2013, '14, '15 Frozen Four Sites

[CHFAN222]

Re: 2013, '14, '15 Frozen Four Sites

I certainly wouldn't argue with a Toronto or Montreal (or Vancouver or Quebec - two other great cities) FF, but the recent passport requirement may make this a non starter. For one, the added expense of $100 per person to get there may cause some people to not go, and also, there are several folks who decide on about a weeks notice - once their team wins the regional (how many Bemidji State fans, out of the 500 that showed up in DC, do you think had advance tickets? How 'bout Vermont or Miami? None of those three schools really had any expectation of making the FF) who won't be able to go since they didn't have a passport, and didn't have time to get one... Personally, I'd have been p!$$ed if BSU made the FF last year, and it was in Toronto, and I couldn't go because I needed a passport and I only had a week to get one, and couldn't.

Most people I know now have passports. Since 9/11 you need to show proof of US citizenship to get a license and a passport is usually what me and most of my friends use. It also is good form of ID to use for jobs.

Fans of BSU and Vermont and even Miami are from border states and are likely to have passports since they have the opportunity to and probably do travel across the border frequently.

 

[cetihcra]

Re: 2013, '14, '15 Frozen Four Sites

One thing that i always ask myself when thinking about "where do i want to go watch the F4?" is "will it be an EVENT for the city?." Our sport being what it is, getting lost in the mix is a distinct possibility, unlike our squeakball brethren. Cities like NYC, Chicago, LA, and even to an extent, Boston are just too big, and make the F4 seem very small. They are all fun places, but I want a place that will celebrate college hockey, and embrace the tournament as THE thing to do that one weekend in April, and really work hard to create an EVENT.

With that: St. Paul, Denver, Detroit, Buffalo, Pittsburgh, St. Louis, and Boston* are the best places in the hockey-belt. All mid-sized, embrace the game, it's an event.

*Boston is on the brink of being too large -- without a boston team in the mix, it seems to get a little lost in the early-season Sox hoopla and near-playoff celts fiasco. Never really had to worry about the B's playoff aspirations in the past


So ask yourself, "would it be an EVENT?" Would the city and its citizens embrace it? Would it get lost in the shuffle?

r

 

[moose97]

Re: 2013, '14, '15 Frozen Four Sites

Most people I know now have passports. Since 9/11 you need to show proof of US citizenship to get a license and a passport is usually what me and most of my friends use. It also is good form of ID to use for jobs.

Fans of BSU and Vermont and even Miami are from border states and are likely to have passports since they have the opportunity to and probably do travel across the border frequently.

As of April 2007, 74 million Americans had passports. That's 24% of the current population (307.4 million).

Sorry to burst your bubble, but not a lot of people I know (in Bemidji - a couple hours from Canada) have passports. And, more importaintly, why cut off 76% of the country (233.4 million people) from attending your event? Or, at least threaten to force them to spend more than they have to? I just don't see it as worthwhile...

 

[cetihcra]

Re: 2013, '14, '15 Frozen Four Sites

Addendum to my last post:

NYC, Chicago, etc....would be fun as he\_\_, and i'd be happy to attend...i just always ask that question.

r

 

[blockski]

Re: 2013, '14, '15 Frozen Four Sites

One thing that i always ask myself when thinking about "where do i want to go watch the F4?" is "will it be an EVENT for the city?." Our sport being what it is, getting lost in the mix is a distinct possibility, unlike our squeakball brethren. Cities like NYC, Chicago, LA, and even to an extent, Boston are just too big, and make the F4 seem very small. They are all fun places, but I want a place that will celebrate college hockey, and embrace the tournament as THE thing to do that one weekend in April, and really work hard to create an EVENT.

With that: St. Paul, Denver, Detroit, Buffalo, Pittsburgh, St. Louis, and Boston* are the best places in the hockey-belt. All mid-sized, embrace the game, it's an event.

*Boston is on the brink of being too large -- without a boston team in the mix, it seems to get a little lost in the early-season Sox hoopla and near-playoff celts fiasco. Never really had to worry about the B's playoff aspirations in the past


So ask yourself, "would it be an EVENT?" Would the city and its citizens embrace it? Would it get lost in the shuffle?

r

I don't think this matters one bit.

Take DC. I think they did a great job hosting, but you're never going to be top dog in a place like DC.

If you want to meet the requirements you've laid out, you've pretty much relegated the FF to lesser locations and arenas, IMO. It's not due to the effort of the hosts, either - but the exact same promotions in DC just won't go as far as they will in, say, St. Paul.

