What's new
By:
USCHO Fan Forum

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.

2024 Elections: One Last Chance for Democracy

I don't see a lot of people voting for Biden because of his charisma. And I do see a lot of people voting for Trump cause they're in total love with the guy. I hope what I saw on Debate night saves the country. And that was independent voters that are so repulsed by Trump they can't vote for him.

That's about the only thing that can save us now.
 
Kepler said:
Who said voters are stupid re: Hillary? She was a horrible candidate. Elections are a popularity contest and Hillary literally lost to The Convict who will go down in history as the worst American who ever lived.

The voters didn't kill Hillary. Her delusions in running in the first place did. She could have been the chief advisor to whoever beat The Convict. Like somebody said: she was right about everything. But she forgot the first rule of all democracies: you have to have appeal. She was actively repellent.
Click to expand...

I mean, there is decent to strong evidence that she would have hung on and won but for Comey ignoring all prior practice about impacting the election and releasing the fact of the FBI investigation into the emails right before the election. And let's not forget Russia's interference that paid off far better than Vlad ever could've hoped for.

She may have been an extremely unpopular candidate, but there were also external factors that played a substantial role in helping Trump fill his inside straight on the river.
 
I get a kick out of everyone reliving the 2016 election. It was a lifetime ago. In politics a year or two barely matter anymore. But the bigger problem is that in the life of an elderly man, a year or two can mean a whole hell of a lot. I honestly think people are fooling themselves if they think the guy I watched on TV last night (in an interview taped -- conveniently enough -- hours earlier) was truly and honestly fit enough to run for president. I know too I seem to still be very much the minority among Biden supporters such as those here.

He didn't even need to hit a home run last night. Maybe a double off the wall or even a solid single up the middle. While he might not have whiffed on three straight pitches, at best he grounded out to a middle infielder. I don't know the best path for the party to take, and I fear any path might going to lead to ruin anyway. But Biden running for president in 2024 is far from the best path.

Yes there is a media feeding frenzy and they don't need my help to play up this story, but there is also serious decline in this candidate. We already have one party behaving like a cult. I guess we will too.
 
I saw on Threads a few very left leaning liberals are downplaying Project2025 as still needing a lot of elements to implement and I'm just like "...can we please avoid the testing of waters phase and vote blue?
 
Russell Jaslow said:
Again. Does. Not. Matter.

You keep coming up with excuses. That's all they are. Excuses.

If you can't win, you can't win. Period. Figure out a way to win. And putting up Harris instead of Biden is not the way to win. But like I originally said, the Democrats will find the stupid *ss solution and lose again. And people like you (and Kep) will keep coming up with "the voters are stupid" excuse. While the GOP laughs their way to the Oval Office.
Click to expand...

Voters are stupid...that has never not been the case.

You understand that Hillary won the primaries right? It wasn't like some small group of people made the decision on behalf of the entire Dem voter group...we held primaries and caucuses and Bernie (who I voted for in the Minnesota Caucus) lost. That is all that matters.

You wanna know why the average voter is stupid, and why I think that opinion is pretty trash (I mean no offense to you personally I mean more that no one seems to see it in general) because this is a zero phucking sum game ok. No candidate is ever going to be anywhere close to what the ideal would be...because those people don't run for office usually. Would it be nice if they did...sure. But truth is the most qualified people to run the country are probably some of the biggest pr!cks out there. Kind of have to be...so there is only two ways to go. One side gets that (mainly cause they don't think) and the other side doesnt and screws it up. (mainly cause they overthink)

But you see voters that think (i.e. anyone Left of Center) have an issue with that. Its never about just all of the positives but the negatives as well. Fine, that is important stuff to know. But there are more important factors than that...and Dems are way to easy to talk out of making the right decision.

Once the Primaries are over there are only 2 legit choices to run the country. (we are leaving abstaining out of this argument) You don't have to like Hillary to know she would be a better President than Trump. I never supported her as a candidate until I had to, but the second she won the nom there was no going back. You can argue until the end of the world that it sucks those were our choices (and boy did it) but the choice still needed to be made. Even if you didn't believe the hyperbole on Trump, the fact of the matter is we all knew a guy who could not even run a casino right had zero chance of running the government correctly. Hillary may be a Wall Street loving Centrist with the warmth of an icicle but her government would have functioned. When COVID hit, we would have had actual doctors making the policy without her interfering and turning half the country against science. We wouldn't have had militias and neo-nazi groups running around hurting people with impunity because they know they have the support of those in power. We would be in a much better position now then we are...and we all know it. And hey, for you people who think Biden is too old or feeble or likes Israel too much or is not liberal enough...if Hillary wins in 2016 it is almost a guarantee Biden never runs again.

