2nd Term Part VIII - The Thin Red Line

[unofan]

Has "live and let live" led to increases in immoral behavior??

No

 

[Handyman]

Re: 2nd Term Part VIII - The Thin Red Line

No it hasnt, because as you said in your little defense of arranged marriages morality is set by society. By that definition there is no immorality because as long as society accepts it it is moral.

Why dont you just say the real reason you dont like it...we all know what it is anyways. You dont like it because the God you pray to who is apparently perfect and loves everyone created a bunch of gay people who he apparently hates. That is the definition of morality for you.

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: 2nd Term Part VIII - The Thin Red Line

No it hasnt, because as you said in your little defense of arranged marriages morality is set by society. By that definition there is no immorality because as long as society accepts it it is moral.

Why dont you just say the real reason you dont like it...we all know what it is anyways. You dont like it because the God you pray to who is apparently perfect and loves everyone created a bunch of gay people who he apparently hates. That is the definition of morality for you.

Actually, I was the one that said that, not him. I fall on your side of this argument, because I wouldn't want the government infringing on my life as much as they are when they say gay marriage is not legal. Also, I hate that our government is wasting time on this topic, instead of so many other issues that I consider more important. From a personal standpoint, I am completely neutral on gay marriage, I'd rather it was just legal everywhere so we can get past this BS.

 

[Rover]

Re: 2nd Term Part VIII - The Thin Red Line

Actually, I was the one that said that, not him. I fall on your side of this argument, because I wouldn't want the government infringing on my life as much as they are when they say gay marriage is not legal. Also, I hate that our government is wasting time on this topic, instead of so many other issues that I consider more important. From a personal standpoint, I am completely neutral on gay marriage, I'd rather it was just legal everywhere so we can get past this BS.

This attitude is where I think Rand Paul has an advantage with the conservative electorate. You can't just tell the base to start liking gay marriage because its the majority opinion in the country. However, if you give it cover by saying the gubmint telling people who they can marry is even worse, it might be seen as a way to get past this issue. I'll be very interested if we get another candidacy based on hard right cultural issues or not.

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: 2nd Term Part VIII - The Thin Red Line

This attitude is where I think Rand Paul has an advantage with the conservative electorate. You can't just tell the base to start liking gay marriage because its the majority opinion in the country. However, if you give it cover by saying the gubmint telling people who they can marry is even worse, it might be seen as a way to get past this issue. I'll be very interested if we get another candidacy based on hard right cultural issues or not.

I get just as annoyed by the far right social standpoint as I do the far left. I consider myself a fiscal conservative, but I think I am fairly "middle ground" or even lean a bit to the left on the social side, even if it doesn't seem like it sometimes.

edit: except for guns, if you consider that a social issue. I am far right on guns.

 

[Rover]

Re: 2nd Term Part VIII - The Thin Red Line

I get just as annoyed by the far right social standpoint as I do the far left. I consider myself a fiscal conservative, but I think I am fairly "middle ground" or even lean a bit to the left on the social side, even if it doesn't seem like it sometimes.

edit: except for guns, if you consider that a social issue. I am far right on guns.

I'm not an expert on libertarianism, but I would think it dovetails with far right thinking on the right to bear arms.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: 2nd Term Part VIII - The Thin Red Line

But what about attitudes towards that behavior?
Abuse - Ray Rice gets 2 games and the NFL calls the punishment "appropriate". People will be cheering him come September.

Outside of Baltimore, I'm pretty sure that he's going to go from a well liked player on the opponent's team to being booed and perhaps even some inventive yet crude wife beating signs. The outrage being focused upon him is finally reaching levels where it should have been long ago. The NFL will see the wrath of this, even if stadiums are still full of cheering fans come time for kickoff.

Adultery - lost the stigmata years ago.

So I read this, and in my mind's eye I see an unmarried (to each other) couple that starts with a large thorned crown wrapped around both their heads at once, a spear piercing both, and so on. Then, all of it becomes magically undone. Just saying.

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: 2nd Term Part VIII - The Thin Red Line

I'm not an expert on libertarianism, but I would think it dovetails with far right thinking on the right to bear arms.

