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2015 Pairwise Discussion & Predictions

Re: 2015 Pairwise Discussion & Predictions

Skate79 said:
That would mean, under your scenario, they would travel back to Cambridge the following Saturday to face the Crimson. Why would the NCAA want a repeat of a title game played the week before?
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If there's one positive thing that can be said about the tournament selection criteria it's that it is very, very, very clear and open about how the tournament will be set up. The criteria sucks, but there's almost no ambiguity involved.

For any given 8 team field you can tell with probably 100% accuracy what the committee would be forced by rule to assign as the bracket. It has nothing to do with what anyone (NCAA, coaches, fans, anyone at all) WANTS to see and everything to do with what, by rule, the committee is required to assign.
 
Re: 2015 Pairwise Discussion & Predictions

Skate79 said:
The way the ECAC is shaping up down the stretch, Quinnipiac could face Harvard in the tournament title game. That would mean, under your scenario, they would travel back to Cambridge the following Saturday to face the Crimson. Why would the NCAA want a repeat of a title game played the week before? Again, this is projecting quite a bit into the future and we've got a number of games to play before that scenario could take place but I'm puzzled by how this keeps bracket integrity. The same could also be said for BC/BU if those teams face each other in the WHEA tournament.

Last year Harvard traveled to Wisconsin to play the Badgers in the NCAA quarters. Why couldn't Quinnipiac make the same trip this year?
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Recent years it seems like MN has to beat UND repeatedly, though not always for the NCAA. A couple years back I think they ended the season (or close to last weekend) then the WCHA playoffs then the NCAA opening weekend. It sucks for MN because of the dirty play of UND and it sucks for UND because they are probably better than a couple other teams in the opening weekend & should have the chance to prove it.
 
Re: 2015 Pairwise Discussion & Predictions

ne7minder said:
Recent years it seems like MN has to beat UND repeatedly, though not always for the NCAA. A couple years back I think they ended the season (or close to last weekend) then the WCHA playoffs then the NCAA opening weekend. It sucks for MN because of the dirty play of UND and it sucks for UND because they are probably better than a couple other teams in the opening weekend & should have the chance to prove it.
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Wasn't that the year that the NCAA quarterfinal game between those teams when to three OTs? Or something close? I just remember that one of those games being an extraordinary battle.
 
Re: 2015 Pairwise Discussion & Predictions

While it's nice (from my point of view) for Harvard to crack the top 3 in Pairwise for the first time this season, that may be partly because it has finished all the easier parts of its schedule: it still has two tough games this upcoming weekend. BC, BU, Clarkson and StL likewise have tough opposition still to come whereas the other Top 10 teams have less of a chance for a stumble. Indeed, unless some games end in ties, there will inevitably be at least two stumbles to apportion out among Harvard/Clarkson/StL and two between BC and BU. So hold onto your hats!
 
Re: 2015 Pairwise Discussion & Predictions

Skate79 said:
Wasn't that the year that the NCAA quarterfinal game between those teams when to three OTs? Or something close? I just remember that one of those games being an extraordinary battle.
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The 3 OT game was the next year and those were epic battles. The only negative was at the end of that 3OT game. Kelly Terry had just score the winning goal & raised her arms when #4 LaShomb gave her a vicious cross check in the back. SHe laid on the ice for quiet some time be ore being helped up by Davis. You can youtube the play. How that did not draw any sanctions is beyond me.
 
Re: 2015 Pairwise Discussion & Predictions

ne7minder said:
The 3 OT game was the next year and those were epic battles. The only negative was at the end of that 3OT game. Kelly Terry had just score the winning goal & raised her arms when #4 LaShomb gave her a vicious cross check in the back. SHe laid on the ice for quiet some time be ore being helped up by Davis. You can youtube the play. How that did not draw any sanctions is beyond me.
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Fair question. It is good enough for me that the turncoats were denied yet again. :cool:
 
