2019-20 pwr

[altazo]

Not to sound like a jerk, then why bring it up?

It's PWR, PWR, PWR, PWR and absolutely nothing else. No eye test. No defending champions criteria. PWR, PWR, PWR, and absolutely nothing else.

Just because I’m bringing up the idea that I still kinda miss that “eye test” the ‘ol smoke filled room used to bring. Not saying that’s right or wrong, just a thought.

I think it is insane Norwich hasn’t given up a goal in 8 games.

I think it is insane Point hasn’t lost a game in 3 months.

I ain’t mad about it. You sound kinda mad...

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Re: 2019-20 pwr

Just because I’m bringing up the idea that I still kinda miss that “eye test” the ‘ol smoke filled room used to bring. Not saying that’s right or wrong, just a thought.

I think it is insane Norwich hasn’t given up a goal in 8 games.

I know.

I think it is insane Point hasn’t lost a game in 3 months.

I know.

I ain’t mad about it. You sound kinda mad...

I know. And I'm not.

 

[NUProf]

Re: 2019-20 pwr

Yep. And it's happened before and everyone went apesh*t.

Fish talks about throwing a few extra bucks to make hockey proper, but that's a narrow view of it. All D3 sports need a few extra bucks thrown their way to make their tournaments equitable. It adds up. And in the NCAA eyes, it adds up to too much, even though it's still a pittance in the grand budget.

It's not just hockey for sure but because (I think) we follow it more closely than other people follow other D3 sports, the impact is clearer to us.

It just amazes me that the NCAA can talk all piously about "student-athletes" (A concept I really believe in, by the way), and not give adequate support to the division that houses the greatest number of true student-athletes. This is the height of hypocrisy, but not the only hypocrisy exhibited by that organization.

Meanwhile, the facts are that if the field for the NCAA turns out like this:

CCC -Endicott (7)
MASCAC -Plymouth (47)
MIAC - Concordia (MN) (37)
NCHA - Adrian (5)
NEHC - Norwich (2)
NESCAC - Williams (11)
SUNYAC - Geneseo (4)
UCHC - Utica (1)

Pool C
Hobart (3)
UWEC (6)
Lake Forest (8)
Babson (9)

Three facts will drive the bracket

1. The only qualifier within 500 miles of Concordia is UWEC at 327 miles
2. The only qualifier within 500 miles of Lake Forest is Adrian at 263 miles
3. The rules require flights if a trip is more than 500 miles and flights are to be avoided in the first two rounds.

This means we get two regionals - a 4 team West regional and an 8 team East regional. It is what it is.

West - Quarter finals

Concordia (37) at UWEC (6)
Lake Forest (8) Adrian (5)

East

First Round

Plymouth (47) at Utica (1)
Williams (11) at Norwich (2)
Babson (6) at Hobart (3)
Edicott (7) at Geneseo (4)

Quarter Finals

Endicott/Geneseo vs Plymouth/Utica
Babson/Hobart vs. Williams/Norwich

Yes, in a 12 team tournament this gives the four first round byes to the teams that would be seeded 5,6,8 and 11, but what the heck, at least the top 6 teams all get a home game

 

[Tom Coughlin]

Re: 2019-20 pwr

Gotcha, it must have been 2012. It’s really hard to keep all these National championship seasons straight. It’s the cross we bear as fans of SNC.

Maybe it was 08, or 11? Or maybe 18?

 

[pete99race]

Re: 2019-20 pwr

Keep an eye on Point....they have gained five positions in the PWR in the last two weeks.
If they beat Eau Claire on Saturday at home....better than 50/50 odds they do...can they jump over Babson or LFC to gain a Pool C bid?
Assumes all conference leaders, in front of them in the PWR, win.
But, if SNC beats Adrian on Saturday to get the NCHA auto bid, and Adrian gets a Pool C....and Point may be the first team outside looking in.
So many different outcomes still possible, but it is fun to speculate....

 

[UCBadger]

Re: 2019-20 pwr

.......
So many different outcomes still possible, but it is fun to speculate....

And we have a whole week to do it!

 

[IceKnights20]

Re: 2019-20 pwr

It's not just hockey for sure but because (I think) we follow it more closely than other people follow other D3 sports, the impact is clearer to us.

It just amazes me that the NCAA can talk all piously about "student-athletes" (A concept I really believe in, by the way), and not give adequate support to the division that houses the greatest number of true student-athletes. This is the height of hypocrisy, but not the only hypocrisy exhibited by that organization.