As of April 2007, 74 million Americans had passports. That's 24% of the current population (307.4 million).

Sorry to burst your bubble, but not a lot of people I know (in Bemidji - a couple hours from Canada) have passports. And, more importaintly, why cut off 76% of the country (233.4 million people) from attending your event? Or, at least threaten to force them to spend more than they have to? I just don't see it as worthwhile...

Well, a FF in Toronto won't happen for many reasons, but if it's a good enough reason to encourage more US Citizens to get passports, that's a good thing. That rate is pathetically low.

 

[Beantown6]

Re: 2013, '14, '15 Frozen Four Sites

Well, a FF in Toronto won't happen for many reasons

If true, that's one good reason that Montreal would jump all over the event.

 

[pgb-ohio]

Re: 2013, '14, '15 Frozen Four Sites

I reserve the right to change my mind, but here are some first thoughts:

1. A significant percentage of FF attendees drive rather than fly. Pittsburgh and Buffalo are well positioned for this purpose. I'd give the nod to the new arena in Pittsburgh as opposed to returning to HSBC.

2. DC functioned extremely well as a truly neutral site. The tourist value is obvious. For these reasons, maybe we should be a little flexible on the waiting period. Besides, if we're talking about 2015, you'd have a six year gap. That's certainly not unprecedented.

3. Boston is a no-brainer, if the right deal can be cut. I'm not going to itemize the past issues here; let's just say that this is a decidedly open question.

4. Chicago would be great, but we're lacking a host school and an application. Paging Notre Dame, Paging Notre Dame, please report for duty... Or maybe the CCHA could take this on. Gotta admit, those extra 3,000 seats at United Center would sure come in handy -- especially for those who have been having poor luck in the General Lottery. One wrinkle: If by some miracle Chicago lands the 2016 Summer Olympics, then 2016 would be a poor choice for a Chicago FF. We'd be reduced to an afterthought. That might be one reason to give Chicago some priority in the current round of selections.

5. Sunbelt sites? I'll grant that our tournament has come a long way in the last 10 years. But Anaheim drew mixed reviews at best. Let's see how Tampa goes before we commit to another sunbelt site.

6. North of the border? Great point by Moose97 on the passports. I'm also a little concerned that many of the locals attending would treat the event as a novelty rather than as some of the most important games of the year. That's fine for a second tier bowl game. But it's not ideal for settling a championship.

7. Denver? Selfishly I'd like to go back sooner rather than later. But I tend to think that the "normal" waiting period applies in the case, whatever that has come mean.

My Bottom Line? Boston, DC & Pittsburgh -- with Chicago or Denver waiting in the wings if Boston fumbles. I don't have strong views about the particular years, except that DC should wait until 2015.

 

[dggoddard]

Re: 2013, '14, '15 Frozen Four Sites

Now that you mention it, I'm not sure the NCAA guarantee that all the players could get Passports in time.

That being said, I've had friends go to the F1 race in Montreal and the stories are pretty awesome.

 

[jmh]

Re: 2013, '14, '15 Frozen Four Sites

Point is, however, the NCAA has clearly "moved on" from cute venues and downtowns like Omaha and Albany (and Providence) since the last round of FF's were announced, and is more interested in making money (since, you know, they actually can with this tourney). Also consider that the Xcel in St. Paul will be used as a Regional site this year... I think that says a lot about the direction of the FF and the Nat'l tourney. In other words, thanks for asking Omaha, but, until you build a 20,000 seat rink (nd double your population), just enjoy that nice little baseball tourney you've got every spring. JMHO.

I don't think the use of the X as a regional site says anything about the direction the FF is heading. (I mean, the FF is at the X in 2011, after all.) I think it just says that UMN wanted to host a regional and can't do it at Mariucci anymore. (That's the rule now, right?)

Philly would be nice...Raleigh is nothing special and is in the middle of nowhere.

Raleigh isn't any more in the middle of nowhere than St. Paul or St. Louis or Denver.

Now that you mention it, I'm not sure the NCAA guarantee that all the players could get Passports in time.

My hunch is that this wouldn't be too much of an issue for the players. First, a decent number of the players aren't from the USA and can be assumed to already have passports. Second, some of the players might have traveled out of the country for various other tournaments and thus would already have them. Third, coaches of competitive teams could certainly suggest to all the players that they should make sure they have them.

 

[Beantown6]

Re: 2013, '14, '15 Frozen Four Sites

Why aren't passports given out at birth?

