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2015-2016 Division I Commitments
- Thread starter 96IllinoisDad
- Start date
Re: 2015-2016 Division I Commitments
Minnesota confirms three of the four...
http://www.gophersports.com/sports/w-hockey/spec-rel/121214aaa.html
Minnesota confirms three of the four...
http://www.gophersports.com/sports/w-hockey/spec-rel/121214aaa.html
ARM
Fan of chipmunk-like mascots.
Re: 2015-2016 Division I Commitments
Personally, I think all we can be responsible for is how we conduct ourselves. Anyone can act honorably when everything is going their way. When people act honorably even when it would benefit them to take a lower road, that's when it is most impressive.
I wouldn't think of my child's future coach as an opponent, and if you do, then that probably isn't a good fit for a program.
Personally, I think all we can be responsible for is how we conduct ourselves. Anyone can act honorably when everything is going their way. When people act honorably even when it would benefit them to take a lower road, that's when it is most impressive.
Re: 2015-2016 Division I Commitments
Why are you going to the frozen four? To watch Mercyhurst, MN, WI & QU?
As far as verbal commitments, its a dog eat dog world! Coaches need to win, that is how they make a living. If you agreed to sell your car for a $1,000 and while the dude went to the bank a new guy offered you $3,000. What to do? Some would say the car is sold most would take the 3K. Life ain't fair, get over it.
Why are you going to the frozen four? To watch Mercyhurst, MN, WI & QU?
As far as verbal commitments, its a dog eat dog world! Coaches need to win, that is how they make a living. If you agreed to sell your car for a $1,000 and while the dude went to the bank a new guy offered you $3,000. What to do? Some would say the car is sold most would take the 3K. Life ain't fair, get over it.
TonyTheTiger20
#SOAR
Re: 2015-2016 Division I Commitments
UMD Women's Hockey Signs Two
http://kdal610.com/news/articles/2014/dec/11/umd-womens-hockey-signs-two/
There was a third commit posted in this thread above, but she's not mentioned in this article. However one of the signed recruits, goaltender Maddie Rooney, is off to an excellent start as one of the Andover High School boy's team goaltenders, as highlighted in a recent Star Tribune article here: http://www.mngirlshockeyhub.com/news_article/show/455864?referrer_id=868951
UMD Women's Hockey Signs Two
http://kdal610.com/news/articles/2014/dec/11/umd-womens-hockey-signs-two/
There was a third commit posted in this thread above, but she's not mentioned in this article. However one of the signed recruits, goaltender Maddie Rooney, is off to an excellent start as one of the Andover High School boy's team goaltenders, as highlighted in a recent Star Tribune article here: http://www.mngirlshockeyhub.com/news_article/show/455864?referrer_id=868951
I wouldn't think of my child's future coach as an opponent, and if you do, then that probably isn't a good fit for a program.
Personally, I think all we can be responsible for is how we conduct ourselves. Anyone can act honorably when everything is going their way. When people act honorably even when it would benefit them to take a lower road, that's when it is most impressive.
Agreed. Opponent was a poor choice of words but couldnt come up with a better one at the time--what I meant was a counterpart in a negotiation or transaction.
It's important to find a coach/program who's values you share, as they influence your child for good or not. If you value integrity over self-involvement, make sure you do your homework to find one who shares those values.
Blackbeard
Well-known member
Re: 2015-2016 Division I Commitments
Exactly.
And as I mentioned a number of years ago, never lose sight of the fact that it is just business, because if you do then you are automatically and voluntarily placing yourself at a disadvantage.
Good example but instead of characterizing it as "life ain't fair, get over it" I would say life is a school ground where we are endlessly given the opportunity to learn lessons, the same ones over and over and over again until we actually learn them one by one and they become part of our DNA, at which point we grow and move on to repeat the process learning different ones. So, while you're right in saying most would take the $3K I would say learn that lesson and never forget it (of course, "learning it" implies that you will never forget it). And the lesson is that only a small minority of people actually have the integrity to keep their word and to honour their commitments when circumstances change afterwards and it now becomes inconvenient to do so.
Most have no such moral compass.
Hockey coaches are just part of the gene pool and the numbers apply equally to them.
.
Exactly.
And as I mentioned a number of years ago, never lose sight of the fact that it is just business, because if you do then you are automatically and voluntarily placing yourself at a disadvantage.
.
