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America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

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Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

I guess that's why you're more concerned with the people who want to exercise their First Amendment rights without being worried about ending up in the hospital than with the ones who are causing that worry.

I don't think anyone objectively reading this would have come to that conclusion, I believe I've been more than clear on my dislike for people causing crap regardless of their affiliation. Interpret my posts however you feel but I've unambigously stated where I stand.
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

This is awesome. Almost as awesome as that guy getting beat up.

You mean the guy who pretended he needed a wheelchair and then solicited donations for health coverage even though he was already covered by his wife's insurance?

I can see why you'd look up to someone like that. :rolleyes:
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

I don't think anyone objectively reading this would have come to that conclusion, I believe I've been more than clear on my dislike for people causing crap regardless of their affiliation. Interpret my posts however you feel but I've unambigously stated where I stand.

Wait! Come back! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

This is awesome. Almost as awesome as that guy getting beat up.

No what's awesome is when this doesn't pass and we get 20 more years of this crap, OR it does pass and we get 20 more years of this crap.
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

No what's awesome is when this doesn't pass and we get 20 more years of this crap, OR it does pass and we get 20 more years of this crap.

You should root for it to pass, then, since we've been assured that if it does we'll all be dead with one stroke of Obama's pen. :D
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

You should root for it to pass, then, since we've been assured that if it does we'll all be dead with one stroke of Obama's pen. :D

As we've been told, health care only really works if you get enough healthy people to match out all the old people and those who take up health resources otherwise... so of course they're going to try to put as many of you and me into this by any means necessary. After that its just a matter of deciding how much of our national treasure we want to spend on health care. The voters will decide that they don't want to pay so much and then its up to the government's slide rule to decide who doesn't get care because of what their rule book says. Those who cost money will not get treatment... and we've been told we should accept this because its good for us. Its not like they keep these comments secret... they just know they're the ones with the right knowledge (which oddly sounds like a Scientologist's justification.)

But yeah, you're young right now, what's the worry.
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

No what's awesome is when this doesn't pass and we get 20 more years of this crap, OR it does pass and we get 20 more years of this crap.

So is your glass half empty or half full in this scenario? :)
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

AP Fact checker obliterates GOP claims:
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AP fact-checks the "death panel" charge

A pretty blunt rebuke from the wire:

WASHINGTON (AP) - Former Republican vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin says the health care overhaul bill would set up a "death panel." Federal bureaucrats would play God, ruling on whether ailing seniors are worth enough to society to deserve life-sustaining medical care. Palin and other critics are wrong.

Nothing in the legislation would carry out such a bleak vision. The provision that has caused the uproar would instead authorize Medicare to pay doctors for counseling patients about end-of-life care, if the patient wishes. Here are some questions and answers on the controversy:

Q: Does the health care legislation bill promote "mercy killing," or euthanasia?

A: No.

Q: Then what's all the fuss about?

A: A provision in the House bill written by Rep. Earl Blumenauer, D-Ore., would allow Medicare to pay doctors for voluntary counseling sessions that address end-of-life issues. The conversations between doctor and patient would include living wills, making a close relative or a trusted friend your health care proxy, learning about hospice as an option for the terminally ill, and information about pain medications for people suffering chronic discomfort.

The sessions would be covered every five years, more frequently if someone is gravely ill.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Former GOP politico Roger Simon also chimes in...

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0809/25991.html
 
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Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

Sorry - busy packing up my apartment to move on Friday - way behind on my USCHO!

I'll define "reduce spending" as reducing the growth rate of the program. An ever growing population, particularly in the senior ranks as boomers age, isn't going to lead to a dollar reduction over the years, however slowing the rate of growth is the goal.

What do you mean by "the program?" Honest question. Is your definition of success a decrease in the growth rate of government health spending per capita? Or a decrease in the growth rate of *all* health spending per capita? Not quite sure what you said here.

Rover said:
To that end, this will reduce that rate in the following areas: 1) Drug and Medical costs. Both pharma and docs on board with reducing their profits approx $250B over the next decade ($85 drugs, $155 maybe is the medical #). In fact the drug industry wants that amount written into the plan so as they won't be asked to do more. 250 billion dollars is real money.
Can you elaborate a little more? $25B per year may be real money, but that's only $500 for each of the famous "50M" people who will be forced to buy health care under the plan. Their premiums will be 10x that amount, so I'm not going to be losing any sleep worrying about those noble companies' bottom lines. It's not at all clear to me that this will be a net reduction in health care spending per capita.

Rover said:
2) Independent review panel looks at program overall and recommends changes that can only be overriden by Congressional vote, or they are enacted. Base closing program works this way and has saved money.
What sorts of decisions does this panel have authority over? Can they mandate policies (coverages, pre-exisisting condition exclusions, etc) for private insurance companies, or does the panel only have authority over government health programs (Medicare, Medicaid, VA Hospitals, etc)? Does the panel have authority to enact or increase taxes to pay for the government programs? Obviously my concern is that this independent panel could be used to write blank checks for health care (without any elected officials having to get their hands dirty) - seems that this would drastically reduce the incentive for the government to curtail spending when it could just as easily increase revenue instead.