 

[Beer Pong Horn]

Re: 2013, '14, '15 Frozen Four Sites

Raleigh isn't any more in the middle of nowhere than St. Paul or St. Louis or Denver.

My hunch is that this wouldn't be too much of an issue for the players. First, a decent number of the players aren't from the USA and can be assumed to already have passports. Second, some of the players might have traveled out of the country for various other tournaments and thus would already have them. Third, coaches of competitive teams could certainly suggest to all the players that they should make sure they have them.

The Research Triangle area is nice enough - I went to a convention in Raleigh last year. Definitely nice to have 70 degree weather in March. Not exactly hockey territory, but they managed to scrape together enough 'Canes fans for their run to the Cup... some from NC, some who came from the north as graduates of a hockey school and are there because of NCSU, UNC, Duke, etc.

You're probably right about passports - most of the players would have them. I still doubt the NCAA would go for a foreign tournament yet though, until they can make a statement about a major Canadian school joining the D-1 ranks. Maybe in the 2020s.

 

[Puck Swami]

Re: 2013, '14, '15 Frozen Four Sites

As a former resident of the city, the real value of a FF in Toronto is that it is the undisputed global capital of the sport of hockey. There is more hockey interest, hockey money and hockey media exposure possibilities there than any other city in the world. Everywhere you go in Toronto, hockey is dominant thing- your newspaper, your TV, your radio and the bartenders, barbers and office mates are all talking hockey.

If there are a few thousand Americans that won't get a passport to go there, you can be assured that those seats will be filled by someone else, either Americans with passports or curious Canadians.

The beer is better, too.

 

[uwbadgers14]

Re: 2013, '14, '15 Frozen Four Sites

http://www.collegehockeynews.com/news/2009/09/15_morecities.php

Of the mentioned "new" venues, I think Pittsburgh would be good. Kansas City and Omaha would be meh. I don't see how Denver can think they're "in the bid cycle" for 5-6 years post 2008 when both Boston and St. Paul are being asked to wait longer, and seeing how there are so many other viable options now than were there last time, let alone if Boston throws in a bid...

My 2 cents - You can cross off Washington (2009), Denver (2008), St. Louis (2007) - just too soon. Then, let's say Boston (2004) bids. They would easily get one of the three. That leaves Buffalo (2003) and the newbys - KC, Omaha and Pittsburgh. Clearly, only one of KC or O-town could be an option, and seeing as it only holds 16,600 for hockey, I don't see Omaha as a viable option. The Sprint Center in KC isn't much better - 17,000 for hockey. Personally, I think Pittsburgh, representing the "now" (Sidney Crosby) market for hockey (wth the current Stanley Cup and a new 18,000 seat rink opening in 2010) wins a FF, with Buffalo as the third.

Edit - I'd love to see Chicago put in a bid. Resurgent NHL market, 22,000 seat building, better area around the rink than 10 years ago (and a great city overall)...

Thoughts?

I have been to Omaha during the college world series and its a great town, not a huge hockey hot bed or anything but I think its a good location as far as in the middle of the US. I would def. attend a FF there over Ford Field.

Chicago needs to host a frozen four... that would probebly go down as one of the best FF in recent memory if it happened. Pittsburgh would be ok but nothing too great IMO

 

[uwbadgers14]

Re: 2013, '14, '15 Frozen Four Sites

I'll jump on the Boston-Chicago-Pittsburgh bandwagon. I think those would be the best three options.

I would also throw San Jose in there. They have a great fan base in the bay area and the arena and surrounding area's are great....

 

[realet]

Re: 2013, '14, '15 Frozen Four Sites

My blog entry from back in May:

http://blog.collegehockeynews.com/?p=326

 

[bigmrg74]

Re: 2013, '14, '15 Frozen Four Sites

The Research Triangle area is nice enough - I went to a convention in Raleigh last year. Definitely nice to have 70 degree weather in March. Not exactly hockey territory, but they managed to scrape together enough 'Canes fans for their run to the Cup... some from NC, some who came from the north as graduates of a hockey school and are there because of NCSU, UNC, Duke, etc.

You're probably right about passports - most of the players would have them. I still doubt the NCAA would go for a foreign tournament yet though, until they can make a statement about a major Canadian school joining the D-1 ranks. Maybe in the 2020s.

Yeah, with all of the major international tournements out there, I think you would be hard pressed to find a team out there where half of their current players don't currently hold a valid passport.

As a former resident of the city, the real value of a FF in Toronto is that it is the undisputed global capital of the sport of hockey. There is more hockey interest, hockey money and hockey media exposure possibilities there than any other city in the world. Everywhere you go in Toronto, hockey is dominant thing- your newspaper, your TV, your radio and the bartenders, barbers and office mates are all talking hockey.

