one on one because his classmates were creeped out by his behavior.

My uninformed guess in that Loughner and Cho are cut from the same cloth. You're right, we don't do a very good job in teating the mentally ill. As Dr. Demento has pointed out, many of these folks are simply released on city streets with instructiions to take their meds, but no realistic followup to see that they actually do. As usual, money is part of the equation here. Plus as a free society it's not against the law to be a "strange ranger." Neither Cho nor Laughner (as far as we know now) had done anything illegal, nothing to give authorities probable cause to intervene. Cho left behind those chilling videotapes and Loughner had his You Tube postings. How do we balance the rights of individuals to be free from government abuse while protecting the rights of the innocent not to be gunned down in a Safeway parking lot?

 

[Handyman]

Re: Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

Do you intentionally misread a statement or do you just try to read between the lines an insert your own thoughts? Nowhere in what I posted did I suggest anything about everyone having to get psychiatrically evaluated. But those that have shown that they are a danger to society-and there are plenty of them-are walking around out there, many on medications that they can freely stop taking. Something is wrong with that scenario. In trying to have fewer patients hospitalized-perhaps solely to save money-have we maybe thrown out the baby with the bathwater? Shouldn't there be some way to protect the vast majority of people from the nutcases? That is why I asked the simple question-have we gone too far in the past 50 or so years to protect the rights of these flakes at the expense of our personal security and the safety of society in general?

The problem is though there can be a very fine line between what is deemed "dangerous to society" and what is not. I mean the ones that are beyond help of course you can tell but sometimes it can take decades of regular checking before it becomes apparent someone has slipped that far. Not to mention that no two psychiatrists can ever agree on anything. That is why half the mental illnesses out there have similar diagnoses, symptoms and treatments.

That is leaving out the fact that there is no money to institutionalize them anyways. Hospitals can't afford it, health care isnt going to cover it long term and the government sure as heck cant afford it. Sure if some rich kid splits his personalities his family can afford to send him up upstate somewhere but if the average American Family has a kid go schizo that kid will most likely either end up on the street or living at home being medicated with supervision. There is no room for all of the mentally ill, there is no money...there is no solution.

Plus, if you lock them away, do they have a way to ever get out? Is this a life sentence situation and if it is then dont you need to basically give them every chance to prove they can live in society meaning most of these people will still have the opportunity to do bad things anyways? I mean to prove they are a danger to society dont they have to do something to be deemed as such? It is un-American to just lock people away because they are diagnosed as mentally ill.

Yes I know you said none of that, I am just thinking aloud based on your statements.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

Are you a psychiatrist? Have seen no mention of him being a schizo...and its been on the tv nonstop for the past 18 hours down here. There isn't a system in place because psychiatry isn't an absolute science. One psych could say he's a schizo and another could say he's not...which one is right?

Considering a US represnetative was targeted...he shot at her first...and there was an incindiary device found at her offices, I don't think its too far fetched to assume it was politcally motivated.

Two possibilities here: you're a troll or an idiot. Either way your ignorant blather is getting on my nerves.

And while you're constructing your elaborate conspiracy theory, dont forget the grassy noll.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

Jared Lee Loughner's statements tied to conspiracy theory

Jared Lee Loughner’s rants about grammar and mind control track closely to the writings of a conspiracy theorist who believes that is how the government controls the populace, one leading group says – and the man tells POLITICO he agrees with some of Loughner’s statements.

The far-right activist, David Wynn Miller, said in a telephone interview that he didn’t know Loughner, but agreed with his statement in a YouTube video that “the government is implying mind control and brainwash on the people by controlling grammar.”

“Absolutely I would agree with it,” said Miller, 62, a former tool-and-die maker from Milwaukee who claims 1 billion “students” worldwide.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

Classic Old Pio. Is there anything that you don't get defensive over?

Of course its irrelevant to this horrible act, but its not like that hasn't stopped you in the past from making irrelevant statements about JFK being a terrible husband in the JFK assassination thread a month and a half ago, or about how much you hated Ted Kennedy's politics when he died. I'm just saying that you're showing a little more restraint than you normally do, and we should all be proud of you. Progress is progress, no matter how small.

I don't even care that you're still getting whiny, putting words into the mouths of people who dare to go against you on anything, and saying that I'm pathetic (or that I'm a socialist or that I'm killing America or whatever) just for giving you a hard time. Baby steps, Old Pio.

It's funny, I don't remember a single one of your posts. Maybe because I don't obsess on the irrelevant or because I've got better things to do. And I though I don't recall what I said in a JFK assassination thread, the thread and my comments are hardly comparable to what happened yesterday. What would be accurate is comparing my thoughts back in November of '63 with my thoughts about yesterday's outrage. As I've posted previously, in November of '63 I was one of thousands of University of Illinos ROTC students who marched into the Assembly Hall, with muffled drums, wearing our dress uniforms, and black armbands to honor the late president. Four decades later, the overwhelming emotions of that day don't preclude me from pointing out that JFK was hardly a saint.

