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Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

Re: Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

ScoobyDoo said:
No, it's not Bush's fault. He actually supported the ban. The ban was passed by the Senate but the House failed to take it up. Sure, two glocks would have been 20 bullets, his magazine from what I read had 30. Do I hear 3?
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I actually see no purpose for such enormous clips. IIRC, the clips on the M-16's I fired in service could only hold 20 rounds. So if we want to ban 'em I've got no problem. Even so, such a change in the law would have only a microscopic chance of preventing a similar event. My entirely unprofessional opinion is: whackdoodles are endlessly creative and inventive.

How many laws did Klebold and Harris violate? And what new law would have prevented their crimes?
 
Re: Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

Old Pio said:
How many laws did Klebold and Harris violate? And what new law would have prevented their crimes?
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The problem with that argument is it invites hopelessness and the argument that any law is pointless. Which is true. If someone wants to kill you, they can, and there's probably not a lot you can do about it. That doesn't mean that we don't try.
 
Re: Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

Kepler said:
Your last sentence is silly (more mind-reading from you), but the rest of the paragraph is exactly right, and most of us agree with it. The worst thing people can do here is give people permission to turn their brains off on this issue by giving them any easy out to dismiss everything as a political tactic. Holding up Giffords as a babe in the woods gives them that easy out.

Anybody who uses this sort of rhetoric is wrong for doing so, be they left, right, or Silly Party. Anybody who seeks to excuse this sort of rhetoric by hiding behind claims that all calls to be careful in rherotic are politically-motivated is likewise wrong.
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I'm just wondering, we're in the middle of the NFL playoffs. Would you ban the announcers from referring to the "blitz." Lots of people died in the blitz. Any evidence some deranged fan out there thought the use of the word "blitz" gave him permission to invade New Jersey?

As to mind reading, you figure she didn't do any preparation or message honing before the interview (with a lefty media outlet)? Based on what evidence? I worked on a campaign in Nebraska and I can tell you our candidate NEVER just went on TV to casually share his "concerns" about anything. NEVER. Now maybe Ms Giffords was iin the habit of ad libbing, but I sincerely doubt it. What's really wrong with this analysis is that it 1. infanalizes Ms Giffords and 2. makes those "concerns" she expressed predictive. She, she's gravely injured, facing possible life long physical/nerological deficits--AND SHE WARNED US ABOUT THAT D*MN PALIN!

That's just a backdoor way to continue libeling Palin for something she had absolutely nothing to do with. It's a major league cheap shot, but then that's what we've come to expect from Palin haters, one of whom has announced she intends to go after Palin's 16 year old daughter. That's pretty classless, but then, class isn't exactly the word that pops into my head when thinking about these people.
 
Re: Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

Alan Dershowitz weighs in on today's PalinFrenzy:
The term “blood libel” has taken on a broad metaphorical meaning in public discourse. Although its historical origins were in theologically based false accusations against the Jews and the Jewish People,its current usage is far broader. I myself have used it to describe false accusations against the State of Israel by the Goldstone Report. There is nothing improper and certainly nothing anti-Semitic in Sarah Palin using the term to characterize what she reasonably believes are false accusations that her words or images may have caused a mentally disturbed individual to kill and maim. The fact that two of the victims are Jewish is utterly irrelevant to the propriety of using this widely used term.
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Re: Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

ScoobyDoo said:
The problem with that argument is it invites hopelessness and the argument that any law is pointless. Which is true. If someone wants to kill you, they can, and there's probably not a lot you can do about it. That doesn't mean that we don't try.
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The problem with your analysis is that "trying" and more gun control laws are synonymous. No additional constitiutional gun law could have stopped those two. Better high school counseling, better law enforcement followup with juvenile offenders and other efforts, might (emphasize might) have revealed the depth of disfunction in those boys. Just for the sake or argument, let's say they broke 20 laws, you figure we should pass a 21st law (regardless of its efficacy) so we can pat ourselves on the back as having "tried?" I'd prefer "trying" something that has a chance of working, even a tiny chance.
 
Re: Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

Old Pio said:
The problem with your analysis is that "trying" and more gun control laws are synonymous. No additional constitiutional gun law could have stopped those two. Better high school counseling, better law enforcement followup with juvenile offenders and other efforts, might (emphasize might) have revealed the depth of disfunction in those boys. Just for the sake or argument, let's say they broke 20 laws, you figure we should pass a 21st law (regardless of its efficacy) so we can pat ourselves on the back as having "tried?" I'd prefer "trying" something that has a chance of working, even a tiny chance.
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If you think I implied anything other than common sense then I sincerely apologize. But, consider the law I was talking about earlier. Appears we banned new sales of extended magazines but did not ban the distribution of existing extended magazines. Now there's lack of common sense.

Oh, we apparently passed a law in the late 80's banning "plastic guns". Now that seems to me to have some common sense attached to it. Only 4 people in the house voted against that one. Dick Cheney was one of them.

I suppose the problem with the extended magazines now is "they're out there". If we "round" them up then all the gun owners are going to be afraid will take away their hunting rifle next.

I'm starting to feel the sense of hopelessness with this that we all feel about the drug war. We keep fighting that one though despite it being impossible to ferret out.
 
Re: Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

Kepler said:
LOL. Nice mind-reading act you have there.

