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2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

Regardless of today's outcome, I don't know how you justify having only 1 ref at this level of competition - Olympics, Worlds, Nations etc...
 
Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

Congrats to Canada for playing a solid game, particularly in the 3rd period keeping the US away from their net. Congratulations aside, the refs call on the 2nd goal was one of the worst calls I have ever witnessed. The officiating crew was clearly was out of their depth today ( missing 2 of the 3 too many players instances and some curious inconsistencies in body contact penalties on both sides of the equation.) The call on the goal, however, was the doozy since it had a major impact on the game and it was absolutely wrong. Not sure what the video review rules are and if there is audio involved but as far as the officiating guidelines are- the play is actually dead when the referee makes the DECISION to blow the whistle and that equalises referees in their ability to get their whistle blown and any physical limitations to that happening. e.g. I am the ref and i lose sight of the puck and decide to blow my whistle, while i am in the process of getting the whistle blown when a player bumps into me and I can't get the whistle in my mouth for a second or two. meanwhile the puck squirts out and into the net. A good referee will disallow the goal, despite the seeming unfairness and protestations of the coaches. It has to be that way because of how things can happen in hockey and it takes the subjectivity out of the decision for the ref. In this case the whistle blew before it crossed the line but what makes it worse is that the play was dead before the whistle blew based on guidelines of when the play ends. Which means the play was officially dead inches if not feet before crossing the line. The officials inexperience is really disappointing. The Japan disallowed goal is another perfect example.
 
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Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

Timothy A said:
I would have hoped Stone would have made in game changes to the plan to counter what the canucks were doing to their breakout.
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pokechecker said:
this is where the Canucks have a big advantage, former NHL coach should be able to do a better job of implementing and adapting a forecheck than a college coach
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Do you think coaching was a big advantage here? Now if there was discrepancy in in-game adjustments, it would've been Canada making better 2nd intermission adjustments rather than the U.S. failing to react to earlier adjustments. Clearly Canada had an edge in the first period despite being outshot, and the U.S. was much better in the second period.

As far as advantages in coaching knowledge go, I would also hope that Katey has some advantage in knowledge specific to women's hockey and knowledge of her personnel. Overall though, I don't expect coaching to be a huge advantage for either side.

I hate to focus too much on two players, but I'd say the biggest difference is just that Agosta & Wickenheiser are better and more comfortable at this level than anyone the U.S. has.
 
Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

Eeyore said:
I'll also say that, as much as I agree the refs have let too much checking to go on, U.S. fans really shouldn't be complaining about it because Kendall Coyne should have missed today's game as she sat out a suspension for the elbow that laid out Lara Stalder.
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You should have paid closer attention to the replay. Coyne moved her arm back to get around the Swiss player at the blueline. Coyne's stick was straight up in the air and her right hand was against her shoulder and the Swiss player went straight into Coyne's hand/shoulder. Remember, Coyne is 5' 1," and the Swiss player was bent over. There was no elbow thrown, no penalty missed. Two objects moving in opposite directions and the one leading with her head lost.

The most blatant missed call was 6' Hilary Knight being dumped when the D stepped into her as she cut to the top of the slot. If you step up and knock her down there is no way you can call it incidental.
 
Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

Hux said:
You should have paid closer attention to the replay. Coyne moved her arm back to get around the Swiss player at the blueline. Coyne's stick was straight up in the air and her right hand was against her shoulder and the Swiss player went straight into Coyne's hand/shoulder. Remember, Coyne is 5' 1," and the Swiss player was bent over. There was no elbow thrown, no penalty missed. Two objects moving in opposite directions and the one leading with her head lost.

The most blatant missed call was 6' Hilary Knight being dumped when the D stepped into her as she cut to the top of the slot. If you step up and knock her down there is no way you can call it incidental.
Click to expand...

I agree with both parts of this - Coyne did all she could to get out of the way. But she's fast and collisions happen. Everything about that was incidental. Eeyore, you're literally the only person I've seen complain about it - nothing on Twitter or during the game itself.

I was shocked when Knight got leveled - that girl is SOLID muscle and it happened kind of in the periphery of a shot, so I almost wondered if I imagined it. Then they showed a replay and I was like "daaaaammmmnn, that's a hit."
 
Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

According to IIHF website, Canadiens will get bracketed against Finland; USA vs. Swiss in the semi-finals. That's assuming the Finns and Swiss win their quarter-final matches against yet to be determined opponents (from Group B - most likely Sweden and Russia). It took Finns OT to be Swiss today. I think Canada has the tougher go in the semis (they'll still win, though)
 
Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

dave1381 said:
Do you think coaching was a big advantage here? Now if there was discrepancy in in-game adjustments, it would've been Canada making better 2nd intermission adjustments rather than the U.S. failing to react to earlier adjustments. Clearly Canada had an edge in the first period despite being outshot, and the U.S. was much better in the second period.

