Very simple solution on players side. Make your verbal commitments to more than one school and do not announce anything. Keep up the communications with all parties involved and then choose the one you will be attending during the nil signing period. If everything is non binding and schools are using this to their advantage to get kids off the market then you do what you have to do to protect yourself. Schools have to make an offer first to get a c ommittment, if they are prepared to offer it early they **** well better honour it later. Same for players, if a player has committed then no school should sign her if she breaks her commitment. Too bad.
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2015-2016 Division I Commitments
- Thread starter 96IllinoisDad
- Start date
Very simple solution on players side. Make your verbal commitments to more than one school and do not announce anything. Keep up the communications with all parties involved and then choose the one you will be attending during the nil signing period. If everything is non binding and schools are using this to their advantage to get kids off the market then you do what you have to do to protect yourself. Schools have to make an offer first to get a c ommittment, if they are prepared to offer it early they **** well better honour it later. Same for players, if a player has committed then no school should sign her if she breaks her commitment. Too bad.
Re: 2015-2016 Division I Commitments
That's not really the same thing at all. Since all schools are competing aggressively with several others for top prospects, most schools offer the same scholarship/roster spot to multiple players within a similar timeline hoping to get a commitment from someone on their short list. As long as they are clear on the timeline for acceptance (24 hrs, 2 weeks, July 1 etc) there isn't really a problem with this. It only gets dicey when a school only has a single scholarship remaining, and/or it's very late in the recruiting cycle. In the Coyne/Poulin situation, it was very late in the recruiting cycle (March!) that a single scholarship was held back for the coming September, hoping that one or the other would accept there. BU was taking a risk that neither would accept and they would be left with nothing. Had either player adhered to normal timelines and made their choice by the fall of Grade 12, there would have been no problem.
That's not really the same thing at all. Since all schools are competing aggressively with several others for top prospects, most schools offer the same scholarship/roster spot to multiple players within a similar timeline hoping to get a commitment from someone on their short list. As long as they are clear on the timeline for acceptance (24 hrs, 2 weeks, July 1 etc) there isn't really a problem with this. It only gets dicey when a school only has a single scholarship remaining, and/or it's very late in the recruiting cycle. In the Coyne/Poulin situation, it was very late in the recruiting cycle (March!) that a single scholarship was held back for the coming September, hoping that one or the other would accept there. BU was taking a risk that neither would accept and they would be left with nothing. Had either player adhered to normal timelines and made their choice by the fall of Grade 12, there would have been no problem.
Re: 2015-2016 Division I Commitments
I agree wholeheartedly. Having been blindsided and burned once by the shocking lack of integrity in the recruiting world, that's exactly what we did the next time around. Worked out perfectly, with lots of options still available through to the fall of Grade 12. Clear communication--and understanding of how you need to play the game to protect yourself--is key.
The big caveat is that the hockey world is very small and word travels very fast, so you have to be extraordinarily cautious about what is said.
I agree wholeheartedly. Having been blindsided and burned once by the shocking lack of integrity in the recruiting world, that's exactly what we did the next time around. Worked out perfectly, with lots of options still available through to the fall of Grade 12. Clear communication--and understanding of how you need to play the game to protect yourself--is key.
The big caveat is that the hockey world is very small and word travels very fast, so you have to be extraordinarily cautious about what is said.
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brookyone
Deport Right Wing Nuts
Re: 2015-2016 Division I Commitments
Disliking a rival and badmouthing a program and coaching staffs are different things in my view. I've read a lot of bad mouthing of quite a few programs and coaches in this forum over the years. Assertions made and later proven less than true. Just sayin'.
I'm not in the recruitment and coaching staff communications loop...so don't have Mutch more to say about BU in that regard.
I do know for one student athlete alluded to a little while back in the thread, recruitment and commitment circumstances were not quite as they've been depicted in this forum...on a couple occasions.
Disliking a rival and badmouthing a program and coaching staffs are different things in my view. I've read a lot of bad mouthing of quite a few programs and coaches in this forum over the years. Assertions made and later proven less than true. Just sayin'.
I'm not in the recruitment and coaching staff communications loop...so don't have Mutch more to say about BU in that regard.
I do know for one student athlete alluded to a little while back in the thread, recruitment and commitment circumstances were not quite as they've been depicted in this forum...on a couple occasions.
Re: 2015-2016 Division I Commitments
Nice dig haha.
Care to enlighten us then?
There are always two sides to every story...and sometimes the truth is in the middle. However, in a couple of cases in which I had close knowledge of the commitments (having had some involvement in the process with the player), the subsequent story I was told of the coach's version of the situation was ridiculous. Unfortunately, some well known posters on the board with ties to the coaches still chose to believe it anyways.