Meanwhile, the facts are that if the field for the NCAA turns out like this:

CCC -Endicott (7)
MASCAC -Plymouth (47)
MIAC - Concordia (MN) (37)
NCHA - Adrian (5)
NEHC - Norwich (2)
NESCAC - Williams (11)
SUNYAC - Geneseo (4)
UCHC - Utica (1)

Pool C
Hobart (3)
UWEC (6)
Lake Forest (8)
Babson (9)

Three facts will drive the bracket

1. The only qualifier within 500 miles of Concordia is UWEC at 327 miles
2. The only qualifier within 500 miles of Lake Forest is Adrian at 263 miles
3. The rules require flights if a trip is more than 500 miles and flights are to be avoided in the first two rounds.

This means we get two regionals - a 4 team West regional and an 8 team East regional. It is what it is.

West - Quarter finals

Concordia (37) at UWEC (6)
Lake Forest (8) Adrian (5)

East

First Round

Plymouth (47) at Utica (1)
Williams (11) at Norwich (2)
Babson (6) at Hobart (3)
Edicott (7) at Geneseo (4)

Quarter Finals

Endicott/Geneseo vs Plymouth/Utica
Babson/Hobart vs. Williams/Norwich

Yes, in a 12 team tournament this gives the four first round byes to the teams that would be seeded 5,6,8 and 11, but what the heck, at least the top 6 teams all get a home game

If the top 4 teams in the country are in the east why would we assume that the byes would go west? Why not make the west teams play down to 1 semifinalist? That would give you the possibility of 3 of the top 4 teams in the semifinals instead of 2 of 4 with the byes in the west.

 

[NUProf]

Re: 2019-20 pwr

If the top 4 teams in the country are in the east why would we assume that the byes would go west? Why not make the west teams play down to 1 semifinalist? That would give you the possibility of 3 of the top 4 teams in the semifinals instead of 2 of 4 with the byes in the west.

The proximity rule. If possible (and the example I gave shows it is possible), teams will not travel more than 500 miles for a first or second round game due to NCAA stipulations. The NCAA has done this before, and will do it again. There are a couple of outcomes that could avoid this, the biggest chance being that UST beats Concordia. The location of UST in the Twin Cities puts a UST/Lake Forest/UWEC triple in play. It still would put Geneseo in a first round game, but the byes would go 1,2,3,6 in that scenario.

 

[SomeRandomGuy]

Re: 2019-20 pwr

If the top 4 teams in the country are in the east why would we assume that the byes would go west? Why not make the west teams play down to 1 semifinalist? That would give you the possibility of 3 of the top 4 teams in the semifinals instead of 2 of 4 with the byes in the west.

NCAA rules say a team that is more than 500 miles away from an NCAA tournament opponent must be flown, at NCAA expense, for the game. And in D3 (in all sports) there is a mandate to minimize costs by minimizing flights.

You could do a first round of Concordia at Eau Claire and Lake Forest at Adrian without a flight for either game. But when you get to the quarters it would be more than 500 miles from Concordia and from Adrian to either of their possible opponents. So the only way you get through that bracket without at least one flight is if Lake Forest and Eau Claire win. And the NCAA probably won't take that chance.

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Re: 2019-20 pwr

Just to make Fish's head explode:

In the D3 NCAA basketball tournament, Brooklyn College got the AQ for winning the CUNYAC. It was a huge upset. Their overall record is 13-15.

{Taking a step back...}

 

[SomeRandomGuy]

Re: 2019-20 pwr

There are a couple of outcomes that could avoid this, the biggest chance being that UST beats Concordia. The location of UST in the Twin Cities puts a UST/Lake Forest/UWEC triple in play. It still would put Geneseo in a first round game, but the byes would go 1,2,3,6 in that scenario.

If Stevens Point gets in (and they have a very good chance to with a win), a trio of Concordia/Eau Claire/Stevens Point works too.

St. Norbert is 515 miles from Concordia so if SNC wins the NCHA that does not help as things stand.

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Re: 2019-20 pwr

NCAA rules say a team that is more than 500 miles away from an NCAA tournament opponent must be flown, at NCAA expense, for the game. And in D3 (in all sports) there is a mandate to minimize costs by minimizing flights.

You could do a first round of Concordia at Eau Claire and Lake Forest at Adrian without a flight for either game. But when you get to the quarters it would be more than 500 miles from Concordia and from Adrian to either of their possible opponents. So the only way you get through that bracket without at least one flight is if Lake Forest and Eau Claire win. And the NCAA probably won't take that chance.