As far as advantages in coaching knowledge go, I would also hope that Katey has some advantage in knowledge specific to women's hockey and knowledge of her personnel. Overall though, I don't expect coaching to be a huge advantage for either side.

I hate to focus too much on two players, but I'd say the biggest difference is just that Agosta & Wickenheiser are better and more comfortable at this level than anyone the U.S. has.
Click to expand...

Hold that thought and lets wait to see what happens in the rematch. As a fan of the Canadian team I was quite prepared to reluctantly accept the idea that Wickenheiser was well past her prime and that Kessel would be the dominant player in this tournament. Wick had an incredible game and I didn't even notice Kessel on the ice. As everyone who has ever played the game knows, each game is a different world. I have absolutely no idea which team or which players will show up in the gold medal game (assuming both teams get there), but I do know that I will be glued to the TV set.
 
Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

ExHockeyguy said:
According to IIHF website, Canadiens will get bracketed against Finland; USA vs. Swiss in the semi-finals. That's assuming the Finns and Swiss win their quarter-final matches against yet to be determined opponents (from Group B - most likely Sweden and Russia). It took Finns OT to be Swiss today. I think Canada has the tougher go in the semis (they'll still win, though)
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Pretty sure that both Sweden and Russia are already guaranteed to advance. Order between the two to be decided tommorow. The winner in the head to head to face Switzerland, the loser Finland.

I think the bracket looks like this: (This is assuming they do NOT re-seed after every round)

CAN vs Winner of [ Swi - Winner Swe/Rus]

USA vs Winner of [ Fin - loser Swe/Rus]

Edit: The above is right. Explained in detail on NBC site http://www.nbcolympics.com/news/breaking-down-womens-olympic-hockey-brackets
 
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Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

MANY people should be fired by tomorrow because of the intensely horrendous officiating. Fly in NHL refs at whatever expense and get them on the ice for the elimination games. There is no excuse for these kinds of failures at this level. None.
 
Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

Just posted this in the UMD thread but thought some might enjoy it so I'm posting it here as well.

Ron Mclean & Don Cherry in "Coach's Corner"...

Cherry says Larocque "should be in the NHL"!!...

He was waxing enthusiastically about her during the TSN post game broadcast but I can't find it so this will have to do...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWbC6HBevAM
 
Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

backhand sauce said:
Congrats to Canada for playing a solid game, particularly in the 3rd period keeping the US away from their net. Congratulations aside, the refs call on the 2nd goal was one of the worst calls I have ever witnessed. The officiating crew was clearly was out of their depth today ( missing 2 of the 3 too many players instances and some curious inconsistencies in body contact penalties on both sides of the equation.) The call on the goal, however, was the doozy since it had a major impact on the game and it was absolutely wrong. Not sure what the video review rules are and if there is audio involved but as far as the officiating guidelines are- the play is actually dead when the referee makes the DECISION to blow the whistle and that equalises referees in their ability to get their whistle blown and any physical limitations to that happening. e.g. I am the ref and i lose sight of the puck and decide to blow my whistle, while i am in the process of getting the whistle blown when a player bumps into me and I can't get the whistle in my mouth for a second or two. meanwhile the puck squirts out and into the net. A good referee will disallow the goal, despite the seeming unfairness and protestations of the coaches. It has to be that way because of how things can happen in hockey and it takes the subjectivity out of the decision for the ref. In this case the whistle blew before it crossed the line but what makes it worse is that the play was dead before the whistle blew based on guidelines of when the play ends. Which means the play was officially dead inches if not feet before crossing the line. The officials inexperience is really disappointing. The Japan disallowed goal is another perfect example.
Click to expand...

The biggest problem with this whole saga is that the Ref was nowhere nears in the right position to make the right call. I mean if you are at the Blue line when the puck goes in how can you A: call a goal or not, B: decide you need to blow the whistle to halt play.

This was not the gold medal game, so it does not matter a whole lot. If both teams take care of business, they will meet again Just remember that in most recent championship events the team that won in the RR lost in the Final. It was a great and entertaining game. Hopefully it garners some more fans. Lets move on and look forward to the rest of the tourney.

Here is a great pictorial of today's games. Enjoy:
http://www.buzzfeed.com/mrloganrhoades/54-photos-that-perfectly-recap-the-canada-usa-womens-hockey
 
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Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

Blackbeard said:
Just posted this in the UMD thread but thought some might enjoy it so I'm posting it here as well.

Ron Mclean & Don Cherry in "Coach's Corner"...

Cherry says Larocque "should be in the NHL"!!...

He was waxing enthusiastically about her during the TSN post game broadcast but I can't find it so this will have to do...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWbC6HBevAM
Click to expand...