In your mind, evidently, anyone who disagrees with you is "defensive." Gotta just let you vomit your liberal offal all over the place without comment. So much for your dedication to a freee exchange of ideas. I could learn to live without your passive aggressive bull sh*t.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

I think we need to know more about his accomplice before we can make an assertion either way.

Latest reporting indicates the guy wasn't an "accomplice" and was uninvolved. Evidently someone else who was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Those of us old enough will remember all the heavy breathing about the "woman in the polka dot dress" after the RFK assassination. Dead end.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

From what I've heard, the guy sounded more like a Militia type. All but expect them to find a copy of The Turner Diaries in with his books.

Along with his copy of Peter Pan and Alice in Wonderland? Although this idiot listed many books as among his favorites, it wouldn't surprise me that he hadn't read any of 'em. For instance, it takes a particular dedication to the task to slog your way through Mein Kampf. I have serious doubts this nutbar was up to it.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

Latest reporting indicated the guy wasn't an "accomplice" and was uninvolved. Evidently someone else who was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Those of us old enough will remember all the heavy breathing about the "woman in the polka dot dress" after the RFK assassination. Dead end.

Well, good, then we're all safe now. It was just a lone nut job and not someone carrying out the "2nd amendment remedy" that many of us apparently desire so passionately. Palin can rest easy now.

 

[gojackets]

Re: Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

And while you're constructing your elaborate conspiracy theory, dont forget the grassy noll.

I love that in no way have I constructed a conspiracy theory, yet you insist that I am putting one forward. Maybe you need to go to one of dementos mental health checkpoints for testing!

You never answered my question...do you live in Sun City? That would explain a lot for me.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

Well, good, then were all safe now. It was just a lone nut job and not someone carrying out the "2nd amendment remedy" that many of us apparently desire so passionately. Palin can rest easy now.

You really want it to be a conspiracy, don't you? And you're disappointed that as far as we know now, it wasn't. And your willingness to smear Palin confirms just how obsessive you liberal punks are. This just can't be the actions of a crazy person. We've got to be able to blame somebody and Palin is a convenient target. And while you're smearing Palin, smear me or anyone else who has the temerity to disagree with you. Pathetic.

 

[gojackets]

Re: Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

Latest reporting indicates the guy wasn't an "accomplice" and was uninvolved. Evidently someone else who was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Those of us old enough will remember all the heavy breathing about the "woman in the polka dot dress" after the RFK assassination. Dead end.

It is funny that there was some creepy looking guy standing there watching...and they jump to the conclusion that he was an accomplice and broadcast his face over AZ..maybe national news as an accomplice....he got a lawsuit there?

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

You really want it to be a conspiracy, don't you? And you're disappointed that as far as we know now, it wasn't. And your willingness to smear Palin confirms just how obsessive you liberal punks are. This just can't be the actions of a crazy person. We've got to be able to blame somebody and Palin is a convenient target. And while you're smearing Palin, smear me or anyone else who has the temerity to disagree with you. Pathetic.

ROTFLMAO

I'm not the one who ran against her by having a shoot an M16 day or submitting fliers with gun crosshairs on it.

It's for the best that it turns out this way if it is indeed the case. That being said I can't help but think that eventually the inevitable will happen and we'll finally have to start dealing with some things.

 

[DrDemento]

Re: Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

The problem is though there can be a very fine line between what is deemed "dangerous to society" and what is not. I mean the ones that are beyond help of course you can tell but sometimes it can take decades of regular checking before it becomes apparent someone has slipped that far. Not to mention that no two psychiatrists can ever agree on anything. That is why half the mental illnesses out there have similar diagnoses, symptoms and treatments.

That is leaving out the fact that there is no money to institutionalize them anyways. Hospitals can't afford it, health care isnt going to cover it long term and the government sure as heck cant afford it. Sure if some rich kid splits his personalities his family can afford to send him up upstate somewhere but if the average American Family has a kid go schizo that kid will most likely either end up on the street or living at home being medicated with supervision. There is no room for all of the mentally ill, there is no money...there is no solution.

Plus, if you lock them away, do they have a way to ever get out? Is this a life sentence situation and if it is then dont you need to basically give them every chance to prove they can live in society meaning most of these people will still have the opportunity to do bad things anyways? I mean to prove they are a danger to society dont they have to do something to be deemed as such? It is un-American to just lock people away because they are diagnosed as mentally ill.

Yes I know you said none of that, I am just thinking aloud based on your statements.

Definitely OK to think out loud. I have been around long enough to see the treatment of dangerously deranged people change greatly over the years. 50 years ago committment and hospitaliztion was the rule but modern day treatment has changed that to mostly outpatient care and medications. My own feeling is that neither is the complete answer but that the latter has allowed for a far more dangerous situation in society. We have far more loaded weapons out there who we are told are under treatment-but that treatment consists of their taking medication on a voluntary basis. I am in no way professing to have all the answers-but I do know that what we have been doing is not really working all that well-as evidenced by watching the local news almost any evening. Old Pio has poiinted out a number of fairly recent episodes that attest to that.

 

[moose97]

Re: Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

The little girl that was killed was born on 9/11/01.

The little girl was Dallas Green's grandaughter:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=6004887