2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

[ARM]

He is a decisive advantage for Team Canada.

I think that is TBD. Does he have more experience with hockey at all levels? Yes. Where he is at a disadvantage is with experience with the 21 players on the rosters of the US and Canada. He inherited a team that was on a winning streak versus the US and looked to be much the better team. Once he took over, his team lost the rest of the head-to-head pre-Olympic exhibitions. I'm not blaming him, because clearly it would take some time to come up to speed with his new team and gain an understanding of his opponents. He has admitted as much in interviews. Now his team has won a game. Does that mean that he is fully up to speed and knows everything there is to know about both teams? I would think he is still learning. He started at a disadvantage, I'm sure that has decreased to a large extent, but it isn't a foregone conclusion that he now has an advantage over another coach that has known some of these players for a decade or more. You may be correct, but it isn't as simple as pointing at a resume.

 

[OneTimer]

Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

You sure about that ?. NHL has more team staff to do this stuff, but that does not mean the Head Coach does more than his/her college counterpart. You could even argue that a college coach with less staff at his/her disposal does more of it themselves.

I am very, very, very sure about this.

 

[ARM]

The refs in the Olympics haven't been any better.

The Olympic refs have been far worse. The WCHA refs are at least familiar with the game they are officiating. The Olympic refs are in over their heads. The ref who was doing the Swiss/Finland game and put five Finnish skaters on the ice even though Finland had a penalty on the clock was an NCAA ref for some time, but I haven't seen her recently.

 

[Hux]

Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

They have another obstacle that they have to overcome that most other teams don't. During the Sweden - Japan game Cassie Campbell explained that in a discussion with Carla McLeod (asst. coach Team Japan) McLeod told her that at a team meeting Mcleod asked who believed that they would actually win a game or two (or something to that effect) and not a single player raised her hand.

Maybe more importantly, McLeod was explaining that her players have to overcome a cultural barrier/obstacle in that it is frowned upon in Japan for females to be competitive!! Talk about trying to overcome a stacked deck.

They just deserve that much more respect...because after all, isn't this game really about the empowerment of women?

Which reminds me, as difficult as this may be to believe...and I got this from a high profile Finish player and it certainly shocked me at the time...a similar barrier exists in Finland where, apparently, women playing hockey is also seriously frowned upon.

Given the paucity of rinks in many of these countries I think you can lay money down that a lot of it has to do with trying to ensure little (and big) Mikey gets ice time. In one of my neighboring towns they have no girls town program despite having a plethora of girls who play. The reason given was "they are welcome to play with the boys." The unstated reason that was told to me by a former board member was "we don't want to give up ice to girls teams. Let them go to another town, or a club program if they want to play only with girls."


Unrelated: Anyone else find themselves walking around singing the Underdog theme song the past few days? Can't get it out of my head thanks to the commercial.

 

[Hux]

Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

Russia up 2-0 in the second on Sweden. Sweden unable to generate much in the way of offense, let alone scoring chances.

 

[Hux]

Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

Russia 2
Sweden 1 after two.

Sweden picks up the pace and notches a late goal to cut the lead in half.

 

[ARM]

Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

Referee two zones behind the play calls a phantom hook on Sweden with 5 1/2 to go. She then awards a Russian goal on a play where the linesman called offside, and it takes her two minutes to figure it out. Only AJ was more confused.

 

[hockey13]

Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

Respectfully, with no sense of confrontation here, in this case the Dineen family background does make a big difference. They are a legendary New England hockey family for several generations.

I hear you. No disrespect to KD or his family. My personal take is that I've seen exceptional people come out of family with no experience, and I've found the opposite to be true. So, if I personally were putting together a list of +/- for a coach, I wouldn't include the success/failure or experience of their forebears. But, that's what makes horse racing...

Fair enough.

 

[hockey13]

Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

I think that is TBD. Does he have more experience with hockey at all levels? Yes. Where he is at a disadvantage is with experience with the 21 players on the rosters of the US and Canada. He inherited a team that was on a winning streak versus the US and looked to be much the better team. Once he took over, his team lost the rest of the head-to-head pre-Olympic exhibitions. I'm not blaming him, because clearly it would take some time to come up to speed with his new team and gain an understanding of his opponents. He has admitted as much in interviews. Now his team has won a game. Does that mean that he is fully up to speed and knows everything there is to know about both teams? I would think he is still learning. He started at a disadvantage, I'm sure that has decreased to a large extent, but it isn't a foregone conclusion that he now has an advantage over another coach that has known some of these players for a decade or more. You may be correct, but it isn't as simple as pointing at a resume.

Hopefully we'll get good officiating the next time these two teams meet, and all we'll need to talk about is who coached the better game.

 

[OnMAA]

Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

Hopefully we'll get good officiating the next time these two teams meet, and all we'll need to talk about is who coached the better game.

Given the other thread, maybe we may not wanna talk about that either.

