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2012 Presidential Election 5: Election Day Countdown

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Re: 2012 Presidential Election 5: Election Day Countdown

The GOP needs to bust and Libertarians need to take over. There's a very strong message in fiscal responsibility and personal social responsibility there.

This is very true...it wont happen though because there is just too much money involved in the Moral Majority. You dont win if you dont spend and that is millions of dollars to be turning down because you dont preach right wing social values.

For a true Libertarian Party to come about there would need to be a lot of big money backers for it and a candidate that is electable and well known and respected by moderates on both sides.
 
This is very true...it wont happen though because there is just too much money involved in the Moral Majority. You dont win if you dont spend and that is millions of dollars to be turning down because you dont preach right wing social values.

For a true Libertarian Party to come about there would need to be a lot of big money backers for it and a candidate that is electable and well known and respected by moderates on both sides.

Libertarians are all kooks. They're just different kooks than Republicans but they're no less nuts. Its like turning the radio dial because they're playing Creed and being happy because you found Nickleback on the next station.
 
Re: 2012 Presidential Election 5: Election Day Countdown

Yeah, and he clearly wanted Romney to win yesterday.

Just trying to have it both ways. Yesterday, both of his ways lost.

He has said for weeks he was voting for Johnson. He is a conservative but not necessarily a GOPer. Seeing as RMoney was not a conservative and he dencounced him going way back I believe he didnt vote for the guy.

His "The End is Nigh" bit is funny, but it is still a bit. He would have had a similar one if Romney won because he thinks he is a facist too :D
 
Re: 2012 Presidential Election 5: Election Day Countdown

Libertarians are all kooks. They're just different kooks than Republicans but they're no less nuts. Its like turning the radio dial because they're playing Creed and being happy because you found Nickleback on the next station.

Right, we get it you think all conservatives are kooks. Meanwhile, in the real world...
 
Re: 2012 Presidential Election 5: Election Day Countdown

Where is Old Pio? We had a deal that he'd post a picture of the look on his face once the race got called for The O. ;)
 
Re: 2012 Presidential Election 5: Election Day Countdown

Nothing would make me happier than dropping all of the social conservative bull****. I hate it, it drags the whole party down and does absolutely no good whatsoever. I'm about as ****ed as I can be about this election, but don't mistake that for me being social conservative, I think they're one of the bigger parts of the problem.
 
Re: 2012 Presidential Election 5: Election Day Countdown

He has said for weeks he was voting for Johnson. He is a conservative but not necessarily a GOPer. Seeing as RMoney was not a conservative and he dencounced him going way back I believe he didnt vote for the guy.

His "The End is Nigh" bit is funny, but it is still a bit. He would have had a similar one if Romney won because he thinks he is a facist too :D


That may be, but only two candidates had a chance to win yesterday and he clearly wanted Romney of those two. To me, voting third party just looks like a way to avoid responsibility no matter the outcome.

He paints all of us (people who voted Obama) under the "libstain" banner. On this day, payback is a dog with a vagina.
 
Re: 2012 Presidential Election 5: Election Day Countdown

Great article:

How Conservative Media Lost to the MSM and Failed the Rank and File
By Conor Friedersdorf
Tweet Nov 7 2012, 6:30 AM ET Comment

Nate Silver was right. His ideological antagonists were wrong. And that's just the beginning of the right's self-created information disadvantage.


Reuters

Before rank-and-file conservatives ask, "What went wrong?", they should ask themselves a question every bit as important: "Why were we the last to realize that things were going wrong for us?"

Barack Obama just trounced a Republican opponent for the second time. But unlike four years ago, when most conservatives saw it coming, Tuesday's result was, for them, an unpleasant surprise. So many on the right had predicted a Mitt Romney victory, or even a blowout -- Dick Morris, George Will, and Michael Barone all predicted the GOP would break 300 electoral votes. Joe Scarborough scoffed at the notion that the election was anything other than a toss-up. Peggy Noonan insisted that those predicting an Obama victory were ignoring the world around them. Even Karl Rove, supposed political genius, missed the bulls-eye. These voices drove the coverage on Fox News, talk radio, the Drudge Report, and conservative blogs.

Those audiences were misinformed.

Outside the conservative media, the narrative was completely different. Its driving force was Nate Silver, whose performance forecasting Election '08 gave him credibility as he daily explained why his model showed that President Obama enjoyed a very good chance of being reelected. Other experts echoed his findings. Readers of The New York Times, The Atlantic, and other "mainstream media" sites besides knew the expert predictions, which have been largely born out. The conclusions of experts are not sacrosanct. But Silver's expertise was always a better bet than relying on ideological hacks like Morris or the anecdotal impressions of Noonan.


