America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

I implied nothing of the sort. But, if you think your company isn't already thinking of axing your health plan (regardless of whether or not the government takes it over or not) you're kidding yourself.

Mine has progressively gotten worse and worse over the years. Good times and bad.

There is no denying that the current system needs reforms but we're not going about it the right way...when has government involvement ever reduced costs for anything? When has any government program ever come in at or below budget? When is the last time the government actually did an efficient job of spending the money it has?

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

There is no denying that the current system needs reforms but we're not going about it the right way...when has government involvement ever reduced costs for anything? When has any government program ever come in at or below budget? When is the last time the government actually did an efficient job of spending the money it has?

I dunno.

Doesn't matter anyway. Even without Health Care in the budget beyond what it is now (which is most of the budget, at State and Federal levels) were pumping the handcart to hell.

So, me no care either way.

 

[joecct]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Consider the source, but this is not a health reform bill.

http://gopleader.gov/UploadedFiles/JEC_Health_Chart_11-7-09.pdf

Call up your representative and tell them to vote no today and tell them that they can do better.

Or else.

 

[Kepler]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Consider the source, but this is not a health reform bill.

http://gopleader.gov/UploadedFiles/JEC_Health_Chart_11-7-09.pdf

Call up your representative and tell them to vote no today and tell them that they can do better.

Or else.

I expected health reform to be simple and fit on the back of an envelope, the way all things that work do. Now let's call the FAA and tell them to ground all aircraft immediately -- those drawings are too complicated.

 

[walrus]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

I expected health reform to be simple and fit on the back of an envelope, the way all things that work do. Now let's call the FAA and tell them to ground all aircraft immediately -- those drawings are too complicated.

I just expected it to work, deep down we all know they're f ucking it up bigtime

 

[Bill]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

WSJ doesn't think much of the Health Care Bill:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703399204574505423751140690.html

 

[Kepler]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

WSJ doesn't think much of the Health Care Bill

Then there has to be something good about it.

If you're regulating a corrupt industry, do the opposite of what the WSJ says. If you're reforming education, do the opposite of what the AFT says.

 

[Kepler]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

House passes Pelosi bill at 12:40 a.m., with an amendment excluding funding for abortion.

 

[leswp1]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

House passes Pelosi bill at 12:40 a.m., with an amendment excluding funding for abortion.

Not a fan of abortion, but a no go for me. As a medical person I am not comfortable with having to counsel a patient on options where a poor person would less access to standard care than a rich one.

What happpens when the pt has medical risk if the preg continues? Oops, sorry! You can cost us a yit load more money. Have a kid that may cost us a yit load of money to try to save (and probably fail) when you go down the tubes medically but... we won't pay 500$ to save you medical complication cos you are too poor to afford real insurance? Shocked they let that one thru.

 

[Kepler]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Shocked they let that one thru.

The bill passed by only 5 votes. As Voltaire said, perfect is the worst enemy of the good.

As baby steps go, this was a pretty long stride.

 

[Slap Shot]

House passes Pelosi bill at 12:40 a.m.....

 

[Foxton]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Not a fan of abortion, but a no go for me. As a medical person I am not comfortable with having to counsel a patient on options where a poor person would less access to standard care than a rich one.

Wouldn't this passage negate the no abortion thing?

The prohibition, introduced by Democratic members, including Rep. Brad Ellsworth, D-Indiana, and Rep. Bart Stupak, D-Michigan, would exclude cases of rape, incest or if the mother's life is in danger.

 

[Kepler]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

If I was opposed to this bill, I wouldn't worry a lot about this particular language in the final law (at least not yet). The Senate battle is going to be much tougher and after that there's going to be conference; there will be more compromises and any final bill that gets passed will have all sorts of additional back-sliding.

The key to this bill might actually be the anti-abortion plank, because that's a club the insurance lobby has always used to block any changes. The opponents can't hide behind that claim any more (not that they won't try).

 

[joecct]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

If I was opposed to this bill, I wouldn't worry a lot about this particular language in the final law (at least not yet). The Senate battle is going to be much tougher and after that there's going to be conference; there will be more compromises and any final bill that gets passed will have all sorts of additional back-sliding.

The key to this bill might actually be the anti-abortion plank, because that's a club the insurance lobby has always used to block any changes. The opponents can't hide behind that claim any more (not that they won't try).

You're assuming that the Senate votes anything out of there. While I think that something will come out given the ghost of Teddy, I hope that it is sufficiently different from the House version to give pause to the leadership in the lower house.

 

[Kepler]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

You're assuming that the Senate votes anything out of there. While I think that something will come out given the ghost of Teddy, I hope that it is sufficiently different from the House version to give pause to the leadership in the lower house.

The only way there won't be big (i.e., vote-changing) differences will be if the Senate passes it in reconciliation, which is not the supporters' preferred option and presupposes Reid being given an IV-drip of Tadalafil.

I think the Blue Dogs call the tune, here, which means a pared-down law that pretty much everybody can live with. It will still pass on party line, but that's because the GOP has put everything on the line of scrimmage to stop it, and must demonize anything that comes out of conference. The GOP moderates who are left in the Senate (all 2 or 3 of them) and House (all 10 or 12) must really appreciate that going into the midterms.

 

[ScottM]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

I find the fact Pelosi, Hoyer and the Prez budget this piece of shiat at $1.2T today, regardless of possible horse trading with the Senate most appalling. 2010 can't get here soon enough, since I will have a chance to vote against my "conservative" Dem MOC who voted for this crap.

 

[blockski]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

There is no denying that the current system needs reforms but we're not going about it the right way...when has government involvement ever reduced costs for anything? When has any government program ever come in at or below budget? When is the last time the government actually did an efficient job of spending the money it has?

So, what's the better way? The GOP alternate house plan, when analyzed by the CBO, did nothing to increase coverage (it barely kept up with population growth) and barely cut costs.

The Democratic bill, in other words, covers 12 times as many people and saves $36 billion more than the Republican plan. And amazingly, the Democratic bill has already been through three committees and a merger process. It's already been shown to interest groups and advocacy organizations and industry stakeholders. It's already made its compromises with reality. It's already been through the legislative sausage grinder. And yet it saves more money and covers more people than the blank-slate alternative proposed by John Boehner and the House Republicans. The Democrats, constrained by reality, produced a far better plan than Boehner, who was constrained solely by his political imagination and legislative skill.

This is a major embarrassment for the Republicans. It's one thing to keep your cards close to your chest. Republicans are in the minority, after all, and their plan stands no chance of passage. It's another to lay them out on the table and show everyone that you have no hand, and aren't even totally sure how to play the game. The Democratic plan isn't perfect, but in comparison, it's looking astonishingly good.

 

[Bill]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Another good article from the WSJ on the hidden costs in the health care bill:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703932904574511794170939688.html

 

[Plante26]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

So, what's the better way?

That's not a good answer. That is basically saying, "Your sh*tty idea s*cks, so we're going with our sh*tty idea instead."

Instead of requiring all Americans to have health coverage--government-provided or not--Congress should first require every able-bodied citizen to have a job--even if it means creating low-level government grunt work-type jobs.....at least they'd be paying for some of what would otherwise be free health care. That would be a nice start in my book.

 

[leswp1]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Wouldn't this passage negate the no abortion thing?

That is better.

Has anyone looked at the cost of what would happen if we stuck with the status quo? People keep mentioning the cost but I can't see how we can do nothing. The premiums are going up and the reimbursement (at least where we are) is going down. Where are all the $ going?