America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

[Kepler]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Trouble is, NOBODY, but a select few, knows what will be in the final bill. I just don't trust them to do anything sensible.

This is not an argument against you, but, how is that different from any other major piece of legislation in the last 20 years?

I propose a new procedural regulation in the spirit of those quaint requirements of having to post obituaries in the newspaper for 3 days so the creditors in the next township have time to ride to city hall and contest the will.

Prior to the final vote, the full text of every Congressional Act must be posted on the internet for 100 hours. No further amendments allowed -- a final up or down vote to be conducted after the expiration of the time.

There are ten million pairs of eyes with nothing better to do than pour over each convoluted provision, each hidden industry giveaway, each unenforceable, unfunded, incomprehensible and/or contradictory clause. Let the blogosphere go insane exhausting itself on the language, and exercising each and every detail. That many people could translate the most densely-packed 2000-page pile of obscurantist legalese into English in one day, let alone 4.

 

[trucker]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Question: Is mandating that everyone buy health insurance consitutional? Arguments on either side, please.

There's now way this should be part of any reform whether it's Constitutional or not. This provision shows why a public option is critical for reform that would actually benefit the average Joe.

 

[joecct]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

This is not an argument against you, but, how is that different from any other major piece of legislation in the last 20 years?

I propose a new procedural regulation in the spirit of those quaint requirements of having to post obituaries in the newspaper for 3 days so the creditors in the next township have time to ride to city hall and contest the will.

Prior to the final vote, the full text of every Congressional Act must be posted on the internet for 100 hours. No further amendments allowed -- a final up or down vote to be conducted after the expiration of the time.

There are ten million pairs of eyes with nothing better to do than pour over each convoluted provision, each hidden industry giveaway, each unenforceable, unfunded, incomprehensible and/or contradictory clause. Let the blogosphere go insane exhausting itself on the language, and exercising each and every detail. That many people could translate the most densely-packed 2000-page pile of obscurantist legalese into English in one day, let alone 4.

But this Administration / Congress promised that all legislation would be up for 72 hours on the web before a signing / vote would take place. Their track record on that promise is not, well, promising.

If you're going to slip an antitrust exemption into some highway authorization bill, fine. That's chicken feed to the American public. The Health Care bill will have a profound effect on us all and deserves long and careful consideration before a vote and a potential signing. IMO, the Health Care debate should have lasted most of the 111th Congress's session (on and off) before they voted on it.

Just a thought, but is this the case of the Dems making hay while the sun shines? If they know/suspect that their bullet proof majority will expire in January 2011, then is it in their best interest to get the "radical" legislation through now when they can ram it through without GOP support?

 

[blockski]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

The debate's been going on for 70 some years...

get on with it!

 

[Kepler]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

is this the case of the Dems making hay while the sun shines? If they know/suspect that their bullet proof majority will expire in January 2011, then is it in their best interest to get the "radical" legislation through now when they can ram it through without GOP support?

I'd put it a different way: "use it or lose it." The public gave the Dems what is by historical standards a very strong mandate. If they, in Darth Penguin's words, "dither," they deserve the loss of support that will inevitably follow.

The "radical" position is single payer. They were already bulldozed out of that into the watered-down public option. Now they're being bulldozed out of that, and even with the limp Baucus retreat obviously the beneficiaries of the status quo will scream the "S" word at the top of their lungs to try to thwart any change. Why the Dems ever thought they were going to get a serious debate from the other side is beyond me, but having given it the old college try it's now time to use the majorities the electorate gave them. To do otherwise is to be held hostage by a small, democratically-unsuccessful, fringe. If the blue dogs allow themselves to be cowed by them, they'll lose their Dem backing and then lose their seats to real Republicans. They don't have to even be brave -- just not stupid.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Gotta love United Health denying coverage to a little girl just for being underweight.

Great system. No changes needed.

 

[Kepler]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Gotta love United Health denying coverage to a little girl just for being underweight.

Great system. No changes needed.

Pfft. ***** could eat if she wanted.

 

[leswp1]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Conversation today with "I am a Pharmacist" (Pause while I genuflect) [State insurance plan] does NOT pay for generic triptans (migraine medications) only 2 name brands. They also will not pay fro the prevention medication because I did not submit the correct information. This information was not requested on the form. They would not take this info over the phone. Start again. fill out the form again. And where would they like me to put the info on the form as there is no space for it? " I don't know". Oh, and I shouldn't expect them to believe me, I should submit more cdocumentation. "What do you expect? That you can just tell us that the patient had this before and we will give it to them?" No, I expect you would respect my medical opinion you sorry piece of crap, and think about allt he $ it is costing the patient in lost wages and medication while you are on a power trip because you .....are a pharmacist! It will be more than another week before we get this settled. This patient was completely stable before they changed insurances. Now back to baseline and at times incompacitated. If we were in Africa I could get it. We are in the great country of America. Please God will someone do something about the system before I leap of the bridge stark raving MAD!!!

 

[DrDemento]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Conversation today with "I am a Pharmacist" (Pause while I genuflect) [State insurance plan] does NOT pay for generic triptans (migraine medications) only 2 name brands. They also will not pay fro the prevention medication because I did not submit the correct information. This information was not requested on the form. They would not take this info over the phone. Start again. fill out the form again. And where would they like me to put the info on the form as there is no space for it? " I don't know". Oh, and I shouldn't expect them to believe me, I should submit more cdocumentation. "What do you expect? That you can just tell us that the patient had this before and we will give it to them?" No, I expect you would respect my medical opinion you sorry piece of crap, and think about allt he $ it is costing the patient in lost wages and medication while you are on a power trip because you .....are a pharmacist! It will be more than another week before we get this settled. This patient was completely stable before they changed insurances. Now back to baseline and at times incompacitated. If we were in Africa I could get it. We are in the great country of America. Please God will someone do something about the system before I leap of the bridge stark raving MAD!!!

