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2024 Elections: One Last Chance for Democracy

Interesting... but it's not changing anything for me. The policies that are being presented are pretty clear in terms of who has ideas to help people and who has ideas to give money to people who don't need more.

Which makes me question anyone saying their abandoning the Democratic party. Is it that you are an active part and give a lot of money? And if you go someplace else, where? There's not a logical alternative, at this point.

If you don't want to give money- that makes 1000% sense. I've not donated a penny, ever, because they have never really been leaders as a whole. A few people have come along and led and inspired people, but from a real leadership perspective- nothing. So I can totally understand not giving money.

But when it comes to just voting- what reasonable alternative do you have? It's not as if the D policies as presented are bad- they do try to come up with ideas that actually help people. When compared to the r's, it's not even close- they have had no real policy other than the opposite of democrats and tax cuts for no real reason. We all know that "trickle down" economics is complete BS, and cutting off the border so harshly has really led to more expensive food because farmers can't get labor. Let alone, they just want to take away rights from people they don't like- voting, marriage, abortion, etc.

So for most people, this really, honestly, changes nothing.

It's stupid, and horrific timing. And for the young people who are angry that nobody is stepping up, step up. Pete has, but people seem to still have the willies over gay men. Kamila has- but for some reason, he voice bothers people??? Bernie is as old as Biden, so he can't step in. Maybe AOC will run for Senate soon.

Anyway, my one post to this thread. I'm bummed that it happened, I'm disappointed in the D party, but given the choices, this really changes nothing for me. I'm voting to protect the Republic as much as I'm voting to expand people's rights and lower the cost of food production via better immigration.
 
BassAle said:
I don’t think it’s clear. Some polls have had her outperforming Whitmer, Newsom, et al

https://www.forbes.com/sites/sarado...trump-as-biden-drops-out-and-endorses-harris/


“A Reuters/Ipsos poll released July 2 (margin of error 3.5) found Harris would lose to Trump by one point, Biden tied Trump, while four governors who have been floated as potential Biden replacements—Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer, California Gov. Gavin Newsom, Kentucky Gov. Andy Beshear and Illinois Gov. J.B. Pritzker—would all perform worse than both Biden and Harris against Trump.”

I think if she destroys Trump in a debate it will move the needle. Also, I think there would be some excitement that will boost her numbers.
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Trump already won any debate he needs, He will never debate again
 
psych said:
Look, I think one of your main arguments for someone other than Biden was they were less well-known, and therefore, had room to grow in the polls. Harris doesn’t have that luxury. Everyone knows her. Furthermore, her “destroying” Trump in a debate is far from a guarantee. If she stumbles at all, we know how the media will treat it. Trump will get the deference.
I guess I ultimately think of it is like this: who was (allegedly, in my opinion) running away from Biden after the debates? Democrats? Independents? I know y’all mock Drew or Hovey as much as I do, but they’re both very much the definition of a swing voter. They voted for Biden and regularly vote for Republicans. If that’s who Pelosi is afraid of losing, does Harris solve that problem for us as Democrats? Since Drew likely won’t give us a sincere answer, and Hovey has been notably silent in this thread lately, we may never know if Harris sways them to stay blue this election.
Now, if it’s Democrats like Handy, Kepler, Fade Pelosi is afraid of losing, does Harris fix that for us? Again, none of the Democrats I personally know are saying they wouldn’t vote for Biden anymore. I don’t think the base was sitting this election out. So, is it the rich? The Democratic donors? Would they have stayed home and/or voted Trump instead of Biden? Probably, due to their big fu-king egos.
Anyways, it comes down to the voters answering polls Democrats like Pelosi et al. viewed as permanently running away. I still dispute that, but that’s old news. Y’all caught the wheel. Now show us that wasn’t the only part of the plan.
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I am obviously only guessing but it is not so much who was running away, but who gives the best chance to improve. Bidens numbers have been mostly flat even after the debate. Trump's as well and he got shot and had a convention already! The truth is the bases were loyal but everyone else was in wait and see mode if polling is to be believed. Both were struggling to take a lead.

So the calculus is is, what are the arguments that hold people back from Biden? They aren't going to vote for Trump per se, but they are not all in on Biden. The #1 answer by far was age. Not his policies, not Gaza, not rhetoric his age and fitness. Polling shows people hate the Trump lies more...but it was still a problem. So how do you fix that?

Thing is you need someone who can run on his record without his faults. Not many can do that...and she is the big one. They already have been using her as the surrogate in the last few months especially with abortion.

The election as of now is tight. Polling is within the MOE. Down ballot is looking solid (I posted Senate Polling a week ago which was very pro Dem and outside the MOE) so the votes are there. Those voters though were not big on Biden. He was surviving but barely.