Good example but instead of characterizing it as "life ain't fair, get over it" I would say life is a school ground where we are endlessly given the opportunity to learn lessons, the same ones over and over and over again until we actually learn them one by one and they become part of our DNA, at which point we grow and move on to repeat the process learning different ones. So, while you're right in saying most would take the $3K I would say learn that lesson and never forget it (of course, "learning it" implies that you will never forget it). And the lesson is that only a small minority of people actually have the integrity to keep their word and to honour their commitments when circumstances change afterwards and it now becomes inconvenient to do so.
Most have no such moral compass.
Hockey coaches are just part of the gene pool and the numbers apply equally to them.
Blackbeard
Well-known member
Re: 2015-2016 Division I Commitments
Fixed your post. (Because this is all one can realistically do).
But you already know this.
Fixed your post. (Because this is all one can realistically do).
But you already know this.
Re: 2015-2016 Division I Commitments
I may be a bit slow but if there are schools/coaches who are 'famous' for reneging, why would you want to deal with them at all? Second, if they are so famous, why hasn't a list of these schools/coaches been posted by a member of this forum? There are a lot of knowledgeable people on here and I would expect members to warn each other if schools were truly famous for reneging. Lastly, as you yourself said, word travels quickly in the hockey world. Logic would say that a school/coach would do anything to avoid being famous for reneging as it would surely have an impact on future recruiting. Word travels fast on this forum as well, but when it comes to unethical programs/coaches it tends to be presented as generalized hearsay rather than hard facts.
So please spill the beans or keep quiet. My take is that there may be a small number of coaches who lack the communication and strategic skills to recruit properly/competently and as a result, misunderstandings take place and mistakes are made. There also may be an even smaller number of truly unethical coaches. On the other hand, each year you've got a new crop of girls and their parents who enter this complicated world of recruiting without too much guidance. Many of the recruits enter the process with unrealistic expectations of where there should end up (both in terms of hockey ability and academic performance). That's why I'm asking you to give us a list of who you think are the unethical coaches/programs or keep quiet because if you are going to make such a broad claim you should back it up with some evidence or at least your opinion on specific programs.
I appreciate your more nuanced post of 12/12 7:24, but at the end you are still claiming that you have knowledge of a good number of cases without giving us specifics.
I may be a bit slow but if there are schools/coaches who are 'famous' for reneging, why would you want to deal with them at all? Second, if they are so famous, why hasn't a list of these schools/coaches been posted by a member of this forum? There are a lot of knowledgeable people on here and I would expect members to warn each other if schools were truly famous for reneging. Lastly, as you yourself said, word travels quickly in the hockey world. Logic would say that a school/coach would do anything to avoid being famous for reneging as it would surely have an impact on future recruiting. Word travels fast on this forum as well, but when it comes to unethical programs/coaches it tends to be presented as generalized hearsay rather than hard facts.
So please spill the beans or keep quiet. My take is that there may be a small number of coaches who lack the communication and strategic skills to recruit properly/competently and as a result, misunderstandings take place and mistakes are made. There also may be an even smaller number of truly unethical coaches. On the other hand, each year you've got a new crop of girls and their parents who enter this complicated world of recruiting without too much guidance. Many of the recruits enter the process with unrealistic expectations of where there should end up (both in terms of hockey ability and academic performance). That's why I'm asking you to give us a list of who you think are the unethical coaches/programs or keep quiet because if you are going to make such a broad claim you should back it up with some evidence or at least your opinion on specific programs.
I appreciate your more nuanced post of 12/12 7:24, but at the end you are still claiming that you have knowledge of a good number of cases without giving us specifics.
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HockeyEast33
New member
Re: 2015-2016 Division I Commitments
My understanding is that Coyne was hanging on for Harvard admission at the coaching staff's request/promise and was aware that the BU opportunity could go away at any point in time. The problem here was that Poulin came along and committed to BU prior to Harvard finally saying no to Coyne. It actually speaks well of BU that they didn't drop a commitment/player at that point to get Coyne, which certainly would have been tempting...
My understanding is that Coyne was hanging on for Harvard admission at the coaching staff's request/promise and was aware that the BU opportunity could go away at any point in time. The problem here was that Poulin came along and committed to BU prior to Harvard finally saying no to Coyne. It actually speaks well of BU that they didn't drop a commitment/player at that point to get Coyne, which certainly would have been tempting...
Re: 2015-2016 Division I Commitments
I think Coyne took a post grad year to get her grades and scores to where Harvard would accept her. When that didn't happen, she opted for Northeastern. But Harvard was definitely one of her top choices as she indicated as much in an article that was posted on one of the chat threads here.
