America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

[leswp1]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

it'll remain popular even if it doesn't work... we have a news media who wholly believes that its proper and moral.

Disagree. Propaganda can only go so far. This has been on the agenda for years. Wasn't getting any traction until things started getting really bad. Interesting to note that open enrollment is now for many places. The options being offered are worse than ever. Wondering if that will push stuff over the edge.

I already have had a family member call me in a panic because the plans offered are all sig more expensive with less coverage of the basic needs. They were looking for me to tell them which plan was best and where was the loophole they could use to be able to affort the plans. There were none.

 

[Slap Shot]

Disagree. Propaganda can only go so far.

Not to mention I've not seen the media ovewhelming push this legislation in the least. If the Strib has articles that call it into question I imagine anyone of them can/have.

 

[Kepler]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

it'll remain popular even if it doesn't work... we have a news media who wholly believes that its proper and moral.

There's an attack machine in the pay of special interests that will demonize it unceasingly no matter how well it performs, so the media bias is a wash, at best. The media loves nothing so much as a good scandal, so you can also look forward to an endless string of stories on how Grandma Moses claims she got hosed on her fifth bypass (ignoring that she wouldn't have gotten the first four when she didn't have insurance).

 

[DrDemento]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Disagree. Propaganda can only go so far. This has been on the agenda for years. Wasn't getting any traction until things started getting really bad. Interesting to note that open enrollment is now for many places. The options being offered are worse than ever. Wondering if that will push stuff over the edge.

I already have had a family member call me in a panic because the plans offered are all sig more expensive with less coverage of the basic needs. They were looking for me to tell them which plan was best and where was the loophole they could use to be able to affort the plans. There were none.

Here in NJ one tactic to keep costs low is to just change companies every 5 years or so. Since most increases have been across the board percentage increases-the longer you stay with a company the more expensive each increase becomes. We found recently switching save us a lot. In NJ companies must accept you if you show that you have current coverage. Not sure if that is universal in other states. I must admit though that over the years we have been forced to take higher deductibles and copays as the companies keep changing their coverages.

 

[leswp1]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Here in NJ one tactic to keep costs low is to just change companies every 5 years or so. Since most increases have been across the board percentage increases-the longer you stay with a company the more expensive each increase becomes. We found recently switching save us a lot. In NJ companies must accept you if you show that you have current coverage. Not sure if that is universal in other states. I must admit though that over the years we have been forced to take higher deductibles and copays as the companies keep changing their coverages.

This used to be the case but now every option is bad. For awhile the companies were trying to underbid each other. They did that so much that they couldn't sustain. We lost some options as some companies were bought out/went under. Now there are less options and they are all offering significanly less for more $. LOTS of plans that exclude random testing, meds etc that have always been standard. To pick a plan now you need to really pay attention.

 

[DrDemento]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

This used to be the case but now every option is bad. For awhile the companies were trying to underbid each other. They did that so much that they couldn't sustain. We lost some options as some companies were bought out/went under. Now there are less options and they are all offering significanly less for more $. LOTS of plans that exclude random testing, meds etc that have always been standard. To pick a plan now you need to really pay attention.

I have to agree with you. With over 35 years of experience dealing with these plans as a physician it used to be far simpler. Now that Jenny and I have our own plans (we no longer qualify for our group plan at work since we are part time) it has been difficult at best to figure out where to turn. Every plan has it's weak points but we have changed companies every 5 years and have seen savings on premiums of over $1000 for each of us every time. You are correct though that they keep excluding more and more from the policies and forcing higher deductibles and copays. One other problem here in NJ is that so few companies offer individual policies-they are only interested in offering group plans to large groups.

 

[dropthatpuck]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

The chickens are coming home to roost for the dems.

 

[MinnFan]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Republicans about to unveil alternative health care plan

Highlights include:

-Increasing incentives for people to use health savings accounts
-Capping non-economic awards in medical malpractices cases
-Incentives for states to drive down premium costs
-Allowing health insurance to be sold across state lines

 

[unofan]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Highlights include:

-Increasing incentives for people to use health savings accounts
-Capping non-economic awards in medical malpractices cases
-Incentives for states to drive down premium costs
-Allowing health insurance to be sold across state lines

HSA's only help with the day to day stuff unless you're ultra-rich; they don't help in the case of a catastrophic injury. There's a reason most people, and frankly most businesses or municipalities, can't "self-insure." I can save for my allergy meds. I can probably save enough for treatment for a broken arm. I can't save for cancer treatments, medical care following a stroke, or open heart surgery.

Capping non-economic awards (basically, punitive damages) will have a minimal impact. Include it, yes, but making it a central theme is a strawman.

Yes, because states have the magical power to reduce the prices of ultrasounds, MRI scans, and the like.

Selling across state lines is fine.

 

[leswp1]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Until they make a massive overhaul of the regulations for requirements for coverage that vary in every state, the across state lines piece may sound good but truly would be next to impossible. You would need a few Post-Doc degrees to figure out how to make it work and I am pretty sure a t least a few states have diametrically opposed regs.

 

[Rover]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Until they make a massive overhaul of the regulations for requirements for coverage that vary in every state, the across state lines piece may sound good but truly would be next to impossible. You would need a few Post-Doc degrees to figure out how to make it work and I am pretty sure a t least a few states have diametrically opposed regs.

