2013, '14, '15 Frozen Four Sites

[Larch]

Re: 2013, '14, '15 Frozen Four Sites

NOW you're talkin.

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As an aside, Boston would be good to get back in the rotation, but only on the condition that they meet the NCAA's requirements. Other NHL arenas don't seem to have this problem, and they've done a much better job at hosting the event than Boston has.

Boston isn't owed anything.

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I'd also like to see a NYC area bid - either for Newark or MSG. Newark, I think, would be just fine. Nice new building there, quick train ride to the city.

I too would like to see Boston get it again, but they need to not have an attitude that they automatically deserve it. That said, I'm all for Pittsburgh getting another and K.C. with the other, unless Chicago bids.

I'm also for Omaha getting it once, but I don't think I'd want them on a regular basis. They may be better off coming with a great package like Tampa did for '16.

I too think it's too early for Denver if there are other qualified bidders.

 

[jen]

Re: 2013, '14, '15 Frozen Four Sites

Denver was pretty awesome, I'd be happy to go back. Chicago has the advantage of being pretty close to the geographical center of the part of the country that has NCAA hockey (except for the Alaska schools, anyway), plus novelty, which is also a factor in Pittsburgh's favor. Boston has obvious factors in its favor. I have to figure it'll be three of these four.

Oops, looks like Chicago isn't actually bidding, it was just an idea (a good one, I think) floated upthread. Some order of Pittsburgh, Boston, Denver, maybe? I don't know about anyone else, but I don't really have any interest in going back to Missouri. Same goes for Omaha, except without the word "back".

Omaha actually would not be a bad site, IMO. Cute little downtown, nice arena close to stuff, including hotels. It'd be better than Albany was, anyway.

I vote for Buffalo and Pittsburgh. And Buffalo again, because Buffalo was an awesome time.

KC may not be bad, but I have no idea where the hockey arena is there in relation to anything else. I'd like to visit the Negro Leagues Museum, but that's really the only reason I have to go back. Since the Frozen Four site choice is all about making me happy, the committee should strongly consider this.

 

[CHFAN222]

Re: 2013, '14, '15 Frozen Four Sites

NYC at either MSG or Prudential center would be good fit and maybe encourage some teams in NJ/Long Island to add a team who knows though since Navy hosted and has still yet to add a team.

Phili wouldn't be a bad choice either they have a nice size arena.

Chicago I believe has the biggest NHL arena so it would be good for getting a large crowd in.

Salt lake City wouldn't be bad but the arena is a little small and only able to hold 14K for hockey according to wiki.

Dallas/OKC both have large arenas and could be used as a way to encourage a Big 12 team to add a team.

 

[slurpees]

Re: 2013, '14, '15 Frozen Four Sites

I'd also like to see a NYC area bid - either for Newark or MSG. Newark, I think, would be just fine. Nice new building there, quick train ride to the city.

Newark is a total craphole. Sure the arena may be great, but if you're going to have it in NYC, really have it in NYC at MSG. It's worked for regular season games, it'll work for the FF.

^^ I don't see why Salt Lake City would even be an option. Dallas is somewhat intriguing, though going to a hockey game in 90-100 degree weather would be somewhat confusing.

 

[MinnesotaNorthStar]

Re: 2013, '14, '15 Frozen Four Sites

Actually, I change my vote. It should be here every year for the rest of forever.

.

 

[CHFAN222]

Re: 2013, '14, '15 Frozen Four Sites

Newark is a total craphole. Sure the arena may be great, but if you're going to have it in NYC, really have it in NYC at MSG. It's worked for regular season games, it'll work for the FF.

^^ I don't see why Salt Lake City would even be an option. Dallas is somewhat intriguing, though going to a hockey game in 90-100 degree weather would be somewhat confusing.

Yet the Dallas Stars are one of the best attended and most profitable teams in the NHL.

 

[blockski]

Re: 2013, '14, '15 Frozen Four Sites

Newark is a total craphole. Sure the arena may be great, but if you're going to have it in NYC, really have it in NYC at MSG. It's worked for regular season games, it'll work for the FF.

^^ I don't see why Salt Lake City would even be an option. Dallas is somewhat intriguing, though going to a hockey game in 90-100 degree weather would be somewhat confusing.

SLC isn't an option, the arena has the same ice issues as New Orleans - it can make ice, but with lots of obstructed seats. It was made with hoops in mind first.

As for New York, the issue with MSG is that they're usually booked between the Rangers, Knicks, and the circus.

