America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

[busterman62]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

An interesting article about alternatives to med-mal litigation that are being shopped around in DC, as well as some cost estimates related to defensive medical care paid by Medicare and Medicaid.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091020/ap_on_go_co/us_health_care_medical_malpractice

I'm reminded of a phrase about a snowball located in Hades

It's unlikely that Congress would pass a law ordering states to adopt health courts. For one thing, trial lawyers are among the biggest contributors to Democratic candidates.

 

[Handyman]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

A bit off topic but one of the ranting media jocks is telling people they would be fools to take the H1N1 vaccine. Not being a good Christian, my first thought was well, that will kill off a bit of the population who are a few french fries short of a happy meal and gullible enough to listen to the guy. He isn't taking it either so ....

I am not gullible (I am being serious lets leave out the attacks) and I am not taking the vaccine...I also dont get flu shots and surprisingly never get the flu.

 

[leswp1]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

I am not gullible (I am being serious lets leave out the attacks) and I am not taking the vaccine...I also dont get flu shots and surprisingly never get the flu.

Everyone has their personal opinion. The ranter was just giving really nutbag reasons for avoiding it.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

I am not gullible (I am being serious lets leave out the attacks) and I am not taking the vaccine...I also dont get flu shots and surprisingly never get the flu.

Purdue U researchers released an announcement yesterday that the peak for H1N1 was hitting sometime this month, but the vaccine isn't widely available yet.

Put another check in the pro-govt-nannies-us column.

 

[moe24]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Purdue U researchers released an announcement yesterday that the peak for H1N1 was hitting sometime this month, but the vaccine isn't widely available yet.

Around here, southwest Michigan, the H1N1 is peaking right now. 26 school districts closed yesterday and today due to the huge number of absences. Local ERs are busting at the seems with flu patients due to media induced paranoia.

 

[leswp1]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Purdue U researchers released an announcement yesterday that the peak for H1N1 was hitting sometime this month, but the vaccine isn't widely available yet.

Put another check in the pro-govt-nannies-us column.

Beautiful example of how our public health system is so diminished, unorganized and underfunded. We do not have even the rudimentary ability to get vaccine or information distributed in an organized manner. Each state has different ways to distribute. Some states are doing it thru DPH, some are doing it thru clinic/ practices and some (like ours) anyone can distribute- work places, pharmacies, clinics,etc. Total CF.

We are not at peak yet, I am tied in with DPH as is the practice I work at. We can not get any info on availability, how it will be distributed except it will be by "lottery" ??!!. Basically we have to tell people that they are on their own and if they can find either of the flu vaccines then they should snap up the opportunity. At present I am on the hunt for both vaccines for my kid who is at the peak of risk- asthma and target age. I probably will be unable to access even with my connections unless I find a CVS with supply that day.

30 yrs ago we had a very strong public health system. You got anything communicable and they followed up with a visit to the person, checked contacts and proactively did stuff to prevent spread of what ever. In our area now, it is mostly an entity that collects statistics and cherry picks a few things to follow (and not well) trying to do as much as it can. Many towns around here have cut the dept to part time or all together so the surrounding towns who are unable to handle their own stuff get calls from uncovered towns as well. Dam scary.

 

[DrDemento]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Beautiful example of how our public health system is so diminished, unorganized and underfunded. We do not have even the rudimentary ability to get vaccine or information distributed in an organized manner. Each state has different ways to distribute. Some states are doing it thru DPH, some are doing it thru clinic/ practices and some (like ours) anyone can distribute- work places, pharmacies, clinics,etc. Total CF.

We are not at peak yet, I am tied in with DPH as is the practice I work at. We can not get any info on availability, how it will be distributed except it will be by "lottery" ??!!. Basically we have to tell people that they are on their own and if they can find either of the flu vaccines then they should snap up the opportunity. At present I am on the hunt for both vaccines for my kid who is at the peak of risk- asthma and target age. I probably will be unable to access even with my connections unless I find a CVS with supply that day.

30 yrs ago we had a very strong public health system. You got anything communicable and they followed up with a visit to the person, checked contacts and proactively did stuff to prevent spread of what ever. In our area now, it is mostly an entity that collects statistics and cherry picks a few things to follow (and not well) trying to do as much as it can. Many towns around here have cut the dept to part time or all together so the surrounding towns who are unable to handle their own stuff get calls from uncovered towns as well. Dam scary.

