2012 Minnesota Twins: 99 Problems...

[dxmnkd316]

Re: 2012 Minnesota Twins: 99 Problems...

The pitchers may be bad, but he is the one pounding away with this pitch to contact crap that does not work.
Anderson should be sent packing and until he is, this pitching staff will not improve even if we managed to lure good pitchers here, which we won't.

Tell me, do you really want Blackburn taking a strikeout approach?

 

[Deleted member 3166]

Tell me, do you really want Blackburn taking a strikeout approach?

I'd like Anderson to try something other than we want guys to hit the ball because when our pitchers miss, it gets hit all right, usually into the bleachers.
It's telling to me that we trade Liriano, and the White Sox coaches publically come out and say they can fix him, implying that we couldn't.
He may not have great pitchers to work with, but it's not like he's been capable of taking average guys and even making them good either.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: 2012 Minnesota Twins: 99 Problems...

I'd like Anderson to try something other than we want guys to hit the ball because when our pitchers miss, it gets hit all right, usually into the bleachers.
It's telling to me that we trade Liriano, and the White Sox coaches publically come out and say they can fix him, implying that we couldn't.
He may not have great pitchers to work with, but it's not like he's been capable of taking average guys and even making them good either.

You didn't answer my question.

Also, the Twins name Terry Ryan as their new GM.

 

[state of hockey]

Re: 2012 Minnesota Twins: 99 Problems...

I don't mind Andy. I think he gets more out of pitchers like Blackburn and such with that philosophy. He didn't seem to do it with Liriano (before Tommy john) and Santana. Get some good starters in the system and see what happens before writing him off.

 

[Deleted member 3166]

You didn't answer my question.

Also, the Twins name Terry Ryan as their new GM.

Yes I did.
Try something else is the answer.
IMO, the individual pitchers here do not matter, as long as pitch to contact Anderson is running the show, they will not win anything because every pitcher in the rotation must do it his way so bringing up what if's with individual pitchers is irrelevant.
I'd like to see what happens if a starter here was allowed to do something other than pitch to contact but since it won't happen, there is zero point in speculating about what Blackburn would do as a strikeout type.
Anderson will never let it happen.

 

[Dude Love]

Re: 2012 Minnesota Twins: 99 Problems...

I don't mind Andy. I think he gets more out of pitchers like Blackburn and such with that philosophy.

Pardon? He got MORE out of Blackburn? The guy who was rated one of the worst pitchers in all of baseball this year? I think that one year he was good was an aberration and the guy actually blows.

 

[state of hockey]

Pardon? He got MORE out of Blackburn? The guy who was rated one of the worst pitchers in all of baseball this year? I think that one year he was good was an aberration and the guy actually blows.

Hey, I am not an MLB pitching coach. But my point about true starters stands. What has he had to work with? If you think Blackburn will be a great starter trying to get a bunch of K's, great.

 

[Almington]

Re: 2012 Minnesota Twins: 99 Problems...

I'd like Anderson to try something other than we want guys to hit the ball because when our pitchers miss, it gets hit all right, usually into the bleachers.
It's telling to me that we trade Liriano, and the White Sox coaches publically come out and say they can fix him, implying that we couldn't.
He may not have great pitchers to work with, but it's not like he's been capable of taking average guys and even making them good either.

You can't take average guys and try and teach them to challenge hitters directly. They need to develop the control so that they can hit a spot and when the batter does make contact the ball stays in play. It's also better to have the ball enter play then to walk players because their is zero chance of getting a walked player out.

As for Liriano, the last thing that any team should publicly do is declare that a player is a lost cause. Regardless if the White Sox think they can fix Liriano, publicly stating they can't isn't going to help that effort. Given Liriano's struggles, improving his confidence is the first step in getting him back on track.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: 2012 Minnesota Twins: 99 Problems...

IMO, the individual pitchers here do not matter, as long as pitch to contact Anderson is running the show, they will not win anything because every pitcher in the rotation must do it his way so bringing up what if's with individual pitchers is irrelevant.
I'd like to see what happens if a starter here was allowed to do something other than pitch to contact but since it won't happen, there is zero point in speculating about what Blackburn would do as a strikeout type.
Anderson will never let it happen.

I could have sworn we had a pitcher like that in the past. Santa? Jorge? Anyways, it doesn't matter.

 

[Deleted member 3166]

You can't take average guys and try and teach them to challenge hitters directly. They need to develop the control so that they can hit a spot and when the batter does make contact the ball stays in play. It's also better to have the ball enter play then to walk players because their is zero chance of getting a walked player out.

As for Liriano, the last thing that any team should publicly do is declare that a player is a lost cause. Regardless if the White Sox think they can fix Liriano, publicly stating they can't isn't going to help that effort. Given Liriano's struggles, improving his confidence is the first step in getting him back on track.

That's the point though, Anderson hasn't been able to teach these guys control and they are so scared as a team to give up walks, that they miss in the zone and the ball gets belted 400 feet.
Walks aren't automatically runs, balls over the wall are.
I also don't think we are ever going to get good pitchers to come here while this insistance on pitch to contact is forced on every pitcher we have.
It may work for some guys but it shouldn't be force-fed to the entire staff as a blanket concept that must fit all pitchers wearing a Twins uniform.
And yeah Liriano may need confidence but when the White Sox coaches basically say publically that the Twins coaches can't do anything with a player, but they can, that's a pretty strong implication of what an opposing team thinks of Anderson's abilities as a coach.

 

[Deleted member 3166]

I could have sworn we had a pitcher like that in the past. Santa? Jorge? Anyways, it doesn't matter.