I figure that I have my beliefs/views, and I don't really care if they fit nicely into some box that some politicians have constructed.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: 2nd Term Part VIII - The Thin Red Line

I figure that I have my beliefs/views, and I don't really care if they fit nicely into some box that some politicians have constructed.

Agreed. All this putting people in convenient boxes to label them is stuff for the political wonks.

 

[Jimjamesak]

But what about attitudes towards that behavior?
Abuse - Ray Rice gets 2 games and the NFL calls the punishment "appropriate". People will be cheering him come September.

Adultery - lost the stigmata years ago.

Absenteeism - see pro athletes and babies in every port.

Neglect - Not my problem. I have me to worry about.

Bad Parenting - That's what nannies are for. We're going to Cabo. Do you like our 2 comma lifestyle?

Yep - every instance you've cited is immoral behavior. But do we care anymore? Has "live and let live" led to increases in immoral behavior??

So basically because we believe in the rights of anyone to marry we're all Godless, heathen, immoral people who believe in adultery, abuse, neglect, etc.? Holy hyperbole Batman!

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2nd Term Part VIII - The Thin Red Line

This attitude is where I think Rand Paul has an advantage with the conservative electorate. You can't just tell the base to start liking gay marriage because its the majority opinion in the country. However, if you give it cover by saying the gubmint telling people who they can marry is even worse, it might be seen as a way to get past this issue. I'll be very interested if we get another candidacy based on hard right cultural issues or not.

That didn't work with abortion. I don't think gay marriage is going to carry nearly as much weight, though. They can still use the gays as something to provoke fear with, even if (perhaps especially if) gay marriage is legal in every state.

Hard right cultural issues are always going to play in the parts of the country we can all name by heart. They're just going to have to cool their jets nationally, as they did in the northeast and they are doing in the west. But they're never going to cut evangelicals loose in the parts of the country where they hold the key to victory. They worked hard to capture those people and they're not going to risk losing them.

And when election day rolls around evangelicals will vote GOP the same way liberals vote Dem. Despite getting nothing from the national party, it's still the lesser of two evils.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2nd Term Part VIII - The Thin Red Line

A map of crazy:

Very cool interactive map showing Tea Party favorability by county. I'm guessing it's based on social media analytics. (edit: no, it's a survey outfit)

My home county: 40.2 (embarassing, but understandable since Romney won here by 4 points)
My work county: 22.1

Among the surprises (to me, at least):

NH is way crazier than I expected

SC is oddly sane-ish

ND is way crazier than SD (did we know this?)

MT is the RPI of crazy -- completely chaotic

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2nd Term Part VIII - The Thin Red Line

No crazy is this:

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/first-read/john-boehner-we-have-no-plan-impeach-president-n167561

Also massively delusional. May be the most delusional Speaker we've ever had.

 

[SJHovey]

Re: 2nd Term Part VIII - The Thin Red Line

A map of crazy:

Very cool interactive map showing Tea Party favorability by county. I'm guessing it's based on social media analytics. (edit: no, it's a survey outfit)

My home county: 40.2 (embarassing, but understandable since Romney won here by 4 points)
My work county: 22.1

Among the surprises (to me, at least):

NH is way crazier than I expected

SC is oddly sane-ish

ND is way crazier than SD (did we know this?)

MT is the RPI of crazy -- completely chaotic

I'm curious about their methods. If I read the article right, they surveyed people in just 8 states? Then they combined it with "census demographics" and "turnout history"? Then they did a "validation survey" of people from those 8 states, plus 22 more?

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2nd Term Part VIII - The Thin Red Line

I'm curious about their methods. If I read the article right, they surveyed people in just 8 states? Then they combined it with "census demographics" and "turnout history"? Then they did a "validation survey" of people from those 8 states, plus 22 more?

That sounds to me like they did the first batch to get the raw data to establish the calculation of favorability from the census data, then projected everybody based on the census data, and then did the second batch to validate their calculation. Which is probably OK methodologically, though I don't love it (how do you ensure the 8 states in each batch are a representative sample?)

