2014 Four Nations Cup

[brookyone]

Re: 2014 Four Nations Cup

I actually like 4 on 4. Far more likely to create goals because of the extra space, which magnifies impact of mistakes. I wish they'd keep playing 4 on 4 until someone scores rather than go to dreaded shoot outs.

At least 4 on 4 is still hockey, and a team game rather than an individual skills competition. The NHL uses 4 on 4 for overtime periods although they then go to SO.

If you kept playing 5 on 5, the game could go on virtually forever.
In Ontario, they keep playing 5 on 5 for the provincial championships at every level until someone wins. I've seen teams go 11 periods until kids basically could no longer skate and move in slow motion. 4 on 4 would likely keep games a more manageable length. Anything --even 3 on 3--is far better than a shoot out in my books

Ditto.

 

[monsoonweather]

Re: 2014 Four Nations Cup

TSN put together a feature on the screwups of #7?

Yes, and they did this in the first Canada game too.

I've always found Cassie Campbell's insipid, sanitized and overly fawning comments on women's hockey and Hockey Canada truly cringeworthy and often very uninformed. But then again, she's married to a Hockey Canada exec so go figure.

Jennifer Botterill should do all color commentary IMO. She always sounds outstanding and unlike Cassie Campbell-Pascal has good technical knowledge of the game. Cheryl Pounder is a little too 8th grade teacher-like for me but at least she is articulate. I watched the NBCSN stream of AJ Mleczko doing color on the CAN-USA exhibition games last year and she puts Cassie to shame! Very articulate and tons of insight. And her voice is so much easier to listen to than both Pounder and Cassie Can we permanently retire Wickenheiser from playing and let her replace Cassie? Wickenheiser is at least coherent and then we wouldn't have to worry about her injuries. I never liked Tessa Bonhomme as a D (thought she was awful at 2013 Worlds) but she is very good in front of the camera.

No one is worse than Cassie Campbell. So political and uninformed. "That goal was denied...because the goalie just made a save...with his glove!! A glove save!... and because of that, the score remains unchanged!" Biggest question is, how can she be just as bad calling the women's game as she is on HNIC?!! Her "old girls club" bias ruins it for me every time. There was one time Gillian Apps laid out a dirty elbow to an opponent that Cassie made nothing of, I think she even blamed the other player for not keeping her head up . But when a rookie does something like that she calls it "vicious" . You will never hear Jen Botterill talking like that. Even Tessa Bonhomme was critical of Hefford's effort in the Sochi CAN-SWI semifinals. CBC has been going to pot these last few years. Because of dear Cassie's husband I will not be surprised if eventually she finds herself a role with the Flames in some capacity. Eys.

My nightmare is Mel Davidson hiring Danielle Goyette for 2018 head coach and the consequent resurgence of the Old Girls Club. Well, I guess it doesn't matter who the new/old head coach will be. One "wrong" roster decision and he's gone When Canada was down 2-0 with 4 minutes left in Sochi I was cheering for USA because I hoped for Davidson to get a taste of her own medicine. If Apps, Wick & Co. play in 2018 I will do the same The only exception is Agosta because she can actually skate and move the puck around well not to mention one of the only natural goal scorers on the team. Basically, she's not a cog in the wheel of the team. I feel for promising players like Bach and Potomak if Apps & Co. decide to play til they're 60. And if Birchard gets cut AGAIN...

I also noticed key US ladies (Knight, Stack in Sochi) target Larocque because they know how much of a turnover machine she can be.

Lamoureux in the final game was both bad and good . Who knew taking a penalty would deny a goal from the other team She blocked some hard shots in the PK though.

 

[Trillium]

Yes, and they did this in the first Canada game too.



Jennifer Botterill should do all color commentary IMO. She always sounds outstanding and unlike Cassie Campbell-Pascal has good technical knowledge of the game. Cheryl Pounder is a little too 8th grade teacher-like for me but at least she is articulate. I watched the NBCSN stream of AJ Mleczko doing color on the CAN-USA exhibition games last year and she puts Cassie to shame! Very articulate and tons of insight. And her voice is so much easier to listen to than both Pounder and Cassie Can we permanently retire Wickenheiser from playing and let her replace Cassie? Wickenheiser is at least coherent and then we wouldn't have to worry about her injuries. I never liked Tessa Bonhomme as a D (thought she was awful at 2013 Worlds) but she is very good in front of the camera.