So one pitcher, five years ago proves your point huh?
Does he also need to win Cy Young's in order to be given that freedom?
If Santana is the only pitcher worthy of not following Anderson's pitch to contact gospel, that's even more proof he needs to go.

 

[Almington]

Re: 2012 Minnesota Twins: 99 Problems...

That's the point though, Anderson hasn't been able to teach these guys control and they are so scared as a team to give up walks, that they miss in the zone and the ball gets belted 400 feet.
Walks aren't automatically runs, balls over the wall are.
I also don't think we are ever going to get good pitchers to come here while this insistance on pitch to contact is forced on every pitcher we have.
It may work for some guys but it shouldn't be force-fed to the entire staff as a blanket concept that must fit all pitchers wearing a Twins uniform.
And yeah Liriano may need confidence but when the White Sox coaches basically say publically that the Twins coaches can't do anything with a player, but they can, that's a pretty strong implication of what an opposing team thinks of Anderson's abilities as a coach.

What pitchers in the twins lineup can go head-to-head with other teams lineups and over power their best hitters?

Pitch to contact isn't forced on every pitcher, it's about the fact that the Twins don't have pitchers who can overpower opposing lineups. It's not about forcing pitchers to change, it's about dealing with what you have.

The problem isn't walking players, it's that they walk players and then miss on a pitch and give up a 2 run homer instead. Control pitchers have little margin for error, the twins pitchers have been making to many errors, you ABSOLUTELY don't fix that problem by trying to teach players with a mid-80's fastball to challenge major league hitters. That's just a recipe for a complete disaster.

What is the White Sox staff is going to say, publicly, other than that they can fix Liriano? I'd expect nothing else from them, let's see if they can actually fix him it before we pass judgement. ANYONE can make a public claim, the trick is actually delivering the results.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: 2012 Minnesota Twins: 99 Problems...

That's the point though, Anderson hasn't been able to teach these guys control and they are so scared as a team to give up walks, that they miss in the zone and the ball gets belted 400 feet.
Walks aren't automatically runs, balls over the wall are.
I also don't think we are ever going to get good pitchers to come here while this insistance on pitch to contact is forced on every pitcher we have.
It may work for some guys but it shouldn't be force-fed to the entire staff as a blanket concept that must fit all pitchers wearing a Twins uniform.
And yeah Liriano may need confidence but when the White Sox coaches basically say publically that the Twins coaches can't do anything with a player, but they can, that's a pretty strong implication of what an opposing team thinks of Anderson's abilities as a coach.

Do you even know what you're talking about? Between 2002 and 2010, the Twins issued nearly a full BB/9 less than the average team. Considering the average BB/9 in this same period is an even 3.34, that's pretty effing fantastic control. During this same time, the Twins issued an average of 0.058 HR/9 higher than the league average of 1.04. So, 5% more HR/9 while issuing 25% less walks? Obviously that's not an ideal tradeoff, but it shows pretty **** good control.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: 2012 Minnesota Twins: 99 Problems...

So one pitcher, five years ago proves your point huh?
Does he also need to win Cy Young's in order to be given that freedom?
If Santana is the only pitcher worthy of not following Anderson's pitch to contact gospel, that's even more proof he needs to go.

So Rick Anderson picks his pitchers? Santana is the only pitcher we've had that has that type of power. We're talking about baseball here. You do realize that right? Do you know what a General Manager is?

 

[St. Clown]

Re: 2012 Minnesota Twins: 99 Problems...

So Rick Anderson picks his pitchers? Santana is the only pitcher we've had that has that type of power. We're talking about baseball here. You do realize that right? Do you know what a General Manager is?

A General manager manages the Generals who then go out and lose to the Globe Trotters.

Liriano used to pitch pretty darn well before TJ surgery. He and Santana, I remember the duo very well from back when I paid attention to the Twins. Liriano either can't throw what he had before or lost it mentally. If Rick Anderson can't fix the mental aspect, then the Twins would have addressed that if they had seen it. If Liriano simply doesn't have the ability to throw like he used to anymore, then the Chi Sox aren't going to proclaim that they made a bad move in getting him. They'll see what they can do with him over the course of the winter and next season, and then either point out Anderson's failings or toss Liriano and move on to their next pitching project.

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: 2012 Minnesota Twins: 99 Problems...

It would be interesting to compare pitching stats of pitchers with the Twins and with their other teams the past decade. I realize that in some cases age will make a difference and perhaps pitching the in NL, but not in every case.

 

[Deleted member 3166]

So Rick Anderson picks his pitchers? Santana is the only pitcher we've had that has that type of power. We're talking about baseball here. You do realize that right? Do you know what a General Manager is?

You don't have to be a power pitcher to be a strike out pitcher.
And I'm sorry, but it's an excuse to keep repeating "he's had nothing to work with" like he'd somehow do something with good pitchers if the front office would just give him some.
Give me a break.
He can't even coach the guys we have and make them any better, so if I'm a good pitcher, why would I want to come to a team where the pitching coach can't help me?
The front office isn't to blame for him being a lousy pitching coach.

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: 2012 Minnesota Twins: 99 Problems...

RA Dickey seems to be a pretty good pitcher, what did Anderson get out of him?

 

[DaveStPaul]

Re: 2012 Minnesota Twins: 99 Problems...

Interesting dealings going on. First Span, now Revere.

Anybody else?

 

[Deleted member 3166]

Re: 2012 Minnesota Twins: 99 Problems...

Interesting dealings going on. First Span, now Revere.

Anybody else?

Before we're done, I expect Morneau to go