Yeah, I already crushed this idea a thousand pages ago the last time MinnFan posted it. I believe he thought that insurance companies out of state could decide what to cover for you, where I pointed out that much like car insurance, where the company is located doesn't dictate coverage, state law where the policyholder is does. The only way to make it work would be a massive government mandate overriding state law, which seems to go against modern day conservatism.

Short of that, the bureacratic nightmare of having each individual health provider figure out the policies of a thousand different insurers doesn't sound like it'll be reducing costs anytime soon...

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

HSA's only help with the day to day stuff unless you're ultra-rich; they don't help in the case of a catastrophic injury. There's a reason most people, and frankly most businesses or municipalities, can't "self-insure." I can save for my allergy meds. I can probably save enough for treatment for a broken arm. I can't save for cancer treatments, medical care following a stroke, or open heart surgery.

From my understanding you still wouldn't need to, unless this is different from the plan I have starting next year.

For 2010, if I outspend my medical savings account (I chose $1,800 annual to be paid incrementally from each paycheck) I would be responsible for 100% of the difference until I reach my yearly $3,000 deductible. At that point my plan kicks in and pays x% of services rendered, the same as it would with my current more traditional plan (beyond the $800 annual deductible) through the end of 2009.

So if for instance I were to incur $3,000 worth of services, the total contributions to the savings plan, plus deductible and plus premiums (far less next year) would be slightly more than my current premiums and yearly deductible depending upon the number of total visits (co-pays this year, no co-pays next year). But as a percentage of everything paid out that difference drops dramatically as the costs go up. In addition if it’s more of a normal year and our costs are under $1,800 I can roll the difference to the following year and could end up spending less.

 

[geezer]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

From my understanding you still wouldn't need to, unless this is different from the plan I have starting next year.

For 2010, if I outspend my medical savings account (I chose $1,800 annual to be paid incrementally from each paycheck) I would be responsible for 100% of the difference until I reach my yearly $3,000 deductible...

This is the same plan we've been on for a year now. I like it. But there is an incentive not to see the doctor until it's life-threatening, since if I go in and it's not really pneumonia (treatable), I'm paying the full cost of the dr. visit for nothing. If more people were on it, it definitely cuts down on the # of dr. visits. I'll be curious to see how that affects "severity of illness per visit" as more companies seem to be going this way.
It does make people more involved in their own preventive care, health education etc. which is one of the big reasons I like it.

 

[leswp1]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

This is the same plan we've been on for a year now. I like it. But there is an incentive not to see the doctor until it's life-threatening, since if I go in and it's not really pneumonia (treatable), I'm paying the full cost of the dr. visit for nothing. If more people were on it, it definitely cuts down on the # of dr. visits. I'll be curious to see how that affects "severity of illness per visit" as more companies seem to be going this way.
It does make people more involved in their own preventive care, health education etc. which is one of the big reasons I like it.

From the other end~ I detest those plans. Theoretically you would think it would force people to do what you say. The opposite is true. The patient thinks they can tell me how to code the visit so they don't have to pay and gets incensed that I am not understanding enough to write what they want. If I do things like that it is fraud. They also like to try and get lots of free advice on the phone so they do not need to come in. Unlike lawyers, who get paid for every time they think of a case, we get all the liability if we try and handle something over the phone but zero reimbursement.

 

[DrDemento]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

From the other end~ I detest those plans. Theoretically you would think it would force people to do what you say. The opposite is true. The patient thinks they can tell me how to code the visit so they don't have to pay and gets incensed that I am not understanding enough to write what they want. If I do things like that it is fraud. They also like to try and get lots of free advice on the phone so they do not need to come in. Unlike lawyers, who get paid for every time they think of a case, we get all the liability if we try and handle something over the phone but zero reimbursement.

Ditto-My lawyer charges me for 10 minutes increments on the phone-gosh I wish I could do that for the medical advice I give.

 

[Terrierbyassociation]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Ditto-My lawyer charges me for 10 minutes increments on the phone-gosh I wish I could do that for the medical advice I give.

You guys are so whiny, and we have to deal with the liability of our advice as well, just like you guys.

 

[Patman]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Republicans about to unveil alternative health care plan

Highlights include:

-Increasing incentives for people to use health savings accounts
-Capping non-economic awards in medical malpractices cases
-Incentives for states to drive down premium costs
-Allowing health insurance to be sold across state lines

seriously, HSAs are only for those "self-sufficiency" idealists. The general principle of insurance works... spreading the risk against a calamitous tomorrow. IMO, I'd still like to see some mechanism to streamline the business process to reduce overhead mechanisms.

 

[dropthatpuck]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

...and we have to deal with the liability of our advice as well, just like you guys.

Come on now. How much liability is there defending vagrants. What are they going to do - club you with their brown bag wrapped bottle of Mad Dog?

 

[Kepler]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Is there anybody who thinks the Republican proposal is anything other than an attempt to bleed just enough support away from the Baucus bill to kill health care reform?

 

[joecct]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Is there anybody who thinks the Republican proposal is anything other than an attempt to bleed just enough support away from the Baucus bill to kill health care reform?

But is either bill a reform or a massive entitlement program?