I think Coyne took a post grad year to get her grades and scores to where Harvard would accept her. When that didn't happen, she opted for Northeastern. But Harvard was definitely one of her top choices as she indicated as much in an article that was posted on one of the chat threads here.
Re: 2015-2016 Division I Commitments
You answered your own question. Coaches do get away with it for many years because every year there is a new crop of prospects, many/most of which are naive and trusting, and don't seek enough guidance from those in the know. Eventually it does catch up with the coaches who do it often enough though to deter a lot of good players. Unfortunately, if it's a strong enough school or hockey program, they can still do relatively ok.
Why should it be kept quiet? So those unscrupulous coaches can continue reneging on unsuspecting prospects? It should be enough that people be warned that there are some coaches and programs that should not be trusted, the magnitude of the risk among committed prospects, and that you need to do lots of research as well as be cautious and contingency plan if you still want to take your chances. It's not my job to do your research for you. Not to mention that some of those who ended up elsewhere would probably not wish to have the details of their unpleasant experiences broadly publicized on this forum anyway. There is plenty of evidence out there, and many of the examples have been discussed in various threads on this forum over the past few years. Start looking there.
You can be sure D1 coaches are well aware of which ones among them are known for doing this, and some are willing to talk about it...as are many of the top club coaches who place lots of players, and obviously the various education/recruiting advisors who assist prospects in navigating the process. In addition, talking to current players and alumni will also give you information on players who may have had such experiences. Talk to all of them. Hire you own advisor.
Those who know me know that I can name enough specific cases to back up the numbers cited. But no one should choose or reject a program based simply on my opinion, or anyone else's, without doing their own due diligence.
You answered your own question. Coaches do get away with it for many years because every year there is a new crop of prospects, many/most of which are naive and trusting, and don't seek enough guidance from those in the know. Eventually it does catch up with the coaches who do it often enough though to deter a lot of good players. Unfortunately, if it's a strong enough school or hockey program, they can still do relatively ok.
Why should it be kept quiet? So those unscrupulous coaches can continue reneging on unsuspecting prospects? It should be enough that people be warned that there are some coaches and programs that should not be trusted, the magnitude of the risk among committed prospects, and that you need to do lots of research as well as be cautious and contingency plan if you still want to take your chances. It's not my job to do your research for you. Not to mention that some of those who ended up elsewhere would probably not wish to have the details of their unpleasant experiences broadly publicized on this forum anyway. There is plenty of evidence out there, and many of the examples have been discussed in various threads on this forum over the past few years. Start looking there.
You can be sure D1 coaches are well aware of which ones among them are known for doing this, and some are willing to talk about it...as are many of the top club coaches who place lots of players, and obviously the various education/recruiting advisors who assist prospects in navigating the process. In addition, talking to current players and alumni will also give you information on players who may have had such experiences. Talk to all of them. Hire you own advisor.
Those who know me know that I can name enough specific cases to back up the numbers cited. But no one should choose or reject a program based simply on my opinion, or anyone else's, without doing their own due diligence.
Re: 2015-2016 Division I Commitments
It's not actually the same thing...it's a sad commentary when people are treated as property or possessions without feelings or futures at stake. It makes no difference to the car who owns it. Having said that though, you should consider yourself lucky if you don't have to spend the next 4 years under the leadership of someone lacking ethics, and being treated merely as a piece of property to use and abuse as they see fit. Fortunately, there are many coaches out there who do care about their players as people.
It's not actually the same thing...it's a sad commentary when people are treated as property or possessions without feelings or futures at stake. It makes no difference to the car who owns it. Having said that though, you should consider yourself lucky if you don't have to spend the next 4 years under the leadership of someone lacking ethics, and being treated merely as a piece of property to use and abuse as they see fit. Fortunately, there are many coaches out there who do care about their players as people.
Re: 2015-2016 Division I Commitments
Those coaches who send a player packing don't care? This is a business. Did Brooks not care about Ralph Cox? In the eye of the coach, the player did not live up to the bargain. Because a player verbal commits does that mean she can now lower her stock price? Even if her stock price stays the same, should the coach not try to land a Blue Chip? I would think that if a coach didn't that he or she would lack integrity & ethics toward his or her program. And even perhaps his or her family (remember livelihood)
I agree but what if the coach recruited her in her Junior year and in her senior year her game went to ****? I'll agree to disagree with you on this.