It's very convenient and easy to make Admissions a scapegoat for a change of heart. The reality though is that when you have an average of 6 applications going through an admissions department over 5-10 years or more, you have a large enough sample size to have a very good idea whether there is apt to be a possible issue. And if your school typically needs a 26 ACT, stop making commitments to players with 19s! At the very least, tell them if it is going to be borderline case, where they will likely need to get to, and by what timing, in order to fulfill the conditions of commitment.
It's bad enough when coaches renege. But the worst cases (and there are too many of these!) are when coaches fail to even communicate on a timely basis that they opted on reneging. I've seen cases where coaches just neglected to send the expected NLI and waited for the parents to contact them, and cases where Ivy Admissions or the coach waited until after the ED decision date passed to inform players of their change of heart....weeks after the application was received and the likely letters had been expected imminently.
Nice dig haha.
Care to enlighten us then?
There are always two sides to every story...and sometimes the truth is in the middle. However, in a couple of cases in which I had close knowledge of the commitments (having had some involvement in the process with the player), the subsequent story I was told of the coach's version of the situation was ridiculous. Unfortunately, some well known posters on the board with ties to the coaches still chose to believe it anyways.
It's very convenient and easy to make Admissions a scapegoat for a change of heart. The reality though is that when you have an average of 6 applications going through an admissions department over 5-10 years or more, you have a large enough sample size to have a very good idea whether there is apt to be a possible issue. And if your school typically needs a 26 ACT, stop making commitments to players with 19s! At the very least, tell them if it is going to be borderline case, where they will likely need to get to, and by what timing, in order to fulfill the conditions of commitment.
It's bad enough when coaches renege. But the worst cases (and there are too many of these!) are when coaches fail to even communicate on a timely basis that they opted on reneging. I've seen cases where coaches just neglected to send the expected NLI and waited for the parents to contact them, and cases where Ivy Admissions or the coach waited until after the ED decision date passed to inform players of their change of heart....weeks after the application was received and the likely letters had been expected imminently.
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96IllinoisDad
New member
Re: 2015-2016 Division I Commitments
Well, I hope you said this tounge in cheek. Just because 1 coach breaks a verbal commitment (I only knew of 1 and it wasn't BU) doesn't mean I would allow my D to not honor her word. I'd rather my daughter scramble with other options than use this tactic.
In addition, it will not work and could destroy your kid's chances (maybe not if you are a superstar). When a kid commits, I assume most coaches inform the kid's current head coach to notify them that the kid is "off the market". I know my D's future coach did. Do you think your D's current head coach is going to mislead other scouts and not mention that your kid is committed? Also, the coaching community is small. They talk.
Well, I hope you said this tounge in cheek. Just because 1 coach breaks a verbal commitment (I only knew of 1 and it wasn't BU) doesn't mean I would allow my D to not honor her word. I'd rather my daughter scramble with other options than use this tactic.
In addition, it will not work and could destroy your kid's chances (maybe not if you are a superstar). When a kid commits, I assume most coaches inform the kid's current head coach to notify them that the kid is "off the market". I know my D's future coach did. Do you think your D's current head coach is going to mislead other scouts and not mention that your kid is committed? Also, the coaching community is small. They talk.
brookyone
Deport Right Wing Nuts
ARM
Fan of chipmunk-like mascots.
Re: 2015-2016 Division I Commitments
The problem with discussing these cases is that there is no easy way to do it while being fair to everyone. For the student athlete involved, it is a private matter. If she wishes to share the story of her recruiting journey with the world, she is welcome to do so. If she doesn't, as a third party I'd be reluctant to name names. I'd agree that the program is more likely to back away, but not all programs do this. And sometime when it happens, it isn't part of a diabolical plot on the part of the coach. Things like injury redshirts can throw the scholarship timing off track. I do agree that communication is key for all parties, as it is with many things in life.
brookyone
Deport Right Wing Nuts
Re: 2015-2016 Division I Commitments
No. There's no real, good, valid reason for me to know anything about the circumstances outside of having a friend who's a close friend of the student athlete. Still not really any of my business so I won't be sharing details.
CanadaDude
New member
Re: 2015-2016 Division I Commitments
How does one commit to a school and not have any communication with the coaching staff over a long period of time? I would expect at least an assistant coach to be in contact no less than once a month after a verbal has been made.
How does one commit to a school and not have any communication with the coaching staff over a long period of time? I would expect at least an assistant coach to be in contact no less than once a month after a verbal has been made.
TonyTheTiger20
#SOAR
Re: 2015-2016 Division I Commitments
This has about as much to do about Mutch as it does with McCloskey. But you know that.
brookyone
Deport Right Wing Nuts
Re: 2015-2016 Division I Commitments
I don't know. Don't know what the question has to do with my post you quoted.