Les-have read virtually all of your posts on this thread and have not disagreed with anything you have said. However, sometimes it is in the better interest of the community when we do not rush and institute treatments or innoculations as fast as often happens in other countries. I am sure you are aware of what happened when European countries allowed the use of an antinausea drug in pregnancy years ago while the US held back approval(Thalidomide). I was part of the original Swine Flu scare in 1976 at Ft Dix NJ. As a physician there I saw first hand the almost too quick response that we made by innoculating everyone because of a single case of Swine Flu discovered. The emergence of hundreds of cases of Guillain-Barre Syndrome and the resultant paralysis of many still defies any explanation and may well indeed be causally related to the vaccine given. Perhaps I am over cautious but I just feel a tad uncomfortable with any new vaccine that is rushed to market without extensive testing. I realize the danger of the flu-I am aware of the statistics of how many deaths occur yearly. Jenny and I have already taken our season flu shots along with the Pneumococcal pneumonia shot(unfortunately we ARE that old to need it) but we still have some reservations about H1N1 shots at least for us. After a year of experience, when they will probably incorporate the H1N1 into next year's seasonal flu shot-I will feel a lot more confident about taking the shot. I don't minimize the dangers of H1N1-I just would like to know a little more about sequellae before I rush for a Swine Flu shot for myself. Perhaps if I had young children I would react differently since this virus seems to behave very differently from all the flu variants we have seen recently and favors the young more than the elderly. Basically agree with and love your comments on the health system but had to put my 2 cents in.

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

30 yrs ago we had a very strong public health system. You got anything communicable and they followed up with a visit to the person, checked contacts and proactively did stuff to prevent spread of what ever. In our area now, it is mostly an entity that collects statistics and cherry picks a few things to follow (and not well) trying to do as much as it can. Many towns around here have cut the dept to part time or all together so the surrounding towns who are unable to handle their own stuff get calls from uncovered towns as well. Dam scary.

Good thing we ended that communistic endeavor. For the sake of the consumer. And to keep those Russkies from putting more flouride in our water.

On an (un)related note: there is now a "skinny child" counterpart to the "your baby is too fat to be insured" story of last week.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33411196/ns/today-today_health/?GT1=43001

First, a Colorado baby was turned down for health insurance for being too big. Now, another Colorado child has been turned down for health insurance for being too small.

Just a week after TODAY highlighted the story of 4-month-old Alex Lange, who at 17 pounds was considered obese, the show presented Wednesday the equally curious case of 2-year-old Aislin Bates, who at 22 pounds was turned down for health insurance for not meeting a proposed insurer’s height and weight standards.

 

[leswp1]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Les-have read virtually all of your posts on this thread and have not disagreed with anything you have said. However, sometimes it is in the better interest of the community when we do not rush and institute treatments or innoculations as fast as often happens in other countries. I am sure you are aware of what happened when European countries allowed the use of an antinausea drug in pregnancy years ago while the US held back approval(Thalidomide). I was part of the original Swine Flu scare in 1976 at Ft Dix NJ. As a physician there I saw first hand the almost too quick response that we made by innoculating everyone because of a single case of Swine Flu discovered. The emergence of hundreds of cases of Guillain-Barre Syndrome and the resultant paralysis of many still defies any explanation and may well indeed be causally related to the vaccine given. Perhaps I am over cautious but I just feel a tad uncomfortable with any new vaccine that is rushed to market without extensive testing. I realize the danger of the flu-I am aware of the statistics of how many deaths occur yearly. Jenny and I have already taken our season flu shots along with the Pneumococcal pneumonia shot(unfortunately we ARE that old to need it) but we still have some reservations about H1N1 shots at least for us. After a year of experience, when they will probably incorporate the H1N1 into next year's seasonal flu shot-I will feel a lot more confident about taking the shot. I don't minimize the dangers of H1N1-I just would like to know a little more about sequellae before I rush for a Swine Flu shot for myself. Perhaps if I had young children I would react differently since this virus seems to behave very differently from all the flu variants we have seen recently and favors the young more than the elderly. Basically agree with and love your comments on the health system but had to put my 2 cents in.

Excellent post. I was more ranting on the ineffectiveness and lack of a credible, organized response than the need for everyone to get the H1N1. I wouldn't touch the nasal one with a 10 ft pole. From all the stuff I have read and looked into for L'il the risk is less than the benefit. But the fact that I, as a medical professional, have to work that hard to find out anything should be a very scary commentary on our system as a whole. That we have NO federal organization/control for something like this is like reading back a 100 yrs in public health history before the great public health mavens had huge campaigns to wipe out disease and it was every person for themself.

