Re: A Discussion of US Immigration Policy
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A Discussion of US Immigration Policy
- Thread starter FreshFish
- Start date
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Kepler
Cornell Big Red
Re: A Discussion of US Immigration Policy
US Constitution, Article 2, Section 2:
Does this mean, in theory at least, that he could grant a pardon to all non-US citizens residing in the US without green cards, visas, and passports?
If he is going to mess around with immigration policy, I wish he'd do it this way and at least avoid a "Constitutional crisis" (whatever that means). Clearly he has this authority and other Presidents have used it before.
Though it would be far better still if he worked with Congress on a truly bi-partisan bill. Congress has come close twice, once in 2006 (McCain - Kennedy if you can believe it!) and again last year.
US Constitution, Article 2, Section 2:
Does this mean, in theory at least, that he could grant a pardon to all non-US citizens residing in the US without green cards, visas, and passports?
If he is going to mess around with immigration policy, I wish he'd do it this way and at least avoid a "Constitutional crisis" (whatever that means). Clearly he has this authority and other Presidents have used it before.
Though it would be far better still if he worked with Congress on a truly bi-partisan bill. Congress has come close twice, once in 2006 (McCain - Kennedy if you can believe it!) and again last year.
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Re: A Discussion of US Immigration Policy
Time to move on to the next thing.
A constitutional crisis would be a welcome reprieve. I, for one, am tired of Ebola, the threat of Republican reign in Congress and Ferguson.
Time to move on to the next thing.
Kepler
Cornell Big Red
Re: A Discussion of US Immigration Policy
Real reform is going to have to be bipartisan, but I don't see anything happening with the current GOP. It's not that they don't want to -- there is literally NOTHING they want more than to detoxify the issue as soon as possible. But they're in a bind (granted: of their own making) where the True Believers won't let them budge.
If we get anything in the short-term it will be another punt down the road, which is actually probably the best outcome Latinos can hope for since the environment is only going to get better for them the longer the sides wait to come to terms.
Long-term there's going to be full amnesty for everybody here over x years (x somewhere around 10) and their families who doesn't have a felony record back home. How long it takes to get there kinda comes down to how much damage the far right is willing to inflict on the GOP before they let it go. This election result is going to set the clock back to zero. "We won, so why change?"
Real reform is going to have to be bipartisan, but I don't see anything happening with the current GOP. It's not that they don't want to -- there is literally NOTHING they want more than to detoxify the issue as soon as possible. But they're in a bind (granted: of their own making) where the True Believers won't let them budge.
If we get anything in the short-term it will be another punt down the road, which is actually probably the best outcome Latinos can hope for since the environment is only going to get better for them the longer the sides wait to come to terms.
Long-term there's going to be full amnesty for everybody here over x years (x somewhere around 10) and their families who doesn't have a felony record back home. How long it takes to get there kinda comes down to how much damage the far right is willing to inflict on the GOP before they let it go. This election result is going to set the clock back to zero. "We won, so why change?"
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Re: A Discussion of US Immigration Policy
The crazy conspiracy theory is that Obama also wants a Constitutional crisis: he gets impeached by the House, found not guilty by the Senate, and then does whatever the he** he d*mn well pleases without any fear of recrimination. I sure hope that is just crazy talk.
The crazy conspiracy theory is that Obama also wants a Constitutional crisis: he gets impeached by the House, found not guilty by the Senate, and then does whatever the he** he d*mn well pleases without any fear of recrimination. I sure hope that is just crazy talk.
Kepler
Cornell Big Red
Re: A Discussion of US Immigration Policy
Why would you think it isn't crazy talk?
I just can't wrap my mind around the Obama Derangement sometimes. Yes, he's of the other party and thus The Boogeyman, but the dude has done nothing in six years to justify the kind of terror that GOPers have of him. It's like accusing Bush Senior of being a power-mad autocrat.
Here's what's going to happen in 2015. Every time they need to goose the base for some cash, the Congressional leadership will pass an End That Thar Nazi Obamacare! bill. Obama will veto it. There will much gnashing of teeth about "defying the popular will." The cash machine will ring up another few million for each side. Wait a few months, rinse and repeat. Maybe they'll float impeachment to see if they can really strike it rich.
Come 2016 the campaigns will overwhelm everything. We'll see BENGHAZI!!!111! Theater in the hopes that the sheer repetition of screaming fits about Hillary will stick some mud to her. We'll be treated to AFTER CAREFUL RESEARCH WE HAVE DETERMINED OHNOES!!! SHE'S WORSE THAN HITLER!!111! And then everybody will forget about Obama. Bill Clinton barely surfaced during 2000. And then after the conventions there will be one final orgasm of crackpot conspiracy theories about Obama is going to cancel the election AND DECLARE SHARIA LAW!!!!! And Louie Gohmert will believe every one of them.
