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2012 Presidential Election 5: Election Day Countdown

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Re: 2012 Presidential Election 5: Election Day Countdown

The candidates in their own words:

Candidate A: "Voting is the best revenge."

Candidate B: "Vote for love of country."


Pretend for a moment you don't know each candidate's identity. How do you react to these statements?




For me, I wonder "why is a candidate encouraging his supporters to seek "revenge" in the first place? On who? For what?
 
Re: 2012 Presidential Election 5: Election Day Countdown

FreshFish said:
The candidates in their own words:

Candidate A: "Voting is the best revenge."

Candidate B: "Vote for love of country."


Pretend for a moment you don't know each candidate's identity. How do you react to these statements?




For me, I wonder "why is a candidate encouraging his supporters to seek "revenge" in the first place? On who? For what?
Click to expand...

I pick C. ;) If it doesn't exist, I don't vote.
 
Re: 2012 Presidential Election 5: Election Day Countdown

Starting to hear commercials on how we need to limit the freedom to marry in Minnesota. Think of the children or so the claim goes. It sounds like we'll be joining Mass in the cesspool if this doesn't go through.

I think it was joecct that said that everytime someone says 'think about the children'...government is growing.
 
Re: 2012 Presidential Election 5: Election Day Countdown

Maybe we should call this one Schrodinger's election?

Each side seems quite confident in waking up Wednesday morning with favorable news.
 
Re: 2012 Presidential Election 5: Election Day Countdown

FreshFish said:
The candidates in their own words:

Candidate A: "Voting is the best revenge."

Candidate B: "Vote for love of country."


Pretend for a moment you don't know each candidate's identity. How do you react to these statements?




For me, I wonder "why is a candidate encouraging his supporters to seek "revenge" in the first place? On who? For what?
Click to expand...
Thankfully we are familiar with the candidates and most can easily interpret in context. Context...a wonderful thing...unless you're a whack job right wing nut hypnotized by his IliketolietoOhioansaboutDetroitautomanufactursness.
 
Re: 2012 Presidential Election 5: Election Day Countdown

bronconick said:
I'm not convinced our current science is advanced enough to convincingly tease out a man-made cause in climate change. We can observe climate change occurring, and we can observe man made changes on the environment but we can really plug that into the rest of the entire system and say "Yep, that's the cause?" It always gets explained to me as a simple correlation. "We pump out more CO2 because we're awful, and that makes everything hotter." The entire planet wide system seems more complicated than that.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the thing that the "let's ban engines" crowd never mentions is that the only constant is change. Just because the past century is the only time we have been able to somewhat accurately measure conditions, they all jump to the same assumption that the climate was forever and ever perfectly stable for all time before that. Not so. The truth is that change has always, and always will occur. There is no basis for saying that the past 100 year average of temps & rainfalls & etc. is the end-all and be-all of "natural conditions".
The entire human history of CO2 contributions put together represents a small fraction of one volcanic eruption that might happen now and then; not very relevant in the bigger picture of what's going on, nor is the bigger picture completely under our control, as much as we might wish it were.
 
Re: 2012 Presidential Election 5: Election Day Countdown

Bob Gray said:
That's true to some extent, but there are people around that aren't so shrill in their tone and can acknowledge that their side has issues and the other side isn't evil incarnate (Kepler, where are you these days?).
Click to expand...

Sure, but you are not one of them.
 
Re: 2012 Presidential Election 5: Election Day Countdown

Romney’s “relief” event outside of Dayton, Ohio, was surreal enough to be a campaign parody, with the candidate comparing the federal government’s hurricane relief efforts to the time he and some friends had to clean up a football field strewn with “rubbish and paper products.” It was supposed to be a parable of how Republicans handle disaster – with private charity, not government intervention – as Romney told his audience, “It’s part of the American spirit, the American way, to give to people in need.” The Republican went on to talk about the time some Hurricane Katrina survivors were rerouted from Houston to Cape Cod and the good people of Cape Cod responded by donating food and, yes, television sets.
Click to expand...