Re: 2015 Pairwise Discussion & Predictions

Watson Rink said:
While it's nice (from my point of view) for Harvard to crack the top 3 in Pairwise for the first time this season, that may be partly because it has finished all the easier parts of its schedule: it still has two tough games this upcoming weekend. BC, BU, Clarkson and StL likewise have tough opposition still to come whereas the other Top 10 teams have less of a chance for a stumble. Indeed, unless some games end in ties, there will inevitably be at least two stumbles to apportion out among Harvard/Clarkson/StL and two between BC and BU. So hold onto your hats!
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Turning my eyes westward, is it correct to think that the final week of WCHA play and the ensuing playoffs are less likely to help sort out the logjam for the ultimate #6/#7 Pairwise spots than the corresponding games in the East? That is, absent an upset, aren't UMD and ND unlikely to confront one another (which would open some space between them if they did) and are therefore likely to just keep rolling along pretty much where they now are Pairwise, winning their initial matches and then losing to Minny and Wisco?

Of course, even in the East we may not see space opening up to clearly differentiate the teams that are clustered below Pairwise #5 because instead of single confrontations between each pair of rivals (as in the final week of the regular season) the HE and ECAC tournaments will provide additional games among some pairs of teams and therefore a chance of a muddy middle Pairwise result (for example, counting the playoffs, there will probably be 3 more BC/BU matches, and one of the ECAC #4 and #5 seeded teams might play 3 of the other #1 through #5 ECAC seeded teams if it survives to the tourney finals). So the plethora of upcoming regular season and tourney games may sharply differentiate the top Eastern teams, but then again it may not. But there sure will be a lot of excitement.
 
Re: 2015 Pairwise Discussion & Predictions

Watson Rink said:
Turning my eyes westward, is it correct to think that the final week of WCHA play and the ensuing playoffs are less likely to help sort out the logjam for the ultimate #6/#7 Pairwise spots than the corresponding games in the East? That is, absent an upset, aren't UMD and ND unlikely to confront one another (which would open some space between them if they did) and are therefore likely to just keep rolling along pretty much where they now are Pairwise, winning their initial matches and then losing to Minny and Wisco?
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There are three ways that UND and UMD could play again. If UMD drops at least 5 points to Ohio State and Bemidji State takes enough from Minnesota, then UMD could go to Grand Forks for the first round of the WCHA playoffs. The second is that if either Minnesota or Wisconsin (but not both) loses their first round series, UND and UND would meet in the semis, assuming they both make it. The third is that if all of the higher seeds win in the first roud and UMD and UND win the semis, they'd meet in the final.

You'll have to decide for yourself how likely those scenarios are.
 
Re: 2015 Pairwise Discussion & Predictions

TonyTheTiger20 said:
If there's one positive thing that can be said about the tournament selection criteria it's that it is very, very, very clear and open about how the tournament will be set up. The criteria sucks, but there's almost no ambiguity involved.

For any given 8 team field you can tell with probably 100% accuracy what the committee would be forced by rule to assign as the bracket. It has nothing to do with what anyone (NCAA, coaches, fans, anyone at all) WANTS to see and everything to do with what, by rule, the committee is required to assign.
Click to expand...

I'll admit it, I'm seeing this only through a fan's eyes and not really taking into account any systemic approach to evaluating the top eight teams. And I get that teams 5 - 8 are not really seeded. They are put into the bracket that makes the most sense given regular season and post season tournament results and minimizes travel. With the CHA autobid, it seems like three teams (Clarkson, UMD and UND) will be fighting to get in. Does that seem right? Will those teams be judged on final weekend and tournament results? I'm thinking that Clarkson helps themselves if they beat Quinnipiac and Harvard in the ECAC tournament should they face those teams. But how much more does it help them over UND and UMD? This could drive someone to drink heavily in the next week or so!
 
Re: 2015 Pairwise Discussion & Predictions

ne7minder said:
The 3 OT game was the next year and those were epic battles. The only negative was at the end of that 3OT game. Kelly Terry had just score the winning goal & raised her arms when #4 LaShomb gave her a vicious cross check in the back. SHe laid on the ice for quiet some time be ore being helped up by Davis. You can youtube the play. How that did not draw any sanctions is beyond me.
Click to expand...