No one is worse than Cassie Campbell. So political and uninformed. How can be just as bad calling the women's game as she is on HNIC?!! Her "old girls club" bias ruins it for me every time. There was one time Gillian Apps laid out a dirty elbow to an opponent that Cassie made nothing of, I think she even blamed the other player for not keeping her head up . But when a rookie does something like that she calls it "vicious" . You will never hear Jen Botterill talking like that. Even Tessa Bonhomme was critical of Hefford's effort in the Sochi CAN-SWI semifinals. CBC has been going to pot these last few years. Because of dear Cassie's husband I will not be surprised if eventually she finds herself a role with the Flames in some capacity. Eys.

My nightmare is Mel Davidson hiring Danielle Goyette for 2018 head coach and the consequent resurgence of the Old Girls Club. Well, I guess it doesn't matter who the new/old head coach will be. One "wrong" roster decision and he's gone When Canada was down 2-0 with 4 minutes left in Sochi I was cheering for USA because I hoped for Davidson to get a taste of her own medicine. If Apps, Wick & Co. play in 2018 I will do the same The only exception is Agosta because she can actually skate and move the puck around well not to mention one of the only natural goal scorers on the team.

I also noticed key US ladies (Knight, Stack in Sochi) target Larocque because they know how much of a turnover machine she can be.

Lamoureux in the final game was both bad and good . Who knew taking a penalty would deny a goal from the other team She blocked some hard shots in the PK though.

Agree with most of your comments although I did listen to Mleczko one game in Sochi and thought she was really awful too.

No need to worry about Apps Wick and Co next go round. Word is they've been instructed to retire. There's 3 more years to identify and train the better players to replace them.

IMO Birchard, Ambrose, Krzyzaniak, Rattray, Saulnier and Kohanchuk in particular made good strides in this series in proving themselves worth a look

 

[ne7minder]

Re: 2014 Four Nations Cup

TSN put together a feature on the screwups of #7? Isn't that a really unusual thing to do to somebody?

As ARM noted, its common in pro sports. I think at this level a player has to be responsible for their play. Had she made a bunch of great plays & TSN clipped them she would be pleased. But she laid egg after egg, it was painful to watch at times, as an American fan. I am sure the Canadians watching were having a rollicking time, I know as a Gopher fan I had the chance to see those same blunders work in our favor.

If TSN just picked on her it would be one thing but her play was so obviously flawed, if anything they were kind in not showing all the plays they could have. It was fair. These are adults playing at a very high level & should be prepared for both praise & scorn based on their performance.

 

[DC78-82]

Re: 2014 Four Nations Cup

If she was not even good at the position against better-than-average NCAA teams, how is she even a consideration for a national team??? Surely USA is not nearly that devoid of talent that they couldn't have found a much better option on the roster....Bender? Ramsay? McMillen? Boulier? etc. etc.

And Megan Bozek was a healthy scratch for the first two games of the series. She, in my opinion, is a difference maker at D, both offensively and defensively.

 

[DC78-82]

Re: 2014 Four Nations Cup

Ditto.

Double ditto.

 

[NMH]

Re: 2014 Four Nations Cup

Yeah, I hated Mleczko during Sochi. It always felt like she had gotten a directive to simpifly or explain everything and it felt like she just couldn't find the balance of not being too technical for a new audience and not being too kindergarten teacher for those of us that didn't need it. She also made some false blanket statements about the USA/Canada rivalry - she was trying to create narrative and storylines and drum up interest and I think it was coming from a good place in terms of trying to draw people in to women's hockey, but that rivalry is so good on it's own, it doesn't need embellishment. She was just trying SO HARD and it came off poorly, IMO. She seemed to be trying to play a role instead of just being herself and that's where it went wrong.

 

[driventoit]

Re: 2014 Four Nations Cup

Double ditto.

OK, OK, you guys win the shootdown, 3-0.

 

[Trillium]

Re: 2014 Four Nations Cup

And Megan Bozek was a healthy scratch for the first two games of the series. She, in my opinion, is a difference maker at D, both offensively and defensively.

I also just noticed Gagliardi only played 1 game of 4. I've always been a fan of hers.

 

[ARM]

Re: 2014 Four Nations Cup

OK, OK, you guys win the shootdown, 3-0.

I agree with you in any tournament that means something like the Olympics, Worlds, NCAA, or conference tournaments. If it is worth all of the time and trouble to organize the tournament, then it is worth deciding by playing bonafide hockey. To Trillium's point about players getting too tired after many OTs, then they had better get about the business of trying to win before reaching that point, instead of sitting back and trying not to lose. If 4-on-4 is so great, then why wouldn't they use it for the Stanley Cup? Or even all of the time. Why have those fifth skaters out there preventing offense from the drop of the puck in the first period? Teams practice and develop systems five on five. They spend time on their PP and PK for five on four. Few teams have time to spend much time working four on four, or four on three, which I fear would decide far too many sudden death four-on-four OTs.

I like five-on-five hockey and don't believe that it is broken.