Plus, someone from MSG has to, you know, actually put in the bid. Newark would be far more likely, and would be just fine.

 

[du78]

Re: 2013, '14, '15 Frozen Four Sites

When the MSG renovation is finished in a few years, MSG has already made it known that it will be bidding for NCAA events in b-ball and hockey. The renovation is taking place in the offseason during the late spring and summers. I haven't seen the latest schedule on it but it was only going to take 2 to 3 years.

Edit: Here is the fact sheet on MSG renovation. It will be completely done for the 2012/13 season.

http://msg.com/media/content/renovation/renovation-fact-sheet-2009.doc

 

[SPIN CONTROL]

Re: 2013, '14, '15 Frozen Four Sites

Newark would be far more likely, and would be just fine.

Nothing about Newark is fine.

 

[slurpees]

Re: 2013, '14, '15 Frozen Four Sites

Nothing about Newark is fine.

exactly, outside of the venue it'd be a terrible FF.

 

[dggoddard]

Re: 2013, '14, '15 Frozen Four Sites

Newark is a total craphole. Sure the arena may be great, but if you're going to have it in NYC, really have it in NYC at MSG. It's worked for regular season games, it'll work for the FF.

Newark has great Portuguese restaurants/seafood, is 15 minutes by train or cab from NYC, has great airport access and is becoming trendy with artist types as the other NYC boroughs are becoming too pricey.

Most fans could party in the City and just train out to Newark for the games. Not much different than partying in Boston and catching the train to the Fleet Center.

 

[blockski]

Re: 2013, '14, '15 Frozen Four Sites

Jesus, are you people incapable of riding the train 15 minutes?

 

[jmh]

Re: 2013, '14, '15 Frozen Four Sites

Jesus, are you people incapable of riding the train 15 minutes?

I don't think it's too far to commute to, but then, I live here. For what it's worth, the PATH ride to Newark to go to the arena is a bit of a hassle for three reasons. First, the only line that goes directly to Newark is the WTC line, meaning if you're coming from further uptown in Manhattan, you have to transfer. Second, it's all the way out at the *** end of the PATH; it's actually a 22 minute ride from WTC to Newark, which isn't a ton, but it's 50% more than what you make it out to be. Third, if my recollection is correct from the last time I was out there, it's kind of an annoying walk from the PATH station to the Prudential Center, where they direct you through office buildings and stuff. I don't think it's likely that people would get lost or anything, but it's a pain in the ***.

The other problem with saying "it's a New York Frozen Four, but the games are hosted in Newark" is that people would be likely to stay in NYC, and pay NYC prices for lodging and food and entertainment (as dgoddard suggests), and in exchange my guess is that they'd probably want to have the games at MSG. If I were coming in from out of the area, that'd seem like a trade-off I'd want in exchange for my hotel dollars. (Staying at a hotel in, like, Wayne or Caldwell or Springfield and going to games in Newark would defeat the purpose of having the thing in the NYC area in the first place.)

And the problem with having it at MSG, as mentioned above, is that there's just not a whole lot of time or incentive for them to have it there. Here's a list of the events at MSG from March and April 2009, that I previously compiled for an eLynah post on this same subject:

3/18 Rangers
3/19 Fleetwood Mac
3/20 Knicks
3/21 Rangers
3/22 Rangers
3/23 Knicks
3/24 Rangers
3/25 Knicks
3/26 Circus
3/27 Circus, Knicks
3/28 Circus, Circus, Circus
3/29 Circus, Circus
3/30 Rangers
3/31 NIT Basketball
4/1 Circus
4/2 NIT Basketball
4/3 Circus, Circus
4/4 Knicks
4/5 Circus, Circus, Circus
4/6 Circus, Circus
4/7 Rangers
4/8 Knicks
4/9 Rangers
4/10 Circus, Circus, Circus
4/11 Circus, Circus, Circus
4/12 Circus, Circus, Circus
4/13 Circus, Circus
4/14 Dave Matthews Band
4/15 Knicks

Not a single open date for basically an entire month, which happens to be the month encompassing conference tournaments/regionals/the Frozen Four. There just isn't any incentive for MSG to want to rock the boat, since they're making a ton of money on the events they're already having and that don't require much, if any, added planning or promotion. Put that all together, and even after the renovation is done I don't see it being a realistic possibility.

 

[Puck Swami]

Re: 2013, '14, '15 Frozen Four Sites

NJ Transit and Amtrak trains also stop in downtown Newark, which is an easy walk to the Prudential Center.