It's a mandate to MINIMIZE costs, but not necessarily how, even though the suggestion is no flights the first two rounds.

But take a look at the overall fights for the entire tournament -- (two western teams fly to Buffalo) or (one western team flies to Buffalo plus one team flies in the quarters). Overall, that's still two flights for the entire tournament.

 

[NUProf]

Re: 2019-20 pwr

NCAA rules say a team that is more than 500 miles away from an NCAA tournament opponent must be flown, at NCAA expense, for the game. And in D3 (in all sports) there is a mandate to minimize costs by minimizing flights.

You could do a first round of Concordia at Eau Claire and Lake Forest at Adrian without a flight for either game. But when you get to the quarters it would be more than 500 miles from Concordia and from Adrian to either of their possible opponents. So the only way you get through that bracket without at least one flight is if Lake Forest and Eau Claire win. And the NCAA probably won't take that chance.

Adrian could go to Geneseo or Hobart for a quarterfinal, but Concordia and Lake Forest would have to fly if they were to win first round games. The NCAA will arrange it so that no flights are necessary, even if it makes no bracket sense.

 

[SomeRandomGuy]

Re: 2019-20 pwr

It's a mandate to MINIMIZE costs, but not necessarily how, even though the suggestion is no flights the first two rounds.

But take a look at the overall fights for the entire tournament -- (two western teams fly to Buffalo) or (one western team flies to Buffalo plus one team flies in the quarters). Overall, that's still two flights for the entire tournament.

It's only 350 or so miles from Adrian to Buffalo. So (with this field) all four byes in the west give you at least a 50/50 shot of only one total flight.

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Re: 2019-20 pwr

It's only 350 or so miles from Adrian to Buffalo. So (with this field) all four byes in the west give you at least a 50/50 shot of only one total flight.

Good point.

 

[Quasi Hatrack]

Re: 2019-20 pwr

Keep an eye on Point....they have gained five positions in the PWR in the last two weeks.
If they beat Eau Claire on Saturday at home....better than 50/50 odds they do...can they jump over Babson or LFC to gain a Pool C bid?
Assumes all conference leaders, in front of them in the PWR, win.
But, if SNC beats Adrian on Saturday to get the NCHA auto bid, and Adrian gets a Pool C....and Point may be the first team outside looking in.
So many different outcomes still possible, but it is fun to speculate....

This is why I wish someone had a PWR calculator for D3. SNC beating Adrian would help Point's ranking since they have a win over SNC and that would trickle down through opponents of opponents. But would it help enough to make up for another AQ from outside the top 12?

If it helps enough and doesn't knock out Lake Forest, you're looking at possibly six teams from the west.

 

[Tom Coughlin]

Re: 2019-20 pwr

Just to illustrate the arbitrary nature of the 500 mile rule...the NCAA would have no problem with UWSP traveling by bus to Adrian (492 miles), but wouldn't consider making UWEC make essentially the same trip (548 miles).

 

[Tom Coughlin]

Re: 2019-20 pwr

This is why I wish someone had a PWR calculator for D3. SNC beating Adrian would help Point's ranking since they have a win over SNC and that would trickle down through opponents of opponents. But would it help enough to make up for another AQ from outside the top 12?

If it helps enough and doesn't knock out Lake Forest, you're looking at possibly six teams from the west.

An SNC win should benefit Lake Forest as well, as Lake Forest has two road wins over SNC.

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Re: 2019-20 pwr

Just to illustrate the arbitrary nature of the 500 mile rule...the NCAA would have no problem with UWSP traveling by bus to Adrian (492 miles), but wouldn't consider making UWEC make essentially the same trip (548 miles).

That doesn't bother me. You have to draw a line somewhere. Otherwise you end up justifying busing teams 900 miles. Or more.

 

[Fishman'81]

Re: 2019-20 pwr

It's not just hockey for sure but because (I think) we follow it more closely than other people follow other D3 sports, the impact is clearer to us.

It just amazes me that the NCAA can talk all piously about "student-athletes" (A concept I really believe in, by the way), and not give adequate support to the division that houses the greatest number of true student-athletes. This is the height of hypocrisy, but not the only hypocrisy exhibited by that organization.

Could not agree more.

The tournament teams should be seeded, sited and -most significantly- selected purely on the basis of merit.