It's been, literally, 25 years since I did quantitative methodology professionally, and I've forgotten pretty much everything important.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2nd Term Part VIII - The Thin Red Line

FL has a shot at the most unpopular gubernatorial election in at least a decade.

 

[burd]

Re: 2nd Term Part VIII - The Thin Red Line

Let's start with spousal abuse, adultery, absenteeism, neglect, bad parenting, etc. I'd say heteros have that on lock down, champ.

But what about attitudes towards that behavior?
Abuse - Ray Rice gets 2 games and the NFL calls the punishment "appropriate". People will be cheering him come September.

Adultery - lost the stigmata years ago.

Absenteeism - see pro athletes and babies in every port.

Neglect - Not my problem. I have me to worry about.

Bad Parenting - That's what nannies are for. We're going to Cabo. Do you like our 2 comma lifestyle?

Yep - every instance you've cited is immoral behavior. But do we care anymore? Has "live and let live" led to increases in immoral behavior??

Not sure what you meant by that, Joectt.

Using Ray Rice as proof that people do not care anymore about abuse is not only of little value because it is purely anecdotal, I suspect there is a good chance it is flat wrong. I'm sure there are studies that will support or contradict this, but it seems there is far less tolerance these days of spousal abuse, and we haven't been lynching quite as many people as we did in the good old days. Not only did we keep men from marrying men (whatever your definition of "man" is), we also had the wisdom to keep whites from marrying blacks (if not de jure, at least by enforcing our moral code). Men slapped their women around in the privacy of their own homes with impunity, but it was easier to get by with that before we lost our moral compass and allowed women to vote and own land.

Using pro athletes as evidence of absenteeism and wealthy people who hire nannies as evidence of neglect and bad parenting and connected somehow to overall moral decay attributable to what--permissiveness/same sex marriage/reefer madness?

When and where was this golden age?

 

[Slap Shot]

Not sure what you meant by that, Joectt.

Using Ray Rice as proof that people do not care anymore about abuse is not only of little value because it is purely anecdotal, I suspect there is a good chance it is flat wrong. I'm sure there are studies that will support or contradict this, but it seems there is far less tolerance these days of spousal abuse, and we haven't been lynching quite as many people as we did in the good old days. Not only did we keep men from marrying men (whatever your definition of "man" is), we also had the wisdom to keep whites from marrying blacks (if not de jure, at least by enforcing our moral code). Men slapped their women around in the privacy of their own homes with impunity, but it was easier to get by with that before we lost our moral compass and allowed women to vote and own land.

Using pro athletes as evidence of absenteeism and wealthy people who hire nannies as evidence of neglect and bad parenting and connected somehow to overall moral decay attributable to what--permissiveness/same sex marriage/reefer madness?

When and where was this golden age?

Well done.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2nd Term Part VIII - The Thin Red Line

Last weekend, the Ohio Liberty Coalition hosted a “Reload 4 Liberty” event at which Janet Porter spoke about her never-ending push to get her anti-choice “Heartbeat Bill” legislation passed in Ohio. But apparently that is not all that Porter is up to these days, as she also revealed to the audience that she’ll soon be unveiling something called ReaganBook, which aims to become “the Facebook for patriots.”

Because Facebook is run by the sorts of people who march in gay pride parades and supposedly censors messages from anti-gay activists like Peter LaBarbera, Porter explained that she decided to launch ReaganBook as a conservative alternative.

Conservatives finally have their own Facebook.

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/were-tearing-down-walls-get-it

Former Republican vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin is launching a website dedicated to her own quirky form of conservative politics, the Sarah Palin Channel, as an alternative to the news media she famously dubbed the ‘lamestream media.’

“Are you tired of the media filters? Well, I am! I always have been. So we’re going to do something about it,” Palin said in the video introduction. “Together, we’ll go beyond the sound bites and cut through the media’s politically correct filter.”

They also have yet another media outlet. Good for them. The man's been keeping them down.

http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/sarah-palin-channel-website-alternative-mainstream-media

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: 2nd Term Part VIII - The Thin Red Line

Between reaganbook, conservapedia, and all the alternative reality media...pretty soon all those texans that wanted to secede will have done so.