Now will Hovey vote for her...I don't know enough about him to know. Do I think more independents will vote for her than end then Biden...again maybe but i think so? Do i think more will vote for her than Trump...absolutely and that is important. This change makes the "double haters" think twice because she isn't the guy they hate. My SO thinks they are going to be too racist and sexist to vote for her...I think when Trump is the alternative (now known unlike in '16) they will do so wholeheartedly. Either way, if America is going to fail I would rather say we did so swinging...and if she wins think how awesome July 4th, 2026 is going to feel!
 
Now that we are past that fork in the road, we need to move forward with energy. The prize is still there for the taking. Let Joe be the inspiring hero. And if it's not usually reserved for up-and-comers, have BO give the nomination speech.
 
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Handyman said:
I am obviously only guessing but it is not so much who was running away, but who gives the best chance to improve. Bidens numbers have been mostly flat even after the debate. Trump's as well and he got shot and had a convention already! The truth is the bases were loyal but everyone else was in wait and see mode if polling is to be believed. Both were struggling to take a lead.

So the calculus is is, what are the arguments that hold people back from Biden? They aren't going to vote for Trump per se, but they are not all in on Biden. The #1 answer by far was age. Not his policies, not Gaza, not rhetoric his age and fitness. Polling shows people hate the Trump lies more...but it was still a problem. So how do you fix that?

Thing is you need someone who can run on his record without his faults. Not many can do that...and she is the big one. They already have been using her as the surrogate in the last few months especially with abortion.

The election as of now is tight. Polling is within the MOE. Down ballot is looking solid (I posted Senate Polling a week ago which was very pro Dem and outside the MOE) so the votes are there. Those voters though were not big on Biden. He was surviving but barely.

Now will Hovey vote for her...I don't know enough about him to know. Do I think more independents will vote for her than end then Biden...again maybe but i think so? Do i think more will vote for her than Trump...absolutely and that is important. This change makes the "double haters" think twice because she isn't the guy they hate. My SO thinks they are going to be too racist and sexist to vote for her...I think when Trump is the alternative (now known unlike in '16) they will do so wholeheartedly. Either way, if America is going to fail I would rather say we did so swinging...and if she wins think how awesome July 4th, 2026 is going to feel!
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I know why Democrats pushed Biden out. I also looked at the same polling. I was screaming for those stabbing Biden to show the polling where Casey wasn’t romping by 10% or more in his race or Baldwin ahead outside the margin of error in Wisconsin, when Pelosi and company were saying those races were threatened with Biden staying in.
Harris provides the least leeway for improvement. I love her, but again, I was voting for Biden in a coma before ever staying home. I’m not who they’re worried about. We’ve certainly crossed the Rubicon.
 
My only guess is college aged kids weren't going to vote for Biden. Are the college aged kids today any different than the ones 4 years prior? No idea, but I see a large amount of 'he's old whenever talking to kids that age. /blind guess
 
WeAreNDHockey said:
The media that no one thought was correct about Biden dropping out this weekend says he might make a statement this week. And that is why he needed to step down people. If he doesn't have the strength to go on TV and make a prepared speech but instead does this via a one-page statement, that is quite telling to me.

No one here knows anything, including me, but I believe when this all washes out we are going to see that over the last few months Biden declined precipitously. If we are still around a few years from now when the history of his presidency is being written I believe it will have two main stories. One, he accomplished more in office than anyone had a right to expect. It is nearly impossible for a president to have the kinds of positive effects his administration had. But the second story will come out that he suffered a rapid decline in his cognitive abilities, and illness maybe played a part in exacerbating that.
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The first announcement I read said Biden would be speaking to the nation later this week. I’m thinking maybe he is still potentially contagious and doesn’t want to risk infecting anyone plus he may still be feeling the effects.

As for a potential VP for Harris, I’m going against the grain here saying I don’t want Josh Shapiro. I know the guy that died at the Trump rally was a PA resident and it was tragic he died, but Shapiro in my opinion overdid it. Especially when he called the guy a “girl dad.” He was at a rally supporting a guy who is going to take every single right away from his daughter. He wasn’t a girl dad. Shapiro made him sound like this absolutely fabulous person. He may have been saying that to curry favor for PA residents but it rubbed me the wrong way.
 
mookie1995 said:
trump won’t (shouldn’t) debate her. nada
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If he wants to look afraid of a woman that is a brilliant strategy. Then again she would make him look silly so catch-22.

Scarlet,

Shapiro had to prop the dude up he was a constituent. He may beca despicable person but he is still some Shapiro represents. If he doesnt honor him the blowback would be fierce.
 
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