Sure, Silver could've wound up wrong. But people who rejected the possibility of his being right? They were operating at a self-imposed information disadvantage.

Conservatives should be familiar with its contours. For years, they've been arguing that liberal control of media and academia confers one advantage: Folks on the right can't help but be familiar with the thinking of liberals, whereas leftists can operate entirely within a liberal cocoon. This analysis was offered to explain why liberal ideas were growing weaker and would be defeated.

Today?

It is easy to close oneself off inside a conservative echo chamber. And right-leaning outlets like Fox News and Rush Limbaugh's show are far more intellectually closed than CNN or public radio. If you're a rank-and-file conservative, you're probably ready to acknowledge that ideologically friendly media didn't accurately inform you about Election 2012. Some pundits engaged in wishful thing; others feigned confidence in hopes that it would be a self-fulfilling prophecy; still others decided it was smart to keep telling right-leaning audiences what they wanted to hear.

But guess what?

You haven't just been misinformed about the horse race. Since the very beginning of the election cycle, conservative media has been failing you. With a few exceptions, they haven't tried to rigorously tell you the truth, or even to bring you intellectually honest opinion. What they've done instead helps to explain why the right failed to triumph in a very winnable election.

Why do you keep putting up with it?

Conservatives were at a disadvantage because Romney supporters like Jennifer Rubin and Hugh Hewitt saw it as their duty to spin constantly for their favored candidate rather than being frank about his strengths and weaknesses. What conservative Washington Post readers got, when they traded in Dave Weigel for Rubin, was a lot more hackery and a lot less informed about the presidential election.

Conservatives were at an information disadvantage because so many right-leaning outlets wasted time on stories the rest of America dismissed as nonsense. WorldNetDaily brought you birtherism. Forbes brought you Kenyan anti-colonialism. National Review obsessed about an imaginary rejection of American exceptionalism, misrepresenting an Obama quote in the process, and Andy McCarthy was interviewed widely about his theory that Obama, aka the Drone Warrior in Chief, allied himself with our Islamist enemies in a "Grand Jihad" against America. Seriously?

Conservatives were at a disadvantage because their information elites pandered in the most cynical, self-defeating ways, treating would-be candidates like Sarah Palin and Herman Cain as if they were plausible presidents rather than national jokes who'd lose worse than George McGovern.

How many months were wasted on them?

How many hours of Glenn Beck conspiracy theories did Fox News broadcast to its viewers? How many hours of transparently mindless Sean Hannity content is still broadcast daily? Why don't Americans trust Republicans on foreign policy as they once did? In part because conservatism hasn't grappled with the foreign-policy failures of George W. Bush. A conspiracy of silence surrounds the subject. Romney could neither run on the man's record nor repudiate it. The most damaging Romney gaffe of the campaign, where he talked about how the 47 percent of Americans who pay no income taxes are a lost cause for Republicans? Either he was unaware that many of those people are Republican voters, or was pandering to GOP donors who are misinformed. Either way, bad information within the conservative movement was to blame.

In conservative fantasy-land, Richard Nixon was a champion of ideological conservatism, tax cuts are the only way to raise revenue, adding neoconservatives to a foreign-policy team reassures American voters, Benghazi was a winning campaign issue, Clint Eastwood's convention speech was a brilliant triumph, and Obama's America is a place where black kids can beat up white kids with impunity. Most conservative pundits know better than this nonsense -- not that they speak up against it. They see criticizing their own side as a sign of disloyalty. I see a coalition that has lost all perspective, partly because there's no cost to broadcasting or publishing inane bull****. In fact, it's often very profitable. A lot of cynical people have gotten rich broadcasting and publishing red meat for movement conservative consumption.

On the biggest political story of the year, the conservative media just got its *** handed to it by the mainstream media. And movement conservatives, who believe the MSM is more biased and less rigorous than their alternatives, have no way to explain how their trusted outlets got it wrong, while the New York Times got it right. Hint: The Times hired the most rigorous forecaster it could find.

It ought to be an eye-opening moment.

But I expect that it'll be quickly forgotten, that none of the conservatives who touted a polling conspiracy will be discredited, and that the right will continue to operate at an information disadvantage. After all, it's not like they'll trust the analysis of a non-conservative like me more than the numerous fellow conservatives who constantly tell them things that turn out not to be true.
 