Les-This is just so typical nowadays. This along with fighting with HMO's(or at least with their teenage girl representatives on the phone who keep popping gum in my ear) to get something covered for a patient-are the main reasons now that all I do is some consulting work. I have been in medicine long enough (40 years+) to know that the golden years are gone and now that Doctors are considered Providers instead of Physicians and everyone has some control in the system-we are sliding downhill fast. The shame is that the Government has shown repeatedly that it cannot run the system without incredible cost overruns and waste. As a patient i want my Physician (not my provider) to make the decisions affecting my life and I want these decisions carried out without some non-physician interceding.

 

[leswp1]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Les-This is just so typical nowadays. This along with fighting with HMO's(or at least with their teenage girl representatives on the phone who keep popping gum in my ear) to get something covered for a patient-are the main reasons now that all I do is some consulting work. I have been in medicine long enough (40 years+) to know that the golden years are gone and now that Doctors are considered Providers instead of Physicians and everyone has some control in the system-we are sliding downhill fast. The shame is that the Government has shown repeatedly that it cannot run the system without incredible cost overruns and waste. As a patient i want my Physician (not my provider) to make the decisions affecting my life and I want these decisions carried out without some non-physician interceding.

Well, I am an NP so I like provider but other than that- WORD.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Les-This is just so typical nowadays. This along with fighting with HMO's(or at least with their teenage girl representatives on the phone who keep popping gum in my ear) to get something covered for a patient-are the main reasons now that all I do is some consulting work. I have been in medicine long enough (40 years+) to know that the golden years are gone and now that Doctors are considered Providers instead of Physicians and everyone has some control in the system-we are sliding downhill fast. The shame is that the Government has shown repeatedly that it cannot run the system without incredible cost overruns and waste. As a patient i want my Physician (not my provider) to make the decisions affecting my life and I want these decisions carried out without some non-physician interceding.

The problem with that philosophy is that 40 years ago, the range of options available to the physicians ran from hundreds to (let's say) $10k for the most expensive course of treatment possible. In 1970, the Fed minimum wage was $1.45, so $10k was only 3.5x the annual salary of someone working minimum wage. Today, the AVERAGE cost of a heart transplant is $700k and annual minimum wage is $14,500, so a heart transplant is nearly 50x minimum wage. It's not so much more expensive because of inefficiency in the system or because of med-mal insurance or evil HMOs or meddling government bureaucrats - we're comparing apples and oranges when we look at the treatments being provided today as compared with 40 years ago.

Pandora's box is open - medical research has provided us with a dazzling array of amazing new treatments. The problem is that once a particular treatment is possible, EVERYONE feels they're entitled to it and every doctor thinks he ought to be allowed to prescribe it without some government official "interceding." The fact is, we absolutely, 100%, no-questions-asked HAVE to have rationing. As a country, we cannot possibly afford to provide everyone with the latest and greatest treatment at all times - there's not enough money in the entire US economy for that. The only question is whether that rationing will be done by insurance company accountants or government bureaucrats. Pick your poison, but it's already poured.

Better start building up an immunity to iocaine powder now...

 

[busterman62]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Both of your comments are spot on. For those reasons, I'm currently in the process of winding down my outpt practice (Geriatrics) and moving towards being totally a hospitalist. Different set of headaches but still (at least for now) better. I'm kind of sad because I really love caring for the elderly but the hassles are just getting to be too much. When this gets too bad, my next move is to become a prison physician.

 

[geezer]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

A fascinating story on NPR this morning proves that monkeys have a better grasp of Economics (supply and demand) than Obama, Pelosi, or any of their supporters that support the gov't driving doctors out of business.

 

[Kepler]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

A fascinating story on NPR this morning proves that monkeys have a better grasp of Economics (supply and demand) than Obama, Pelosi, or any of their supporters that support the gov't driving doctors out of business.

Monkeys also express themselves by throwing their feces. They are like Republicans in all sorts of ways.

 

[joecct]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Monkeys also express themselves by throwing their feces. They are like Republicans in all sorts of ways.

But the GOP poop does not stink!

 

[ScottM]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

When this gets too bad, my next move is to become a prison physician.

Heh. A friend of mine, who is in medical school, is doing a rotation at the Cook County Jail. She says it's "interesting".

 

[Rover]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Looks like the public option is back on the table. Not sure how the medical people out here on the board feel about that. If I had to predict, I'd say that it'll be a trigger/opt-out for states to participate in. As in, if certain cost reductions don't occur then a public option automatically kicks in all states that haven't seen the targeted savings unless they decide to exclude themselves. That should bring the various factions (house libs, Snowe, blue dogs, Nelson, Lincoln, etc) along for the ride.

 

[DrDemento]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Heh. A friend of mine, who is in medical school, is doing a rotation at the Cook County Jail. She says it's "interesting".

In my early days in training at Boston University Hospital as a resident-I spent several weeks at Walpole Prison. The only thing interesting there was I had Albert DeSalvo as a patient.

 

[Plante26]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Why not give way less money to the states to expand their progams? This would be far cheaper and would keep national politics out of it.

 

[Kepler]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

But the GOP poop does not stink!

True. But it's made from the blood of virgins they consume during Blood Sacrifice Prayer Breakfast, so it sticks.