Personally, I think there are a number of interesting places that would be be good to take the Frozen Four down the road: Philadelphia, Dallas, San Jose, Nashville, Toronto, Portland, and Seattle all have huge upsides in that these are markets familiar with hockey, but lack exposure to the NCAA product.

Having tourneys in places like St. Paul, Detroit and Boston is nice, but we are already preaching to the converted there.

 

[Sloe Gin]

Re: 2013, '14, '15 Frozen Four Sites

Salt lake City wouldn't be bad but the arena is a little small and only able to hold 14K for hockey according to wiki.

Dallas/OKC both have large arenas and could be used as a way to encourage a Big 12 team to add a team.

downside to Salt City though...college hockey fans drink. And spend money. That and Salt City do not exactly go hand in hand...

and as for Dallas/OKC, yes, you want exposure, but you also need to at least fill the stands. I don't see either city exactly pouring in the fans.

 

[mookie1995]

Re: 2013, '14, '15 Frozen Four Sites

Dal / KC / Pit / PHL / CHI = have baseball games to attend while in the city

Dal / KC / Omaha / CHI = almost 'western'

NO = don't really need to pump them up, it's New Orleans (and yes, they haven't bid - but I like this)

KC / Omaha = i've not been. excuse to go there.

Omaha / OKC =/= i've not been. really have no desire to.

--- being in MA, i have no desire for a boston F4. i want to GO somewhere and vacation. (selfish, sure.)

---i think NYC is a done deal. no way they bid and the ncaa turns them down. as soon as they are ready they can print the tickets and let us know when to show up.

 

[moose97]

Re: 2013, '14, '15 Frozen Four Sites

Omaha actually would not be a bad site, IMO. Cute little downtown, nice arena close to stuff, including hotels. It'd be better than Albany was, anyway.

Point is, however, the NCAA has clearly "moved on" from cute venues and downtowns like Omaha and Albany (and Providence) since the last round of FF's were announced, and is more interested in making money (since, you know, they actually can with this tourney). Also consider that the Xcel in St. Paul will be used as a Regional site this year... I think that says a lot about the direction of the FF and the Nat'l tourney. In other words, thanks for asking Omaha, but, until you build a 20,000 seat rink (nd double your population), just enjoy that nice little baseball tourney you've got every spring. JMHO.

 

[Carmine Scarpaglia]

Re: 2013, '14, '15 Frozen Four Sites

I have absolutely no problem with Denver getting in again on this round with say the 2015 bid. Amazing hosts. Amazing city. Can't say enough about how great it was.

Boston needs to get back in the mix, they really should have another one so I'd put them in for 2013 or 2014.

Pittsburgh... ehhh. Nothing really excites me about Pittsburgh although I will declare my own ignorance as I've never been. Buffalo? I wouldn't mind going back, I actually had a good time despite thinking Buffalo is a craphole (Niagara Falls and Toronto was cool). But really not too into it either way. St. Louis did a good job hosting but I think it might need to be moved into a new city. Kansas City is a cesspool. No way in HE double hockey sticks. Omaha? No way.

That leaves me with Chicago, which would be a ridiculous place to have the FF. I'd be completely excited for that. I could definitely deal with Philly landing a bid as well. And Dallas being thrown around sounds like a great idea and fits into a good fit for going out into a new area to promote the college game.

So for the next three I'd prefer
Chicago (Dallas a second choice here) 2013
Boston 2014
Denver 2015

That would be TIGHT!

 

[aallenpollreisz]

Re: 2013, '14, '15 Frozen Four Sites

It seats 18,000 for basketball. It seats 16,500 for arena football, which uses the same 200 x 85 surface that hockey does (and has a lot of obstructed views, I think).

Yeah, you won't see crap in any of the seats behind the endboards in that configuration.

 

[Buckeyefan2009]

Re: 2013, '14, '15 Frozen Four Sites

NYC at either MSG or Prudential center would be good fit and maybe encourage some teams in NJ/Long Island to add a team who knows though since Navy hosted and has still yet to add a team.

Phili wouldn't be a bad choice either they have a nice size arena.

Chicago I believe has the biggest NHL arena so it would be good for getting a large crowd in.

Salt lake City wouldn't be bad but the arena is a little small and only able to hold 14K for hockey according to wiki.

Dallas/OKC both have large arenas and could be used as a way to encourage a Big 12 team to add a team.

Frozen Four at MSG would be a great platform for college hockey.