Re: 2012 Presidential Election 5: Election Day Countdown

Interesting fact: only one other incumbent has won a second election with a smaller electoral vote than he got in his first election. Every other re-elected incumbent went up in the electoral college vote, except for Woodrow Wilson and Barack Obama.

No big point here, other than that I found that interesting. We do need to avoid thinking that every trend is a mega-trend. Winning 2% more votes or fewer votes does not really point to a demographic sea change, or an emerging generation-long majority. This election was actually a lot like 2004: incumbent with weak economy uses his incumbency skillfully, denounces his opponent as an out-of-touch elitist, and turns out his base in numbers that surprised his opponent.

The other interesting fact is that we have had 4 straight elections where it turns out that candidates are really only fighting over 120 or so electoral votes--the other 400+ are pretty much spoken for, and are pretty much split 200-200 (give or take). In 2016, we might as well only vote in Ohio, Florida and Virginia, and whomever wins 2 of the 3 states is the winner. It would save a lot of money. I guess if it's really close, we throw in Colorado and Iowa and make it best 3 of 5.
 
Re: 2012 Presidential Election 5: Election Day Countdown

Bachmman, Perry, Ryan, Akin, Mourdoch, Cain, Gingrich, Ryan, McMahon, West, Angle, Walsh, DeMint, Norquist....I rest my case.

You do realize there is such a thing as a conservative that doesnt run as a GOPer correct?

You also realize could be a similar list of moonbat liberals right?

Are you this big a ****** to everyone or just people you never have to meet in person? I have thought for years you stink of internet tough guy :D
 
Re: 2012 Presidential Election 5: Election Day Countdown

This is very true...it wont happen though because there is just too much money involved in the Moral Majority. You dont win if you dont spend and that is millions of dollars to be turning down because you dont preach right wing social values.

For a true Libertarian Party to come about there would need to be a lot of big money backers for it and a candidate that is electable and well known and respected by moderates on both sides.

You don't think Wall Street investors would fund the Libertarians? Rick Santelli is practically a poster child!
 
Re: 2012 Presidential Election 5: Election Day Countdown

He has said for weeks he was voting for Johnson. He is a conservative but not necessarily a GOPer. Seeing as RMoney was not a conservative and he dencounced him going way back I believe he didnt vote for the guy.

His "The End is Nigh" bit is funny, but it is still a bit. He would have had a similar one if Romney won because he thinks he is a facist too :D

Actually, you can check the voting record. My vote DID go to Johnson.

I'm not saying you personally doubted me, but the devout preachers of Obamism think otherwise.
 
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Re: 2012 Presidential Election 5: Election Day Countdown

Libertarians are all kooks. They're just different kooks than Republicans but they're no less nuts. Its like turning the radio dial because they're playing Creed and being happy because you found Nickleback on the next station.

Pretty much. The lowest of many low points in the Republican primary debates were the people cheering when Ron Paul advocated people being left to die in the street. That's just not going to gain any serious traction, because frankly, we're better than that as a country.
 
You do realize there is such a thing as a conservative that doesnt run as a GOPer correct?

You also realize could be a similar list of moonbat liberals right?

Are you this big a ****** to everyone or just people you never have to meet in person? I have thought for years you stink of internet tough guy :D

Depends on whether or not they're buying me drinks! I'm a decent sized guy for the record although I won't be playing linebacker for the Pats anytime soon (secondary I think I have half a shot... ;)).
 
Re: 2012 Presidential Election 5: Election Day Countdown

Pretty much. The lowest of many low points in the Republican primary debates were the people cheering when Ron Paul advocated people being left to die in the street. That's just not going to gain any serious traction, because frankly, we're better than that as a country.

If you need help because something happened to you, people are there to help. If you made a stupid choice the first time and asked me, I'd be there to help, even if the only thing I could offer is constructive advice. The second time, I might help, but in a slightly ****y mood. The third time, you obviously haven't learned anything, and so you get nothing from me.
 
You do realize there is such a thing as a conservative that doesnt run as a GOPer correct?

You also realize could be a similar list of moonbat liberals right?

Are you this big a ****** to everyone or just people you never have to meet in person? I have thought for years you stink of internet tough guy :D

No, rover is an *******. He's just our ******* ;)
 
Re: 2012 Presidential Election 5: Election Day Countdown

Rover,

Seems fair :p

I think Flag wants a real Libertarian party...not Ron Paul's Party of Stupidity. You know all those moderate Republicans who have been primaried out by Tea Partiers...those people would form the party. that is what I want anyways...a fiscally conservative party that isnt going to just pay off its donors with massive tax cuts and leaves social issues alone.

As I said though it will never happen.
 
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