That's right - "rubbish and paper products" is similar to dead bodies, destroyed neighborhoods, complete disaster. I bet he didn't even wear gloves for the complete experience.
 
Re: 2012 Presidential Election 5: Election Day Countdown

bronconick said:
I'm not convinced our current science is advanced enough to convincingly tease out a man-made cause in climate change. We can observe climate change occurring, and we can observe man made changes on the environment but we can really plug that into the rest of the entire system and say "Yep, that's the cause?" It always gets explained to me as a simple correlation. "We pump out more CO2 because we're awful, and that makes everything hotter." The entire planet wide system seems more complicated than that.
Click to expand...

Well, as I said, maybe the cause is not totally decided certainly, but there is a larger and larger body of evidence that man is the problem. I mean when the snowcap is no longer on MT. Kilimanjaro after thousands of years, when the polar bears are having a ton of difficulty getting out onto the polar ice cap because it shrinks every year, when we have all of these issues, which for years and years we never had at this level, it certainly seems like we should look at our own self instead of doing nothing but hoping it will go away.
 
manurespreader said:
Well, as I said, maybe the cause is not totally decided certainly, but there is a larger and larger body of evidence that man is the problem. I mean when the snowcap is no longer on MT. Kilimanjaro after thousands of years, when the polar bears are having a ton of difficulty getting out onto the polar ice cap because it shrinks every year, when we have all of these issues, which for years and years we never had at this level, it certainly seems like we should look at our own self instead of doing nothing but hoping it will go away.
Click to expand...

arctic ice is shrinking antartica ice is growing

polar bear studies are incomplete. I'm grabbing from memory here - I think there are eight populations - two are growing, one is stable and the other five are unknown. but they look so cute, they make great press.

all the climate studies have proved so far is that we need to do more climate studies because we just dont know.

somehow I think humans are hard wired to anticipate calamity.

nuclear winter, global warming, population explosion, acid rain, silent spring, mayan calendar, ebola, ice age coming/going its always something.
 
Re: 2012 Presidential Election 5: Election Day Countdown

Also, how funny is it that I'm now seeing people wondering "where is Obama's college transcripts"? What's next, are people going to start questioning if the Obamas are legally married? "Where's the license, Your Livinginsin-ness?"
 
Re: 2012 Presidential Election 5: Election Day Countdown

manurespreader said:
Well, as I said, maybe the cause is not totally decided certainly, but there is a larger and larger body of evidence that man is the problem. I mean when the snowcap is no longer on MT. Kilimanjaro after thousands of years, when the polar bears are having a ton of difficulty getting out onto the polar ice cap because it shrinks every year, when we have all of these issues, which for years and years we never had at this level, it certainly seems like we should look at our own self instead of doing nothing but hoping it will go away.
Click to expand...

It might be useful to center the discussion around what policies we should pursue if we assume there is only a small chance that man is a large part of the problem. Aren't policies that seek to achieve higher gas mileage, preserve fossil fuels, increase development of renewable energy sources, continued vigilance in protecting natural areas from economic exploitation, etc. still wise, long-term? As others have stated, the body of evidence is hard to ignore now, but EVEN IF you ignore it, many of the same policies still seem to be beneficial in a general sense. Then, as with any benefit/detriment analysis, you factor in the benefits and risks associated with the particular issue. Nuclear power has its own set of factors, as does pipeline construction, cross continent hi voltage lines, site-specific drilling, gas mileage requirements, and on and on. Seems like if enough of us insist on steering the discussion to issue-specific policy considerations instead of the kind of dualistic, good guy/bad guy junior high pep rally we've become so used to and sick of we might get somewhere.

Naive, I know. Sigh. Pee Wee hockey is so much simpler.
 
Re: 2012 Presidential Election 5: Election Day Countdown

burd said:
Naive, I know. Sigh. Pee Wee hockey is so much simpler.
Click to expand...


You just exposed yourself as never having had anything at all to do with Pee Wee hockey.
 
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