 

[ExHockeyguy]

Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

Quarterfinal matchups: Russia - Switzerland; Finland - Sweden. The Russia - Swiss game should be an entertaining one. I think the Swiss are better than they've appeared so far. Flo in goal will stand out. Russians have too much pressure on them (though not as bad as their male counterparts). Switzerland 4-1. It wasn't long ago that Finland - Sweden was a Bronze Medal Game. Now it's the quarterfinal thanks to Finland being in a tough bracket and Sweden being...well...underwhelming. I think Finns take a tough one, though; 3-2 as Sweden rises to the occassion for a while. Nonetheless sets up a good rematch with Canada in the semi-s. Raty can steal a game.

 

[Can_Hockey_Dad]

Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

I'm a person who follows a lot of hockey--had a chance to see many of these women play. What is with the US choice in D? Bozek is excellent. However, the players from Harvard (in particular) and a few others v. Canada had a difficult time when facing any type of speed. Definitely the US achilles heel, as their forwards are quite dominant.

 

[dave1381]

Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

I'm a person who follows a lot of hockey--had a chance to see many of these women play. What is with the US choice in D? Bozek is excellent. However, the players from Harvard (in particular) and a few others v. Canada had a difficult time when facing any type of speed. Definitely the US achilles heel, as their forwards are quite dominant.

Right, here was the D ice time:
Canada D (time) vs. US D (time)
WARD Catherine, 22:10 vs MARVIN Gigi, 22:59
LAROCQUE Jocelyne, 21:30 vs BOZEK Megan, 21:15
FORTINO Laura, 20:06 vs BELLAMY Kacey, 19:55
MIKKELSON Meaghan, 19:52 vs SCHLEPER Anne, 16:43
WATCHORN Tara, 16:51 vs PICARD Michelle, 14:03
ROUGEAU Lauriane, 15:03 vs PUCCI Josephine, 12:23
N/A vs STECKLEIN Lee, 12:21

When your 6th D is a Cornell All American, and your last cut was a 7th UNH All American D, that is a strength. This gap has been obvious for a while, all 4 college all american D in 2011 were Canadian. U.S. had fewer choices.

 

[OnMAA]

Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

Quarterfinal matchups: Russia - Switzerland; Finland - Sweden. The Russia - Swiss game should be an entertaining one. I think the Swiss are better than they've appeared so far. Flo in goal will stand out. Russians have too much pressure on them (though not as bad as their male counterparts). Switzerland 4-1. It wasn't long ago that Finland - Sweden was a Bronze Medal Game. Now it's the quarterfinal thanks to Finland being in a tough bracket and Sweden being...well...underwhelming. I think Finns take a tough one, though; 3-2 as Sweden rises to the occassion for a while. Nonetheless sets up a good rematch with Canada in the semi-s. Raty can steal a game.

The way the Brackets are setup, Finland would meet the US in the Semi. You are right in one observation. Raty can steal a game. She has done it.

 

[D2D]

Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

The way the Brackets are setup, Finland would meet the US in the Semi.

As they should be set up; with their win over the U.S. Canada earned the right to NOT play Finland in their semi.

 

[D2D]

Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

Definitely the US achilles heel, as their forwards are quite dominant.

While I agree that the U.S. defensemen need to play better, the forwards will also need to score more than the one goal, if they do make it to the Gold Medal game, which is by no means a sure thing.

 

[ExHockeyguy]

Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

The way the Brackets are setup, Finland would meet the US in the Semi. You are right in one observation. Raty can steal a game. She has done it.

Oops. My bad. Read the bracket wrong. But still, Raty is tough. Not an easy game by any measure. On the other side, though both teams are clearly not as deep or talented as Canada, I wonder what type of opposition Russia or Swiss can offer? Schelling was an excellent goalie in college...does she have one major upset in her? Either Swiss or Russia, probably would take a shutout to win.

 

[SeymoreHockey]

Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

For decades now, I've been saying that female refereeing needs to improve dramatically. The skill and speed of the women's game has long passed the quality of refereeing. Until such time as the female refereeing improves to match the quality of the game they are officiating, then experienced male referees should be employed in KEY GAMES such as Conference Finals/Final Four/Four Nations/World Championships/Olympics, etc. Female referees cannot keep up with the game they are officiating...it's that plain and simple. Sorry!

 

[dave1381]

Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

As others have said, 2 referees of either gender >>> 1 referee of either gender. That is definitely the best way to improve, both purely but also in avoiding the thorny gender equity issues if you were to try to reduce the # of female refs. But if you think 1 male > 2 females then I give up.

 

[Watson Rink]

Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

Re the 2 refs issue, has anybody on this thread been a ref or a linesman? and if so, can you answer the following question: if you are to be the sole ref, please list those lower-priority things that at least one ref would be paying attention to in a 2-ref system that you, as a single ref, would just not be able to focus on very well.

The follow-up question is how does that list change if the single ref isn't enough of a super-skater to cover the rink goalline to goalline and is often trailing the play.

The final question is whether the game is, on balance, better or worse for having a second ref in terms of a variety of things such as flow of play, keeping tempers in check, consistency of calls, etc. etc. For example, if Team Canada's game plan involves a lot of physical contact, would having a second ref necessarily thwart that strategy or would it allow the same amount of contact so long as it was legal contact?