But yeah, the right doesn't rely on a persecution complex to get out of tight corners. :rolleyes:
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Thanks, the turban sometimes chafes. I'm wondering how all the people who "just know" what motivated Loughner deal with that problem?

I read all of Al Sharpton's public statements--starting with Tawana Brawley--for inspriation.
 
Re: Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

ScoobyDoo said:
I suppose the problem with the extended magazines now is "they're out there". If we "round" them up then all the gun owners are going to be afraid will take away their hunting rifle next.
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While I'm sure that that was likely a major plank in the NRA argument at the time, I do think there are some very real common sense problems with such a "round up". For example, how do we find out who owns such a clip? Who comes and picks up the clip? Who pays for the agents to go around collecting the clips from these owners? And so on.
 
Re: Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

WeWantMore said:
While I'm sure that that was likely a major plank in the NRA argument at the time, I do think there are some very real common sense problems with such a "round up". For example, how do we find out who owns such a clip? Who comes and picks up the clip? Who pays for the agents to go around collecting the clips from these owners? And so on.
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Sure, but I think what you do is instead of all that you just have people voluntarily give them up. Sometimes cities will have folks just turn guns in to them to get rid of them. Thus you continually make them more and more rare over time. Law abiding citizens for the most part would stop using them immediately if they were informed that they were illegal.

I don't think a round up is logical nor common sense.
 
Re: Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

ScoobyDoo said:
Sure, but I think what you do is instead of all that you just have people voluntarily give them up. Sometimes cities will have folks just turn guns in to them to get rid of them. Thus you continually make them more and more rare over time. Law abiding citizens for the most part would stop using them immediately if they were informed that they were illegal.

I don't think a round up is logical nor common sense.
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Hmm, agreed. However, that's not really something you legislate right? That's more of suggestion for what towns and cities can do.
 
Re: Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

WeWantMore said:
While I'm sure that that was likely a major plank in the NRA argument at the time, I do think there are some very real common sense problems with such a "round up". For example, how do we find out who owns such a clip? Who comes and picks up the clip? Who pays for the agents to go around collecting the clips from these owners? And so on.
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That pesky 4th amendment
 
Re: Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

ScoobyDoo said:
Sure, but I think what you do is instead of all that you just have people voluntarily give them up. Sometimes cities will have folks just turn guns in to them to get rid of them. Thus you continually make them more and more rare over time. Law abiding citizens for the most part would stop using them immediately if they were informed that they were illegal.

I don't think a round up is logical nor common sense.
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Sure, cities have gun buyback programs, and in the abstract it's certainly not a bad idea to get guns, any guns off the street. The problem, as any cop will tell you, is that the guns turned in in these programs are usually antiques or unusable or both. The shiny new Glocks and Uzis and Mac 10s are never, repeat never turned in.
 
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Re: Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

trucker said:
Link? I'm honestly not familiar with that quote. But if he did it he should be condemned also.
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http://hotair.com/archives/2006/10/10/video-kerry-jokes-about-killing-bush/

Kerry really specific about what he was talking about. And I hope (can't know for sure) I would have resisted the temptation to blame him if somebody had taken out Bush. No doubt in my mind that some on my side wouldn't have been able to resist. That certainly doesn't let all the lefties off the hook who've been using ex post facto logic to blame Palin.

Looking for common ground, since I'm a well known "uniter not a divider," in contemplating Loughner's mug shot smirk, am I the only one who wants to push that smirk out the back of his neck?
 
Re: Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

Here's what a Rabbi had to say about Palin's use of Blood Libel.

It's not just inappropriate, it's profoundly ironic. By making this comparison and playing Jew in the picture, the person endangered by a blood libel, she admits that the words people use can have deadly impact.

By claiming that others' words are a blood libel that endangers her, she's at least admitting the prospect that claims her words endangered others could be true.

I'm not giving her a free pass. It was a poor and hurtful analogy. But clearly, she's affirming exactly what her critics charge.
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Re: Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

Old Pio said:
http://hotair.com/archives/2006/10/10/video-kerry-jokes-about-killing-bush/

Kerry really specific about what he was talking about. And I hope (can't know for sure) I would have resisted the temptation to blame him if somebody had taken out Bush. No doubt in my mind that some on my side wouldn't have been able to resist. That certainly doesn't let all the lefties off the hook who've been using ex post facto logic to blame Palin.

Looking for common ground, since I'm a well known "uniter not a divider," in contemplating Loughner's mug shot smirk, am I the only one who wants to push that smirk out the back of his neck?
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Thanks for the link and that's inexcusable. But it is telling that you had to go back 4 years to find something.

And yeah, that smirk is obnoxious especially considering the circumstances.
 
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Re: Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

ScoobyDoo said:
Here's what a Rabbi had to say about Palin's use of Blood Libel.
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Maybe you should change hands, I'm guessing your arm's getting a little tired flogging that disreputable pony. You guys should all be ashamed of yourselves, and this endless parsing about the meaning of the phrase is just another expression of your collective madness. As I and many others have said, all this stuff tells us more about you than it does Sarah Palin.

Meir Kahane was a rabbi, as was the guy who surfaced during Watergate to defend Nixon (Baruch Korff?). Just because someone's a rabbi doesn't prove he's not a nutbar. I don't know anything about this guy, but even if I did, the historical roots of a phrase are interesting, but not necessarily dispositve on usage two millenia (and more) later.
 
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