Rover said:
3) Uninsured get insured, which cuts down on costs especially for too frequent ER visits for regular care.
Are there any good non-partisan (I know, I know) studies out there that show how much this would save? Of course there are ER visits by uninsured people, but there are also tons of uninsured people who never go to the ER. Also, if the ones who did use the ER use regular doctors visits instead, the costs are reduced, but certainly not completely eliminated. What is the net change in health spending here?

Rover said:
4) Change in Medicare compensation away from payment by # of procedures done,
What is the new model for Medicare compensation?

Rover said:
5) crack down on fraud in system, really the not much discussed by potentially far reaching cost savings potential.
Ah-ha. One I can totally get on board with! But why do we need other reforms for this to happen? This should be going on regardless.
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

Ten Questions Politicians Won't Answer

Good article by Tom Coburn, one of two doctors in congress. Includes a link to his proposal at the end.

I'm glad you posted it. "Dr. No" can be silly, but the article isn't silly at all. Let's go through the 10 questions briefly.

1. Why do we need to increase spending on health care by at least $1.6 trillion and steal prosperity from our children and grandchildren when we spend nearly twice per person what other industrialized nations spend on health care?

Aside from the red meat language, this is Coburn being consistent on spending. His major project in the Senate is exposing and opposing earmarks, which makes him extremely unpopular among all of his colleagues (my friends on the Hill tell me he is easily most-hated man in the Senate among other Senators, even Republicans, and that's usually a pretty tough title to hold with all the competition).

The answer here is twofold: (1) what's the cost of doing nothing -- if it's greater than $1.6T (or whatever the real price is), it's a better deal; (2) is the country willing to pay the cost -- if so, then it's "worth it," like anything else the government spends on from paper clips to aircraft carriers to programs that benefit Coburn's state.

2. What programs will you cut and whose taxes will you raise to pay for health-care reform?

Great question that should always be asked about every program no matter who is for it.

3. What earmarks or pet projects that you have sponsored will you sacrifice to help finance the cost of health-care reform?

See 2.

4. Will you vote for a public option that requires taxpayer-funded abortion?

Pandering. Abortion is a medical procedure. If it's covered, it's covered. This is strictly to whip up emotion among Pro-Lifers, it isn't informational. I don't want to pay for the Iraq War, but I am. That's what happens when you lose elections.

5. If the public option is so wonderful, will you lead by example and vote for a plan to enroll you and your family in the public option?

This is cheesy bandstand rhetoric, but I gotta say I love it and I would ask it anyway. If I were a member, I'd answer "Yes" in a heartbeat. They're all rich, and they can all afford supplemental private insurance. But it's tub thumping, not a substantive question.

6. Will you vote for a plan that will allow a board of politicians and bureaucrats to override decisions made by you and your doctor?

I'd respond to this by "asking" does he support a system where insurance and health care provider financial decisions prevent your doctor from performing necessary medical procedures? Pure posturing.

7. If you support a “comparative effectiveness” board, what qualifies you, as a politician, to practice medicine? Have you delivered health care to a single person, much less entire classes of people you claim to represent, such as the poor, the uninsured, or children?

More posturing. What qualifies Coburn to pass judgments on policy on any of a hundred different issues that come before him on committee or in the Senate? What is his military expertise? His international finance credentials? His foreign policy experience? The answer to all these is that the Senate doesn't micromanage policy execution -- executive agencies and departments who do have the experience do.

8. How will a government-run public option perform better than other failing government programs, such as Medicare, Medicaid, and Indian Health Care?

"Failing" here is red meat -- one could for example ask how Coburn could continue to support an unfettered free market after its failure during the crash -- but minus the rhetoric it would be good to debate whether current public programs are run well. People with Medicare defend it fiercely, so apparently it isn't the program that is in trouble but perhaps its funding. Good question for debate.

9. If increasing spending on health care was the solution, why hasn’t it worked yet?

None of the other questions are dumb. This one is laughably dumb -- please tell me I don't have to spell out the logic error.

10. Are you more committed to doing reform right or quickly? Would you consider backing a thoughtful alternative to the public option? If so, which one?

This is a good question that should be asked.

To review:

1, 2 and 3 are standard fiscal conservative questions -- they aren't specific to health care and should be asked of any initiative.

4, 5, 6, 7 and 9 are empty pandering and posturing.

8 and 10 are good questions.

But at least it's a 50% (5 out of 10) good faith effort, and far better than anything else I've seen from the anti side. I'd like to see a knowledgeable, public proponent respond point by point, and then ask Coburn 10 questions of his own -- framing is half the battle.
 
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Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

Pretty good rundown of those ten questions.

I'm just glad that he (barely) avoided the "do you want your doctor's office run like the DMV?" rhetoric that I keep hearing. When you hear that question, that's how you know that you're talking to a brick wall.
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

I'd respond to this by "asking" does he support a system where insurance and health care provider financial decisions prevent your doctor from performing necessary medical procedures"? Pure posturing.

He would probably answer "no" to this question, but then correctly explain that is not our current system anyway. Health insurors can't, and don't, prevent any doctor from performing a necessary medical procedure. Nothing prevents you from paying for it yourself if your contract (and everyone seems to forget it's nothing more than a contract) with your health insuror doesn't call for the insuror to pay it. I've done it any number of times.
 
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