Those coaches who send a player packing don't care? This is a business. Did Brooks not care about Ralph Cox? In the eye of the coach, the player did not live up to the bargain. Because a player verbal commits does that mean she can now lower her stock price? Even if her stock price stays the same, should the coach not try to land a Blue Chip? I would think that if a coach didn't that he or she would lack integrity & ethics toward his or her program. And even perhaps his or her family (remember livelihood)
I agree but what if the coach recruited her in her Junior year and in her senior year her game went to ****? I'll agree to disagree with you on this.
CanadaDude
New member
Re: 2015-2016 Division I Commitments
I have seen this first hand. Commit happens. Player only plays hard enough not to get hurt. Do this too long and their game suffers. A big issue about early commitments.
I have seen this first hand. Commit happens. Player only plays hard enough not to get hurt. Do this too long and their game suffers. A big issue about early commitments.
ARM
Fan of chipmunk-like mascots.
Re: 2015-2016 Division I Commitments
Note that this is different than if a coach makes an offer to a player, but the player does not accept the offer. That coach has the option to rescind the unaccepted offer at any time.
The coach is free to try to land a Blue Chip -- just not with the scholarship money that has been verbally promised to the recruit in question. Either a person's word is worth something or it's not. We all get to decide which will be the case in our own lives.
Note that this is different than if a coach makes an offer to a player, but the player does not accept the offer. That coach has the option to rescind the unaccepted offer at any time.
Re: 2015-2016 Division I Commitments
I actually can't think of a case that the coach backed out where the player's game was going to ****. Many of the players ultimately ended up at the top end of the league, or at least their team in stats, and/or eventually went on to become captains on their new teams. O'Connor is currently the top scoring defenseman in the ECAC...as a rookie. In some cases, reneging occurred mere months after committing, after their game was tracked for years.
If a coach doesn't want to risk a player's game plateauing, there's a simple solution: just don't commit to them in Grade 10 or early Grade 11. The problem is that some coaches are just stockpiling recruits so their competitors don't get them, and then throwing them back into the pond like it's no big deal when some bigger fish comes along willing to commit.
I actually can't think of a case that the coach backed out where the player's game was going to ****. Many of the players ultimately ended up at the top end of the league, or at least their team in stats, and/or eventually went on to become captains on their new teams. O'Connor is currently the top scoring defenseman in the ECAC...as a rookie. In some cases, reneging occurred mere months after committing, after their game was tracked for years.
If a coach doesn't want to risk a player's game plateauing, there's a simple solution: just don't commit to them in Grade 10 or early Grade 11. The problem is that some coaches are just stockpiling recruits so their competitors don't get them, and then throwing them back into the pond like it's no big deal when some bigger fish comes along willing to commit.
pokechecker
Banned
Re: 2015-2016 Division I Commitments
not the same thing, the car isn't sold until the money is exchanged, anybody who waits while someone goes "to the bank" is a sucker, when selling a used car, first person with the money gets it
when a player and coach make a commitment, it is a promise what both will do in the future, if one of them breaks it .... they didn't keep their end of the bargain, IOW, their word is no good
not the same thing, the car isn't sold until the money is exchanged, anybody who waits while someone goes "to the bank" is a sucker, when selling a used car, first person with the money gets it
when a player and coach make a commitment, it is a promise what both will do in the future, if one of them breaks it .... they didn't keep their end of the bargain, IOW, their word is no good
Blackbeard
Well-known member
Re: 2015-2016 Division I Commitments
Of course it's the same thing, there was a meeting of the minds...the seller agreed to sell for $1K and the buyer agreed to buy it for that price. There was an agreement..."a promise what both will do in the future".
Now, I agree with you that for the seller to wait more than a reasonable amount of time is very foolish...maybe an hour or two for the buyer to get the cash or a draft at the bank...and the seller would have been stupid not to stipulate a condition like that so that there was no misunderstanding and more importantly, so he doesn't leave himself vulnerable to being jerked around...but Call It's example didn't come with conditions and as such, it is the same thing.
Of course it's the same thing, there was a meeting of the minds...the seller agreed to sell for $1K and the buyer agreed to buy it for that price. There was an agreement..."a promise what both will do in the future".
Now, I agree with you that for the seller to wait more than a reasonable amount of time is very foolish...maybe an hour or two for the buyer to get the cash or a draft at the bank...and the seller would have been stupid not to stipulate a condition like that so that there was no misunderstanding and more importantly, so he doesn't leave himself vulnerable to being jerked around...but Call It's example didn't come with conditions and as such, it is the same thing.