Look one thing I love about Democrats is that despite it all they aren't going to be a cult. I have zero issue with everyone in the party calling Biden to check in and asking the tough questions. (I have an issue with them doing it in the media but that is a different argument) But as long as he is the candidate he has to be the vote...because otherwise you are risking it all. This is not a slippery slope anymore, this is not hypothetical. The Supreme Court has basically said anything the President does in the name of his Presidency is legal. Project 2025 is real. You have one side openly talking about wanting an end to Democracy and the other, a side that has done 3.5 years of good, that just wants the country to survive and keep moving forward. There is nothing else that matters. And yeah, voters who don't see that are idiots and I will tell them that until they realize it just like I had to when I was an idiot spouting the same nonsense.

Its not an excuse its a factor. Everything plays in. But the voters voted for Hillary to be the nominee, the voters voted for Biden to be the nominee TWICE. So how is it the Dems fault that their voters made the choice that apparently was the unpopular one? (unpopular in the sense that she lost in the Electoral College but won the popular vote) In your worldview are the voters never responsible for the decisions that they make? Because that is just downright ridiculous. Who were the better choices and why didn't they choose to run?

And anyways I don't want Biden out of the race or replaced by Harris. (ironically I supported Harris or Warren in 2020) I don't think that is the smart move and doing it would 100% be their mistake. I would still chastise voters for not making a rather easy decision (she checks most of the boxes that seem to be the reasoning) but the move itself at this time is an obvious recipe for disaster. The only ones who seem to think it makes sense are the pundits/polls and a few reps no one has ever heard of. Now is not the time to panic.
 
Last edited:
Kepler said:
Who said voters are stupid re: Hillary? She was a horrible candidate. Elections are a popularity contest and Hillary literally lost to The Convict who will go down in history as the worst American who ever lived.

The voters didn't kill Hillary. Her delusions in running in the first place did. She could have been the chief advisor to whoever beat The Convict. Like somebody said: she was right about everything. But she forgot the first rule of all democracies: you have to have appeal. She was actively repellent.
Click to expand...

If she was so bad, why didn't someone beat her? My candidate (and I would guess yours) couldn't beat her in a primary to save his life. If she was so bad why didn't anyone with a real chance challenge her?

(the answer is there was no one...we just dont like the answer)
 
burd said:
Does it matter how you define "can't?" She lost by a whisker and won the popular vote. She had some serious flaws, but it seems she could have won and was expected to, right up to election night. That doesn't change the fact that she lost, and it's not an excuse. But the label you place on her as one who can't win does not seem to fit. I didn't like her, btw, and still don't, but she was a legit candidate.

And before you come back at me with something smart, know that only stupid people ever think I'm wrong.
Click to expand...

tumblr_m43fmnEFfl1rqfhi2o1_400.gif
 
Handyman said:
If she was so bad, why didn't someone beat her? My candidate (and I would guess yours) couldn't beat her in a primary to save his life. If she was so bad why didn't anyone with a real chance challenge her?

(the answer is there was no one...we just dont like the answer)
Click to expand...

Because political parties don't pick a candidate that can necessarily win a general election. They tend to pick a candidate that appeals to their specific voters. And you are certainly smart enough to know that.

That is why you end up with candidates like Dukakis or Hillary (of McGovern for that matter). It had nothing to do with whether they are capable of winning a general election.

Ergo my original comment -- the Democrats have a tendency to pick terrible candidates.
 
Nate Silver is a bit of a polarizing figure around these parts. I'm sure this will do nothing to quell that.

Nate Silver said:
I wimped out in today's column and deleted a line saying he should formulate a plan to transition the presidency to Harris within 30-60 days, but I'm there now. Something is clearly wrong here. The most generous way to put it is that he doesn't seem in command, and that's an extremely hard sell when you're Commander in Chief.
Click to expand...

Perception is reality folks, whether you personally believe Biden is still every bit as much in command as he ever was.
 
