2024 Elections: One Last Chance for Democracy

[First Time Long Time]

Replacing Biden would show me Democrats are morons and don't care if they just hand a dictatorship to Trump

 

[First Time Long Time]

Again. Does. Not. Matter.

You keep coming up with excuses. That's all they are. Excuses.

If you can't win, you can't win. Period. Figure out a way to win. And putting up Harris instead of Biden is not the way to win. But like I originally said, the Democrats will find the stupid *ss solution and lose again. And people like you (and Kep) will keep coming up with "the voters are stupid" excuse. While the GOP laughs their way to the Oval Office.

The voters are stupid because no matter who the Republicans put up the Republicans vote for them. Democrats find reasons not to because of "reasons" Nothing has to make sense for them they just have to not like the person...Instead of realizing that a bigger issue is at stake. That's on voters not on the candidate.

 

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

The voters are stupid because no matter who the Republicans put up the Republicans vote for them. Democrats find reasons not to because of "reasons" Nothing has to make sense for them they just have to not like the person...Instead of realizing that a bigger issue is at stake. That's on voters not on the candidate.

The conservatives love an authoritarian daddy. Thats why they cream themselves for Putin and trump.

I think most sane people recognize they want a competent person, not a personality to dazzle.

 

[First Time Long Time]

The conservatives love an authoritarian daddy. Thats why they cream themselves for Putin and trump.

I think most sane people recognize they want a competent person, not a personality to dazzle.

And that's fine. My point is is when it comes down to Republican versus Democrat... Republicans unite Democrats hem and haw and come up with reasons to not vote for a candidate because they personally don't like them. As Handy said no candidate is ever going to be perfect...but when it's a Democrat versus a Republican if the Democrats don't unite behind their candidate we're going to lose this country...

 

[bronconick]

And yet she won the popular Presidential vote by over 3 million votes.

I must have missed it. How'd her Presidency turn out? She blew off the Rust Belt trying to "run up the score" in light red states she lost anyway.

 

[RaceBoarder]

People are realizing that our backs are against the wall here. It's just a question of whether there is enough mobilization in November.

 

[burd]

Perception is reality folks, whether you personally believe Biden is still every bit as much in command as he ever was.

I don't recall anyone around here saying Biden is still every bit as much in command as he ever was.

 

[rufus]

I must have missed it. How'd her Presidency turn out? She blew off the Rust Belt trying to "run up the score" in light red states she lost anyway.

You know exactly how it turned out. But to say she was a terrible, unappealing candidate isn't quite the truth.

 

[Handyman]

As is your right. And it is my right to say most of you are whistling past the graveyard.

And no matter what, Biden is toast. Even if he fends off calls to resign or at the very least drop out of the race (If he doesn't have the stamina to campaign he absolutely should not be president) he is going to expend all of his time and energy just staying in the race. American voters by and large are idiots. It's why Hillary lost. It's why Trump got 75 million votes in 2020 after clearly failing at every single aspect of being president and doing so in specatacular fashion.

As for your examples of your grandparents, those are anecdotal, and you are one of the main posters who point out how ridiculous it is when some media organization interviews some random idiot at a cafe in Ohio, because it is a mostly meaningless anecdote. I too have my anecdotes. My dad at 81 was light years AHEAD of where Biden is now. He could parry and thrust about most topics, politics included, with anyone. He could still drag his boat trailer around on his own to to hook up to his truck and generally looked like he could move better than me at the same time. In 2017 at 87 he was still spry, but by 2019 he wasn't. It goes quick.

I also know plenty of posters here are saying "he's slowed down some." I am saying he has slowed down too much, and the majority of Americans agree with that, and that will cost him the election. Look, I'm voting for whoever is at the top of the ticket, Biden or whoever. And I'm voting straight blue down the line. But we in this forum are so far removed from what the normal, average voter is it is like we're not the same species.

Biden and this country are fuc ked.

My problem isn't those anecdotes, my problem is those are tbe only people they talk to. Completely different issue.

I'm not saying my anecdotes prove anything...they don't. I'm saying nothing I have seen from Biden worries because I have seen people worse off be just fine. If i honestly didn't think he was up to the task I would say so. I have no undying loyalty to Joe Biden.

I think your pessimism is causing you to paint things darker than they are.

 

[Handyman]

The voters are stupid because no matter who the Republicans put up the Republicans vote for them. Democrats find reasons not to because of "reasons" Nothing has to make sense for them they just have to not like the person...Instead of realizing that a bigger issue is at stake. That's on voters not on the candidate.

Thank you you said it much better than me.

 

[Handyman]

People are realizing that our backs are against the wall here. It's just a question of whether there is enough mobilization in November.

Yes the problem is Dem Party is panicking in non-helpful ways. They are listening too much to the wrong people...people who profit from their being in chaos.

And look I get it...they believe this is democracy's last stamd and they worry whether we have the best candidate to save it. Totally fair question to ask. But alnost none of them has given a name as someone who is better. This isnt 1968 we cant start from scratch now and think you have a shot. It has to be someone everyone knows and trusts and who can stand up to Trump. That list is rather sparce for 5 months out...

But let's be honest...only Harris is going to be able to make it work and while I think this might be the one time it could work (because women are voting anyways amongst other reasons) it's still a HUGE risk. The good will the Chaos Agents in the media are giving her dies 5 minutes after she gets the nod. They will be viscious and amplify terrible things about her in the name fairness and chaos. It will get ugly...worse than anything Hillary or Obama saw. She is a Woman of Color with a Jewish Husband...while part of me would love to go down swinging that way i am not going to risk everything for it.