I just saw it on YouTube. It definitely was a vicious hit but what struck me was all the Minnesota players jumping on each other ignoring their fallen teammate. She wasn't on the ice for very long but when she got up, you could tell she was hurting. She was bent over several times trying to join in the celebration. As for the sanctions, the game had ended and I think the refs turned a blind eye towards any penalties. But the league should have looked into it and brought some kind of suspension assuming that LaShomb had eligibility left over.
 
Re: 2015 Pairwise Discussion & Predictions

Skate79 said:
I just saw it on YouTube. It definitely was a vicious hit but what struck me was all the Minnesota players jumping on each other ignoring their fallen teammate. She wasn't on the ice for very long but when she got up, you could tell she was hurting. She was bent over several times trying to join in the celebration. As for the sanctions, the game had ended and I think the refs turned a blind eye towards any penalties. But the league should have looked into it and brought some kind of suspension assuming that LaShomb had eligibility left over.
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In my memory, I thought there was one Gopher player that helped her up off the ice! Yes, Ms LaShomb is still playing for UND this year.
 
Re: 2015 Pairwise Discussion & Predictions

Skate79 said:
With the CHA autobid, it seems like three teams (Clarkson, UMD and UND) will be fighting to get in. Does that seem right?
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Yep, that's pretty much the gist of it.
Will those teams be judged on final weekend and tournament results? I'm thinking that Clarkson helps themselves if they beat Quinnipiac and Harvard in the ECAC tournament should they face those teams. But how much more does it help them over UND and UMD? This could drive someone to drink heavily in the next week or so!
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Ha, well it's a lot more simple than you think. The tournament is entirely selected by the Pairwise Rankings. All games are weighted the same, from game 1 to the conference semifinal. If you win the conference championship you're in automatically.
 
Re: 2015 Pairwise Discussion & Predictions

KTDC said:
In my memory, I thought there was one Gopher player that helped her up off the ice! Yes, Ms LaShomb is still playing for UND this year.
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Yes there was one player who went over to her to help her up. You have a good memory. I just found it puzzling that her teammates would be jumping around hugging each other while she is laying on the ice. It was a strange scene.
 
Re: 2015 Pairwise Discussion & Predictions

Skate79 said:
Yes there was one player who went over to her to help her up. You have a good memory. I just found it puzzling that her teammates would be jumping around hugging each other while she is laying on the ice. It was a strange scene.
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The hit was long enough after the goal that the celebration had already started, I don't think the players in front noticed. I believe it was Sarah Davis who was behind the net at the time & saw what happened that helped her up

KTDC said:
In my memory, I thought there was one Gopher player that helped her up off the ice! Yes, Ms LaShomb is still playing for UND this year.
Click to expand...

Yeah, she had one shift on Saturday against MN & drew a checking from behind penalty. She is also the one that intentionally tripped a referee while leaving the box after yet another penalty earlier this year. The WCHA has to be aware of all this yet they do nothing. They better hope there is never a CTE lawsuit from former player because the evidence of negligence is there.
 
Re: 2015 Pairwise Discussion & Predictions

ne7minder said:
The hit was long enough after the goal that the celebration had already started, I don't think the players in front noticed. I believe it was Sarah Davis who was behind the net at the time & saw what happened that helped her up.
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It was Gillanders that helped her up.

D2D said:
She must pick her spots, because she's taken less than half the penalty minutes of UND's leader:
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I don't think she gets the ice time that she once did. Krzyzaniak, Hirschy, Eisenschmid, play a lot, and Hampton, Hanson, and Fallman are all often ahead of her in the rotation. She's just out there in the Ogglethorpe role. :eek:
 
Re: 2015 Pairwise Discussion & Predictions

Well this is interesting. The loss to St. Cloud today pushes Wisconsin below Harvard in the RPI but not the strict PWR calculations. At this point, all three criteria are pretty close but UW takes both vs. TUC and vs. COP.
 
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