WeAreNDHockey said:
I get a kick out of everyone reliving the 2016 election. It was a lifetime ago. In politics a year or two barely matter anymore. But the bigger problem is that in the life of an elderly man, a year or two can mean a whole hell of a lot. I honestly think people are fooling themselves if they think the guy I watched on TV last night (in an interview taped -- conveniently enough -- hours earlier) was truly and honestly fit enough to run for president. I know too I seem to still be very much the minority among Biden supporters such as those here.

He didn't even need to hit a home run last night. Maybe a double off the wall or even a solid single up the middle. While he might not have whiffed on three straight pitches, at best he grounded out to a middle infielder. I don't know the best path for the party to take, and I fear any path might going to lead to ruin anyway. But Biden running for president in 2024 is far from the best path.

Yes there is a media feeding frenzy and they don't need my help to play up this story, but there is also serious decline in this candidate. We already have one party behaving like a cult. I guess we will too.
Click to expand...

I disagree with literally all of this. We aren't behaving like a cult because we (and the party in general) are discussing it. If we were behaving like a cult we would say "The President is fine, the debate was fine, all is well". You know, like the GOP is. Last I checked none of that is happening. Christ even HE is saying he had a bad night and doesn't talk as well as he used to...some cult leader :rolleyes:

If we want to use baseball analogies...last night he got a single. Nothing great, but he did his job in the interview. His speeches have been way better than that...and no I dont friggin care that he uses a prompter for those. So does Trump and he still goes off on tangents.

Then again I remember my grandpas (3 of them!) in their 80s and he is lightyears better than them! And only 1 had really any health issues. Most could not walk great distances or up and down stairs and none of them ever flew anywhere and a friggin cold meant a week of them being sequestered...but none of them had dementia or anything and he is still better at speaking than they were for the most part. (they never spoke in public so its not apples to apples anyways)

The question isn't whether he slowed down...I am pretty sure none of us are saying he hasn't. The question is whether he has slowed down to a point that he can't do the job. I don't think he has personally but I also am not in a position to know. If you think he has then he needs to be replaced...but make no mistake that is the riskier proposition and the only reason the media is pushing for it is because it will definitely help their bottom line.
 
aparch said:
I saw on Threads a few very left leaning liberals are downplaying Project2025 as still needing a lot of elements to implement and I'm just like "...can we please avoid the testing of waters phase and vote blue?
Click to expand...

So that is the 2024 version of "The Institutions Will Save Us"?
 
Handyman said:
I disagree with literally all of this.
Click to expand...

As is your right. And it is my right to say most of you are whistling past the graveyard.

And no matter what, Biden is toast. Even if he fends off calls to resign or at the very least drop out of the race (If he doesn't have the stamina to campaign he absolutely should not be president) he is going to expend all of his time and energy just staying in the race. American voters by and large are idiots. It's why Hillary lost. It's why Trump got 75 million votes in 2020 after clearly failing at every single aspect of being president and doing so in specatacular fashion.

As for your examples of your grandparents, those are anecdotal, and you are one of the main posters who point out how ridiculous it is when some media organization interviews some random idiot at a cafe in Ohio, because it is a mostly meaningless anecdote. I too have my anecdotes. My dad at 81 was light years AHEAD of where Biden is now. He could parry and thrust about most topics, politics included, with anyone. He could still drag his boat trailer around on his own to to hook up to his truck and generally looked like he could move better than me at the same time. In 2017 at 87 he was still spry, but by 2019 he wasn't. It goes quick.

I also know plenty of posters here are saying "he's slowed down some." I am saying he has slowed down too much, and the majority of Americans agree with that, and that will cost him the election. Look, I'm voting for whoever is at the top of the ticket, Biden or whoever. And I'm voting straight blue down the line. But we in this forum are so far removed from what the normal, average voter is it is like we're not the same species.

Biden and this country are fuc ked.
 
And the average voter hasn't tuned in yet. They'll tune in sometime around Labor Day - two months removed from this nonsense.

and 90% of them have made up their mind already.
 
Russell Jaslow said:
Because political parties don't pick a candidate that can necessarily win a general election. They tend to pick a candidate that appeals to their specific voters. And you are certainly smart enough to know that.

That is why you end up with candidates like Dukakis or Hillary (of McGovern for that matter). It had nothing to do with whether they are capable of winning a general election.

Ergo my original comment -- the Democrats have a tendency to pick terrible candidates.
Click to expand...

And yet she won the popular Presidential vote by over 3 million votes.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top