So it's Biden.

Edit: fwiw
https://www.threads.net/@johnfetter...QGz8qeZ-K54dBa6ortJnIuBRJVDcnU74dgnuAggRwPVcg

Morning Consult has Biden within 2 in the swing states. Post debate polling.

Democrats are like those football fans that want the qb benched at halftime because he threw an int on the final drive of the half even though the game is close and he otherwise is playing well and has a history of overperforming in close games.

 

[RaceBoarder]

I agree with ya about Harris being a non-starter as things stand.

As I've stated before, I'm willing to trust the math here. As long as people just get out and vote, there is a hell of a lot that Dumpy must overcome to reach 270.

People realize (even if they don't openly sat it) that Trump does no good for anyone other than a very small and narrow segment of the population. Even though they may not speak up through peer pressure, people know that Dump hurts them in some fashion, and will hopefully vote accordingly.

That harm is also driving people who have already been directly hurt out to the polls. We're likely to see a record number of women out in November to protect their right to healthcare. They know exactly what is at stake. Trust the math =)

 

[Handyman]

Btw...those of you that want a different candidate you realize the Dems have to give all the donations to him back right? It doesn't transfer to a new candidate. (I believe Harris can keep it if he steps aside)

So again there is no real choice here.

 

[Handyman]

I agree with ya about Harris being a non-starter as things stand.

As I've stated before, I'm willing to trust the math here. As long as people just get out and vote, there is a hell of a lot that Dumpy must overcome to reach 270.

People realize (even if they don't openly sat it) that Trump does no good for anyone other than a very small and narrow segment of the population. Even though they may not speak up through peer pressure, people know that Dump hurts them in some fashion, and will hopefully vote accordingly.

That harm is also driving people who have already been directly hurt out to the polls. We're likely to see a record number of women out in November to protect their right to healthcare. They know exactly what is at stake. Trust the math =)

Yes!

 

[busterman62]

Democrats are like those football fans that want the qb benched at halftime because he threw an int on the final drive of the half even though the game is close and he otherwise is playing well and has a history of overperforming in close games.

Since the sports analogies are flying around:

Why did they put this QB in the game at this time and ask him to throw a bomb? As Woody Hayes used to say:
""Only three things can happen when you pass and two of them are bad."

I've been unable to figure out why Biden and staff agreed to debate at this time. What was there to gain? Both party bases aren't likely to change their minds based on a debate. You aren't going to convince any substantial amounts of MAGA voters to change their minds. Attempting to shore up your own base this early in the race doesn't achieve that much either IMO. (The base is about turn out and should be addressed closer to the election [again IMO]. I suppose that you could argue that maybe they were attempting to sway the "Palestine Voters", etc. back into the fold but again, this too is probably better done closer to election date). One could argue that they were attempting to influence the independent vote. My thoughts are that the high information/high involvement independent has probably already decided that even though the choices are less than optimal, one of the choices is far and away superior to the other. This group will probably not change their minds either. That leaves you with trying to influence the voter that is too busy or too disinterested to pay attention unless something spectacular happens. They will make up their minds late or just choose not to play at all. Unfortunately, something spectacular happened (or at least is being reported as happening) and Biden took a nose dive. To me it appears that there was very little to gain by debating and a lot to potentially lose. Heads should roll on the campaign staff for putting him out there.

 

[Handyman]

It was to remind people how crazy Trump is...cause apparently people forgot. Biden performing badly offset that so it backfired.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

It's probably good they did the debate early. Since Biden underperformed, it gave away the whole MSM gameplan and gets the initial circus out of the way now. People are seeing it and realizing that much of the media is complicit, and they are tuning out.

 

[Slap Shot]

As if it was ever in doubt. https://www.threads.net/@briantylerc...3cbTvJlWp5d-pA

There you have it. While Trump claims that he has “no idea” who’s behind Project 2025, his own national press secretary, Karoline Leavitt, was outed as working for Project 2025.

The coordination doesn’t get clearer.

https://x.com/meiselasb/status/1809432471332876551

Donald Trump’s first campaign event of this cycle was at Waco, Texas on the 30th Anniversary of the Waco Siege. The opening speaker was Ted Nugent who called President Zelensky a “weirdo homosexual,” and then the “J6 Choir” played a new version of the National Anthem before Trump spoke about freeing the insurrectionists. The media was silent. From near verbatim quotes of Hitler, to praising fictional murderous cannibals, to making sex noises on stage, to leading curse chants in churches, to saying he will be dictator on day 1, as Trump spewed venom and incoherent stories of getting eaten by sharks, the media was silent.

 

[WeAreNDHockey]

If trump goes after the media during a second term and we see some of those people swinging in the breeze at least one good thing will have come from his presidency. Above just about anything else, the media has disappointed me the most. Maybe people were always as stupid as they are now, but 50 years ago the media reported -- eventually and mostly accurately -- about things like the failed war in Viet Nam and Nixon's crimes. And by and large most Americans came to believe the Viet Nam war was a horrible mistake and tragedy and Nixon truly was a criminal and his resignation was the least of what should have happened. I'd give my left nut for media like that in the 2020s.

 

[Kepler]

They aren't journalists, they are entertainers. Cronkite was the last TV newsman with a large audience. The only folks who do actual work now are on niche outlets.