Re: 2015-2016 Division I Commitments
I'm not sure I understood this. Are you saying that a recruit should verbal to more than one school but keep it quiet? Is that possible and if so, what happens if it gets out? I assume coaches talk at various events. I'd be worried that it would "tick" off all the schools involved to the extent that they all pull their offers - but maybe not. Just curious about this.
I'm not sure I understood this. Are you saying that a recruit should verbal to more than one school but keep it quiet? Is that possible and if so, what happens if it gets out? I assume coaches talk at various events. I'd be worried that it would "tick" off all the schools involved to the extent that they all pull their offers - but maybe not. Just curious about this.
Royale with Cheese
New member
TonyTheTiger20
#SOAR
Re: 2015-2016 Division I Commitments
There are plenty of BU people that I like and enjoy hanging out with in person. That doesn't mean that I won't tell them to their face -- on an internet forum or otherwise -- that their diploma is a waste of paper and they'd get more use of it burning it to stay warm in the wintertime.
And then we laugh and order more wings. Lighten up, Francis. Sports are fun.
EDIT: Also, there's kind of a big difference between being "40 still hitting campus keggers" and enjoying a sports rivalry. But you knew this and still posted it.
Who are you to decide what level of fun determines whether or not someone is acting like a adult? Minnesota fans can't do their goal chant? Seriously? Someone better tell the 18,000 fans in attendance here that they should go to their room for being so childish.
There are plenty of BU people that I like and enjoy hanging out with in person. That doesn't mean that I won't tell them to their face -- on an internet forum or otherwise -- that their diploma is a waste of paper and they'd get more use of it burning it to stay warm in the wintertime.
And then we laugh and order more wings. Lighten up, Francis. Sports are fun.
EDIT: Also, there's kind of a big difference between being "40 still hitting campus keggers" and enjoying a sports rivalry. But you knew this and still posted it.
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Re: 2015-2016 Division I Commitments
Hey TTT... You forgot to ask if I wanted fries with that.
TonyTheTiger20
#SOAR
Re: 2015-2016 Division I Commitments
Oh I'm already planning a <strike>campus kegger</strike> calm, lovely, enjoyable outing with all you Minnesota posters during the Frozen FourHey TTT... You forgot to ask if I wanted fries with that.
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Re: 2015-2016 Division I Commitments
They're smart enough not to let Grant get anywhere near the cash.
Hey TTT... You forgot to ask if I wanted fries with that.
They're smart enough not to let Grant get anywhere near the cash.
Re: 2015-2016 Division I Commitments
No, I'm saying that, as others have indicated, a commitment is not a commitment at all until an NLI is signed or likely letter received. Therefore, when making a verbal commitment, you merely need to indicate what the conditions are for that commitment--eg. that the financials are in line, and that an assurance of admission is secured based on what you discussed. Once the school is able to honour those conditions officially, the commitment becomes firm. The expectation is that you will both do your part to make that happen as soon as possible. Until then, whatever you discuss with that coach remains between you (though he/she may gossip to other coaches). In the meantime, it's fair game to tell another school they are high on your list. As long as you don't lie to anyone, there's no problem.
You do not discuss it with your club coach or anyone else, and you do not take yourself off the market. If another club comes through with an equivalent or better offer down the road, and the #1 club is unable to fulfill their conditions on a timely basis when advised on the need to make good, you move on.
No, I'm saying that, as others have indicated, a commitment is not a commitment at all until an NLI is signed or likely letter received. Therefore, when making a verbal commitment, you merely need to indicate what the conditions are for that commitment--eg. that the financials are in line, and that an assurance of admission is secured based on what you discussed. Once the school is able to honour those conditions officially, the commitment becomes firm. The expectation is that you will both do your part to make that happen as soon as possible. Until then, whatever you discuss with that coach remains between you (though he/she may gossip to other coaches). In the meantime, it's fair game to tell another school they are high on your list. As long as you don't lie to anyone, there's no problem.
You do not discuss it with your club coach or anyone else, and you do not take yourself off the market. If another club comes through with an equivalent or better offer down the road, and the #1 club is unable to fulfill their conditions on a timely basis when advised on the need to make good, you move on.
Re: 2015-2016 Division I Commitments
Actually, it is typical that once you have made a commitment, you don't hear at all from the coaches for months. Most players are surprised about this. The coaches have moved on to focus their attention on their current team, and the next recruiting cycle.
Actually, it is typical that once you have made a commitment, you don't hear at all from the coaches for months. Most players are surprised about this. The coaches have moved on to focus their attention on their current team, and the next recruiting cycle.