 

[wwhyte]

Re: 2014 Four Nations Cup

Agree with most of your comments although I did listen to Mleczko one game in Sochi and thought she was really awful too.

I like listening to Mleczko. Her very D-centric view is interesting, especially on games with a lot of flashy forwards.

 

[driventoit]

Re: 2014 Four Nations Cup

OK, OK, you guys win the shootdown, 3-0.

Correction: I now win, 1-3!

 

[Trillium]

Re: 2014 Four Nations Cup

Correction: I now win, 1-3!

Clearly math is not your strong suit either.

 

[ne7minder]

Re: 2014 Four Nations Cup

I also just noticed Gagliardi only played 1 game of 4. I've always been a fan of hers.

Not sure what the coach was thinking. In my, really not qualified to have an opinion, opinion either would have been a better choice. Unless you wanted the one area she excels over either, goonball hockey. The Canadians are very skilled at pulling crap on the ice & TSN was kind enough to show replays of several great examples there were not called. Maybe they wanted someone on the team that could keep up on that score, I don't know. I don't think thats the way to compete but again I am not a coach maybe they felt it was important.

 

[ne7minder]

Re: 2014 Four Nations Cup

I agree with you in any tournament that means something like the Olympics, Worlds, NCAA, or conference tournaments. If it is worth all of the time and trouble to organize the tournament, then it is worth deciding by playing bonafide hockey. To Trillium's point about players getting too tired after many OTs, then they had better get about the business of trying to win before reaching that point, instead of sitting back and trying not to lose. If 4-on-4 is so great, then why wouldn't they use it for the Stanley Cup? Or even all of the time. Why have those fifth skaters out there preventing offense from the drop of the puck in the first period? Teams practice and develop systems five on five. They spend time on their PP and PK for five on four. Few teams have time to spend much time working four on four, or four on three, which I fear would decide far too many sudden death four-on-four OTs.

I like five-on-five hockey and don't believe that it is broken.

Agreed 100%. If it comes down to two tired teams than conditioning is just that important. I might agree for a quarter or semi-final match simply because it levels the field a little but that would be about it. I am sure both ND and MN were dead tired near the end of 3 OTs a couple years back but nobody can complain they didn't get a fair deal. The game was determined by players playing the game & not by a couple of people tinkering around with a tiny part of the game.

 

[KTDC]

Re: 2014 Four Nations Cup

I agree with you in any tournament that means something like the Olympics, Worlds, NCAA, or conference tournaments. If it is worth all of the time and trouble to organize the tournament, then it is worth deciding by playing bonafide hockey. To Trillium's point about players getting too tired after many OTs, then they had better get about the business of trying to win before reaching that point, instead of sitting back and trying not to lose. If 4-on-4 is so great, then why wouldn't they use it for the Stanley Cup? Or even all of the time. Why have those fifth skaters out there preventing offense from the drop of the puck in the first period? Teams practice and develop systems five on five. They spend time on their PP and PK for five on four. Few teams have time to spend much time working four on four, or four on three, which I fear would decide far too many sudden death four-on-four OTs.

I like five-on-five hockey and don't believe that it is broken.

I also agree 100%

Or to paraphrase ARM: 'Teams practice and develop systems five on five."

 

[pokechecker]

Re: 2014 Four Nations Cup

the easy way to look at what to do in overtime is to compare the 2010 Olympic men's final against this years 4N Cup

40 years from now people will still be arguing that the 2010 final was the greatest game they ever saw.
it is doubtful anybody will remember or care what happened in the 2014 final of the 4N Cup even 5 years from now

a shootout is not hockey, if the 2010 final had been a shootout with the same result, it would make nobody's greatest game ever list except maybe the player who scored the winning goal

 

[Ted Knight]

Re: 2014 Four Nations Cup

the easy way to look at what to do in overtime is to compare the 2010 Olympic men's final against this years 4N Cup

40 years from now people will still be arguing that the 2010 final was the greatest game they ever saw.
it is doubtful anybody will remember or care what happened in the 2014 final of the 4N Cup even 5 years from now

a shootout is not hockey, if the 2010 final had been a shootout with the same result, it would make nobody's greatest game ever list except maybe the player who scored the winning goal

A lot more people remember TJ Oshie than the OT in 2010...because of a shootout.

 

[TonyTheTiger20]

A lot more people remember TJ Oshie than the OT in 2010...because of a shootout.

Well, yeah, that made it an amazing shootout, not an amazing game. Home Run Derbys can be fun too.

 

[pokechecker]

Re: 2014 Four Nations Cup

A lot more people remember TJ Oshie than the OT in 2010...because of a shootout.

yeah, right, maybe all the people with alcohol poisoning of the brain that can't remember back that far