If there are a few thousand Americans that won't get a passport to go there, you can be assured that those seats will be filled by someone else, either Americans with passports or curious Canadians.

The beer is better, too.

True, A FF in Toronto would make serious bank just from the locals showing up for Hockey. Personally, I doubt that the NCAA would want to put one there without a Toronto Area school joining the NCAA though. I still think that Vancouver would easily be in the mix there if UBC gets serious about joinining the NCAA in the near future. That would be a pretty awesome city to go to as well.

I almost wonder if the NCAA would like to test the waters a bit north of the border with a regional north of the border perhaps? Can't really think of a good sight in the western part of Canada for a regional, too hard to get too or too big perhaps, but there should be a great assortment of arena's that would be pretty good locations for a regional between Southern Onterio, Southern Quebec and the Maritimes. Get a league like Hockey East or the ECAC to back in perhaps, where their best team gets first dibs at going there.

 

[CHFAN222]

Re: 2013, '14, '15 Frozen Four Sites

If the NCAA wants to maximize profit while also keeping costs down they need to pick which city will give them the best deal. Chicago in terms of flights will give good deals the arena sits over 20K and it has a big hockey following. Indianapolis has hosted the final four and could potentially do a Frozen four with Notre dame leading the bid. Plus the hotels are cheaper in Indy than Chicago.

San Antonio is the most interesting. They have also hosted Final Four so they have a relationship with the NCAA. They flights and hotels are cheap in Texas as well.

 

[uwbadgers14]

Re: 2013, '14, '15 Frozen Four Sites

Yeah, with all of the major international tournements out there, I think you would be hard pressed to find a team out there where half of their current players don't currently hold a valid passport.

True, A FF in Toronto would make serious bank just from the locals showing up for Hockey. Personally, I doubt that the NCAA would want to put one there without a Toronto Area school joining the NCAA though. I still think that Vancouver would easily be in the mix there if UBC gets serious about joinining the NCAA in the near future. That would be a pretty awesome city to go to as well.

I almost wonder if the NCAA would like to test the waters a bit north of the border with a regional north of the border perhaps? Can't really think of a good sight in the western part of Canada for a regional, too hard to get too or too big perhaps, but there should be a great assortment of arena's that would be pretty good locations for a regional between Southern Onterio, Southern Quebec and the Maritimes. Get a league like Hockey East or the ECAC to back in perhaps, where their best team gets first dibs at going there.

I think a regional in Ontario would really be a good idea, there are a number of OHL arena's that seat around 10,000 or just under and would expose canadian kids to NCAA hockey, although i'm not sure how much the CHL would appreciate that. But you place the Midwest Regional just across the border in Windsor or London or even SArnia and it would be the most profitable regionals by far. Specially if there are some local kids playing in it that decided to go the NCAA route. I think it would be good for the NCAA to think outside the box like this but we all know that is not something the NCAA is very good at. just gotta look at NCAA football for your answer...

 

[moose97]

Re: 2013, '14, '15 Frozen Four Sites

Why aren't passports given out at birth?

You certainly could give them out at birth - adding a $100 government fee to the birth process, however, once children turn 10, what percentage of them would expire and not be renewed? 50% 75% Higher? You're still asking for $100 (repeted every ten years for the rest of their life) from every 10 year old in America for something that they may never use in their entire life! Now, it may make sense in Europe, where countries are the size of states (and sometimes smaller), but in this country, you can, in some cases, travel thousands of miles and never need a passport. What's the motivation to get one if you don't need it?

Indianapolis has hosted the final four and could potentially do a Frozen four with Notre dame leading the bid. Plus the hotels are cheaper in Indy than Chicago.

San Antonio is the most interesting. They have also hosted Final Four so they have a relationship with the NCAA. They flights and hotels are cheap in Texas as well.

Conseco Fieldhouse holds 14,400 for hockey, and the AT&T Center holds 13,400 - neither are gonna happen...

 

[UHall6]

Re: 2013, '14, '15 Frozen Four Sites

With respect to a regional or FF being held in Canada, from the US State Department website:

Anyone with a criminal record (including misdemeanors or Driving While Impaired (DWI) charges) may be barred from entering Canada and must obtain a special waiver well in advance of any planned travel.

I don't think the NCAA would want to take a chance a player could get barred from traveling with his team. Or they could try to clear every player in the NCAA months ahead of the tournament.