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

That we have NO federal organization/control for something like this is like reading back a 100 yrs in public health history before the great public health mavens had huge campaigns to wipe out disease and it was every person for themself.

Again with the Communism... sheesh... tell us, why do you want to kill my grandmother? How dare you insist that we learn from mistakes made in the past? What kind of Marxist are you?

 

[Kepler]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

But the fact that I, as a medical professional, have to work that hard to find out anything should be a very scary commentary on our system as a whole. That we have NO federal organization/control for something like this is like reading back a 100 yrs in public health history before the great public health mavens had huge campaigns to wipe out disease and it was every person for themself.

Well said. For those us not in The Biz, it's impossible to do our own research.

 

[DrDemento]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Well said. For those us not in The Biz, it's impossible to do our own research.

Agreed-in fact for those of us in the Biz it isn't much easier.

 

[leswp1]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Again with the Communism... sheesh... tell us, why do you want to kill my grandmother? How dare you insist that we learn from mistakes made in the past? What kind of Marxist are you?

A bad one

 

[SIOUX4EVER]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

FWIW...I found this H1N1 Q&A:

Is the swine flu vaccine safe?
Yes. Its nonvirus components are the same as those used in the seasonal flu vaccine, which has been tested extensively and monitored for serious reactions for several years. The only difference is that in the swine flu vaccine, novel H1N1 virus replaces the influenza A viruses used in the regular vaccine.

I'm still on the fence...the responses don't convince me that the risks of the flu outweigh the risks of the vaccine. But...daughter is 5 and wife is pregnant (due in Dec). Daughter had her regular flu vaccine a month or two ago, but my wife and I have yet to get one (wife might get the regular shot at her next doc visit tomorrow, but I don't think the H1N1 shot is even available yet).

I haven't gotten the shot every year, and I can't recall the last time I had the flu. I'm not anti-medication, just anti-media/government-knee-jerk, which is hard to ignore considering the CDC's "we're all gonna die" campaign earlier this year. Besides, the killer bees are sure to get us before the flu!

 

[Kepler]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

A bad one

"In Bad Soviet Marxism, state serves you."

 

[moe24]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

"In Bad Soviet Marxism, state serves you."

 

[joecct]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Again with the Communism... sheesh... tell us, why do you want to kill my grandmother? How dare you insist that we learn from mistakes made in the past? What kind of Marxist are you?

Your grandmother consumes an inordinate amount of health care resources relative to the taxes she currently pays. Sorry, but the cost / benefit ratio is not in her favor. Treatment is denied.

Scary, huh?

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Your grandmother consumes an inordinate amount of health care resources relative to the taxes she currently pays. Sorry, but the cost / benefit ratio is not in her favor. Treatment is denied.

Scary, huh?

*Yawn*

Your grandmother consumes an inordinate amount of health care resources relative to the insurance premiums she currently pays. We are sorry, but the treatment you've requested is not covered in her package. Treatment is denied. Please see this pamphlet about our extensive coverage plans for hospice care.

Funny how one can get the exact same response regardless of where the coverage comes from, huh?

The only difference? One of these two responses is already happening, while the other one is pre-supposed propaganda. Attack Obama's plan (or whatever plan actually gets signed, if that ever happens) all you want, be my guest. But, for your own sake, please avoid arguments that (1) don't have a foundation in what's actually in the bill, (2) already exist in the status quo. Point to me a section in the bill if/when it gets signed and I'll happily shut up about point #1. But there isn't anything that will change point #2, other than some type of reform.

 

[joecct]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Trouble is, NOBODY, but a select few, knows what will be in the final bill. I just don't trust them to do anything sensible.

Question: Is mandating that everyone buy health insurance consitutional? Arguments on either side, please.

 

[unofan]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Question: Is mandating that everyone buy health insurance consitutional? Arguments on either side, please.

Should it be? Probably not.
Is it going to be? Sure. It'll most likely fall under the commerce clause powers (same reason social security and medicare payments are mandatory). With the exception of two cases from the 1990's under Rehnquist (one involving the fed. prohibition on firearms near schools, can't remember the other) no Federal Law has been struck down on commerce clause grounds since FDR threatened to pack the court in the 30's.