And then the election will come and the GOP will give back 6 Senate seats and wonder "WTH?" And if they're not careful and nominate another guy from the clown car we'll be saddled with Elizabeth Bathory for 4 long years.
Why would you think it isn't crazy talk?
I just can't wrap my mind around the Obama Derangement sometimes. Yes, he's of the other party and thus The Boogeyman, but the dude has done nothing in six years to justify the kind of terror that GOPers have of him. It's like accusing Bush Senior of being a power-mad autocrat.
Here's what's going to happen in 2015. Every time they need to goose the base for some cash, the Congressional leadership will pass an End That Thar Nazi Obamacare! bill. Obama will veto it. There will much gnashing of teeth about "defying the popular will." The cash machine will ring up another few million for each side. Wait a few months, rinse and repeat. Maybe they'll float impeachment to see if they can really strike it rich.
Come 2016 the campaigns will overwhelm everything. We'll see BENGHAZI!!!111! Theater in the hopes that the sheer repetition of screaming fits about Hillary will stick some mud to her. We'll be treated to AFTER CAREFUL RESEARCH WE HAVE DETERMINED OHNOES!!! SHE'S WORSE THAN HITLER!!111! And then everybody will forget about Obama. Bill Clinton barely surfaced during 2000. And then after the conventions there will be one final orgasm of crackpot conspiracy theories about Obama is going to cancel the election AND DECLARE SHARIA LAW!!!!! And Louie Gohmert will believe every one of them.
And then the election will come and the GOP will give back 6 Senate seats and wonder "WTH?" And if they're not careful and nominate another guy from the clown car we'll be saddled with Elizabeth Bathory for 4 long years.
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Jimjamesak
Already insane, UAA making it worse
Re: A Discussion of US Immigration Policy
It's pretty easy future to predict. Obama exec orders amnesty. House votes to impeach. Senate doesn't convict. And then we're at "deal with it" stage.
It's pretty easy future to predict. Obama exec orders amnesty. House votes to impeach. Senate doesn't convict. And then we're at "deal with it" stage.
Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
Re: A Discussion of US Immigration Policy
I would actually respect the man if he did that. But I doubt the polling numbers support it so he would never do it.
I would actually respect the man if he did that. But I doubt the polling numbers support it so he would never do it.
Re: A Discussion of US Immigration Policy
That would be needlessly provocative, IMHO. Why use an executive order when he can just issue a Presidential pardon?
Like Handyman said, I could respect the latter as a valid exercise of existing Constitutional power, even if I was not exactly pleased with it. The country would soon adapt and move on.
That would be needlessly provocative, IMHO. Why use an executive order when he can just issue a Presidential pardon?
Like Handyman said, I could respect the latter as a valid exercise of existing Constitutional power, even if I was not exactly pleased with it. The country would soon adapt and move on.
Kepler
Cornell Big Red
Re: A Discussion of US Immigration Policy
I wouldn't care for it -- I think it would abuse the intent of the executive pardon -- that should be reserved for individual cases, not to enact policy. To be honest I would like to see executive pardon and commutation scrapped. At best they're a back door to let crooked donors escape jail time (Mark Rich). At worst they're a way to avoid criminal prosecution for serious Constitutional crimes (Richard Nixon).
I wouldn't care for it -- I think it would abuse the intent of the executive pardon -- that should be reserved for individual cases, not to enact policy. To be honest I would like to see executive pardon and commutation scrapped. At best they're a back door to let crooked donors escape jail time (Mark Rich). At worst they're a way to avoid criminal prosecution for serious Constitutional crimes (Richard Nixon).
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Charles I would have liked the idea of executive pardon.
Kepler
Cornell Big Red
Re: A Discussion of US Immigration Policy
Wouldn't work. You still can't pardon yourself.
I actually really like Charles I's statement prior to his execution. That man went to his death knowing he was right, I'll give him that.
(He felt guilty about Strafford, though.)
Wouldn't work. You still can't pardon yourself.
I actually really like Charles I's statement prior to his execution. That man went to his death knowing he was right, I'll give him that.
(He felt guilty about Strafford, though.)
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Re: A Discussion of US Immigration Policy
Next best thing? Ford pardons Nixon after Nixon appoints Ford as VP.
Next best thing? Ford pardons Nixon after Nixon appoints Ford as VP.
Re: A Discussion of US Immigration Policy
I wasn't sure I was hearing things correctly, it sounded like bizarro world....
Harry Reid has blocked the Senate from holding votes on anything for several years. So all of a sudden, Mr. Pen and a Phone says unless Congress acts "by the end of the year" on immigration, He will act unilaterally?