Typical Cherry rant.....He dubbed her "The Rock from Manitoba"
 
Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

Hux said:
Japan got screwed by the officials
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They have another obstacle that they have to overcome that most other teams don't. During the Sweden - Japan game Cassie Campbell explained that in a discussion with Carla McLeod (asst. coach Team Japan) McLeod told her that at a team meeting Mcleod asked who believed that they would actually win a game or two (or something to that effect) and not a single player raised her hand.

Maybe more importantly, McLeod was explaining that her players have to overcome a cultural barrier/obstacle in that it is frowned upon in Japan for females to be competitive!! Talk about trying to overcome a stacked deck.

They just deserve that much more respect...because after all, isn't this game really about the empowerment of women?

Which reminds me, as difficult as this may be to believe...and I got this from a high profile Finish player and it certainly shocked me at the time...a similar barrier exists in Finland where, apparently, women playing hockey is also seriously frowned upon.
 
Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

This is awesome. The streaming feed of the Germany/Japan game has no commentators. It's just the arena sounds.
 
Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

Blackbeard said:
They have another obstacle that they have to overcome that most other teams don't. During the Sweden - Japan game Cassie Campbell explained that in a discussion with Carla McLeod (asst. coach Team Japan) McLeod told her that at a team meeting Mcleod asked who believed that they would actually win a game or two (or something to that effect) and not a single player raised her hand.
Click to expand...

They're playing like they want to prove themselves wrong.

Maybe more importantly, McLeod was explaining that her players have to overcome a cultural barrier/obstacle in that it is frowned upon in Japan for females to be competitive!! Talk about trying to overcome a stacked deck.
Click to expand...

Considering the success of their women's soccer team, hopefully they're making progress on this.

I was talking to a couple of people who have become regulars at Ridder this year (I've seen them before but hadn't chatted until this past Saturday). They're Japanese and big hockey fans. They first came when the Japanese team was here back in October and have kept coming. It was a fun conversation.
 
Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

hab said:
Hold that thought and lets wait to see what happens in the rematch. As a fan of the Canadian team I was quite prepared to reluctantly accept the idea that Wickenheiser was well past her prime and that Kessel would be the dominant player in this tournament. Wick had an incredible game and I didn't even notice Kessel on the ice. As everyone who has ever played the game knows, each game is a different world. I have absolutely no idea which team or which players will show up in the gold medal game (assuming both teams get there), but I do know that I will be glued to the TV set.
Click to expand...
I'm with you there, but at the same time I think these veterans who've done it before are a huge advantage for Canada. I've at times shared the sentiment for them to move on, but I think you let them play until proven otherwise.

A fact I don't think I've seen reported elsewhere is I that all three goal scorers from the 2002 gold medal game (Ouellette, Wick, Hefford) are still on the Canadian roster. Compare to the U.S., where Chu is the only player left from the 2002 or 2006 rosters.

In terms of projecting Kessel as the dominant player, I do think, we tend to overweight the performance in the prior World Championship. College players, current or recent (within a year), are simply much better prepared for the Worlds than veterans when there's no centralization. But then centralization levels the playing field. For example, Botterill, Ruggiero, Wendell, Cahow each had some standout Worlds during or within a year of college, but each had less of an impact in the nearest Olympics after college (not to imply they weren't good, they just didn't match their exceptional success at Worlds). I think Agosta has been the most successful 4-year U.S. college player in the Olympics by far.

I agree in one game anything can happen, but over 14 years of college hockey some patterns do seem to emerge.
 
Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

OnMAA said:
The biggest problem with this whole saga is that the Ref was nowhere nears in the right position to make the right call. I mean if you are at the Blue line when the puck goes in how can you A: call a goal or not, B: decide you need to blow the whistle to halt play.

This was not the gold medal game, so it does not matter a whole lot. If both teams take care of business, they will meet again Just remember that in most recent championship events the team that won in the RR lost in the Final. It was a great and entertaining game. Hopefully it garners some more fans. Lets move on and look forward to the rest of the tourney.

Here is a great pictorial of today's games. Enjoy:
http://www.buzzfeed.com/mrloganrhoades/54-photos-that-perfectly-recap-the-canada-usa-womens-hockey
Click to expand...

Much has been said about a Canadian goal being "controversial". I don't know what feed everyone is watching on however one of the channels here (either CBC, TSN or SN) had a bit on how the refereeing is done in Sochi prior to the games beginning. They stated that the refs were told NOT to be close to the net (like all of us here are used to). That being said, after multiple reviews of the goal and knowing some very qualified referees, they all said "IF a ref was in position there would not have been a whistle in the first place. The puck was NOT in Vetter's control. Yes it is evident that the whistle went before it crossed the line...it wasn't reviewable...goal goes to Canada...BUT...in a perfect refereeing world...It would have been a goal anyway

I agree that this level of hockey, especially on Olympic size ice, required 2 refs and 2 linesmen/women
 
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