How is this Congress going to be able to do anything with Reid still in charge?? Wouldn't a more appropriate ultimatum from On High be "unless the new Congress acts by the end of next June" or something like that??
I wasn't sure I was hearing things correctly, it sounded like bizarro world....
Harry Reid has blocked the Senate from holding votes on anything for several years. So all of a sudden, Mr. Pen and a Phone says unless Congress acts "by the end of the year" on immigration, He will act unilaterally?
How is this Congress going to be able to do anything with Reid still in charge?? Wouldn't a more appropriate ultimatum from On High be "unless the new Congress acts by the end of next June" or something like that??
Re: A Discussion of US Immigration Policy
Kep, for the millionth time, Republicanism appeals to people frustrated with their own lives. That makes them 1) more likely to vote, and 2) motivated by anger towards someone or something. We can speculate as to why conservatives are frustrated with their own lives (lack of sex, crummy career, feel like dinosaurs, constipation, etc) but Goopers ain't a happy bunch, no matter what the electoral results. That's why people like Ted Cruz are such heroes to them: absolutists who never waver from their so-called principles even if it means never getting what they want enacted into law.
Why would you think it isn't crazy talk?
I just can't wrap my mind around the Obama Derangement sometimes. Yes, he's of the other party and thus The Boogeyman, but the dude has done nothing in six years to justify the kind of terror that GOPers have of him. It's like accusing Bush Senior of being a power-mad autocrat.
Here's what's going to happen in 2015. Every time they need to goose the base for some cash, the Congressional leadership will pass an End That Thar Nazi Obamacare! bill. Obama will veto it. There will much gnashing of teeth about "defying the popular will." The cash machine will ring up another few million for each side. Wait a few months, rinse and repeat. Maybe they'll float impeachment to see if they can really strike it rich.
Come 2016 the campaigns will overwhelm everything. We'll see BENGHAZI!!!111! Theater in the hopes that the sheer repetition of screaming fits about Hillary will stick some mud to her. We'll be treated to AFTER CAREFUL RESEARCH WE HAVE DETERMINED OHNOES!!! SHE'S WORSE THAN HITLER!!111! And then everybody will forget about Obama. Bill Clinton barely surfaced during 2000. And then after the conventions there will be one final orgasm of crackpot conspiracy theories about Obama is going to cancel the election AND DECLARE SHARIA LAW!!!!! And Louie Gohmert will believe every one of them.
And then the election will come and the GOP will give back 6 Senate seats and wonder "WTH?" And if they're not careful and nominate another guy from the clown car we'll be saddled with Elizabeth Bathory for 4 long years.
Kep, for the millionth time, Republicanism appeals to people frustrated with their own lives. That makes them 1) more likely to vote, and 2) motivated by anger towards someone or something. We can speculate as to why conservatives are frustrated with their own lives (lack of sex, crummy career, feel like dinosaurs, constipation, etc) but Goopers ain't a happy bunch, no matter what the electoral results. That's why people like Ted Cruz are such heroes to them: absolutists who never waver from their so-called principles even if it means never getting what they want enacted into law.
unofan
Well-known member
I wasn't sure I was hearing things correctly, it sounded like bizarro world....
Harry Reid has blocked the Senate from holding votes on anything for several years. So all of a sudden, Mr. Pen and a Phone says unless Congress acts "by the end of the year" on immigration, He will act unilaterally?
How is this Congress going to be able to do anything with Reid still in charge?? Wouldn't a more appropriate ultimatum from On High be "unless the new Congress acts by the end of next June" or something like that??
When Harry Reid filibusters his own bill ala McConnell, then you may have a point.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: A Discussion of US Immigration Policy
You're hilarious. It will never cease to amaze me how you rattle on and on about Harry Reid and at the same time paid no attention at all to what Mitch McConnell has done during the same time frame. At least Harry isn't two faced. Mitch's recent speech about how he wants to get things done now that he's in charge is the biggest middle finger to the country ever given by a politician.
I wasn't sure I was hearing things correctly, it sounded like bizarro world....
Harry Reid has blocked the Senate from holding votes on anything for several years. So all of a sudden, Mr. Pen and a Phone says unless Congress acts "by the end of the year" on immigration, He will act unilaterally?
How is this Congress going to be able to do anything with Reid still in charge?? Wouldn't a more appropriate ultimatum from On High be "unless the new Congress acts by the end of next June" or something like that??
You're hilarious. It will never cease to amaze me how you rattle on and on about Harry Reid and at the same time paid no attention at all to what Mitch McConnell has done during the same time frame. At least Harry isn't two faced. Mitch's recent speech about how he wants to get things done now that he's in charge is the biggest middle finger to the country ever given by a politician.