What's new
By:
USCHO Fan Forum

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.

2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?

geezer said:
OK, bad comparison. My point was that there's a difference between one marginal candidate saying "take away his medicine" (or whatever the outlandish charge is), and a widespread, grassroots internet campaign to back up that person's plan to take away the medicine. One thing Santorum said doesn't represent what the rank and file think.

(In response, by the way, to bronconick: "Santorum's response tells me all I need to know about the other side.")
Click to expand...

Appreciate your willingness to pick up the standard.

Though Gingrich and Santorum are making up half if not more of the support among GOP electorate. Personally I don't see Gingrich and Santorum as being vastly different. If you compare that to 2008, Obama and Clinton accounted for the vast Dem support and were fairly interchangable candidates from a policy/stance standpoint. You can say that the Dems are either fairly unified or fairly flexible on their candidates.

Gingrich and Santorum social conservatism really does seem to represent at least half the GOP.
 
Rover said:
Given that low income white working class voters & elderly voters are the backbone of the GOP, I'm not sure The Mittster is endearing himself to his base which is already lukewarm about him.
Click to expand...

??

these people don't think that they're 'the poor'. they think that gov policies benefit the poor at their expense. this chit is exactly what they want to hear.
 
Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?

Rover said:
Interesting that Florida turnout was 200K below 2008 levels in the primary. That's not good by any stretch. So basically in 3 out of 4 primaries the turnout was disappointing, not so coincidentally in the 3 swing states. Also it should be noted that Ron Paul's strong showing vs 2008 in both Iowa and New Hampshire is the only reason 2012 turnout approached 2008 and those lunatics ain't showing up in the general unless Ronbo runs for Prez as a Libertarian. Where he didn't compete, Florida, turnout sunk by over 10%. I'm curious how Nevada's #'s end up coming in.
Click to expand...

Does turnout matter?

Lots of interesting stuff in that article. A few things that stood out to me:

2008 was a record year for GOP turnout. That worked out great. (It was a record year for Dems as well).

Prior to that, Dems record turnout came in 1988. Not exactly a great outcome there either. In 1992, when turnout went down 10% for the Dems, the end result wound up being a lot better.

This point wasn't mentioned in the article, but in 2008 there was some sort of tax referendum on the ballot as well, so that also drove up turnout. Add in the fact that both Paul and Santorum essentially threw in the towel in the state, and I really think turnout comparisons don't go very far in terms of any sort of predictive ability.
 
Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?

Kepler said:
That's not Maddow vs. O'Reilly. Having a grasp of and respect for facts over gut instinct is just liberal vs conservative. :)
Click to expand...

Bill O'Reilly would like you to know that Occupy Wall Street has nothing to do with money/finances/haves and have nots. In fact Bill has determined that Occupy Wall Street is nothing more than a bunch of extreme left wing loons.

Now that's ANALYSIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?

5mn_Major said:
Appreciate your willingness to pick up the standard.

Though Gingrich and Santorum are making up half if not more of the support among GOP electorate. Personally I don't see Gingrich and Santorum as being vastly different. If you compare that to 2008, Obama and Clinton accounted for the vast Dem support and were fairly interchangable candidates from a policy/stance standpoint. You can say that the Dems are either fairly unified or fairly flexible on their candidates.

Gingrich and Santorum social conservatism really does seem to represent at least half the GOP.
Click to expand...

Please. Fig is an "anyway the wind blows" politician, just like Romney. If a majority of Republicans were pro-choice and pro-gay marriage, he would be too. He's the epitome of a closet atheist.

Santorum, on the other hand, does appear to actually represent the theocons.
 
Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?

geezer said:
my curiosity got the better of me so I (I DO NOT ADVISE THIS) looked up the "frothy mix" meme/campaign. The campaign itself tells you everything you need to know about the liberal mentality.
Click to expand...

You mean hating people based on their words and actions rather than on inherent biological traits? I'd say that pretty much sums it up.
 
Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?

geezer said:
my curiosity got the better of me so I (I DO NOT ADVISE THIS) looked up the "frothy mix" meme/campaign. The campaign itself tells you everything you need to know about the liberal mentality.
Click to expand...
And the reason for that campaign tells you everything you need to know about Santorum, homophobia, the radical social right. But you probably skipped that part.

It's a bitch when the victims of bigotry and harassment fight back, yeah. Boo hoo.
 
Last edited:
Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?

Rover said:
Santorum epitomizes conservatism.
Click to expand...
No, he doesn't. Santorum epitomizes the ugly face of what passes for conservatism in America at this moment, but he's completely unconservative historically; he's a radical right winger with strong fascist tendencies. Santorum's platform: demonizing an out-group and appealing to fears and hatreds about them, the constant fear-mongering about threats to the family, proposing an expansion of government and big business to promote populist and militarist pursuits, hyper-nationalism and a concept of the "special historical mission" on world history of a privileged ideological group, is right out of Enrico Corradini and Gabriele d'Annunzio.

None of that is genuine conservatism. It's just another dangerous variety of the radical authoritarianism that emerges whenever there's an economic crisis.
 
Last edited:
Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?

Kepler said:
No, he doesn't. Santorum epitomizes the ugly face of what passes for conservatism in America at this moment, but he's completely unconservative historically; he's a radical right winger with strong fascist tendencies. Santorum's platform: demonizing an out-group and appealing to fears and hatreds about them, proposing an expansion of government and big business to promote populist and militarist pursuits, hyper-nationalism and a concept of the "special historical mission" on world history of a small ideological group, is right out of Enrico Corradini and Gabriele d'Annunzio.

None of that is genuine conservatism. It's just another variety of the radical authoritarianism that emerges whenever there's an economic crisis.
Click to expand...
Thank you. Amen!

(here's the part where you're supposed to go on to say that REAL conservatism is much worse... ;) )
 
Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?

ScoobyDoo said:
Bill O'Reilly would like you to know that Occupy Wall Street has nothing to do with money/finances/haves and have nots. In fact Bill has determined that Occupy Wall Street is nothing more than a bunch of extreme left wing loons.
Click to expand...
I'm actually shocked they haven't tied Occupy to the Chinese. I guess they're still trying to wring the last dollars out of Islamophobia before they turn to the Yellow Horde.
 
Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?

LynahFan said:
Thank you. Amen!

(here's the part where you're supposed to go on to say that REAL conservatism is much worse... ;) )
Click to expand...

As you know :) , real conservatism is this guy with a seasoning of this guy, and they totally rock. This guy was no slouch, either. And this guy, the grandfather of it all, and this guy, the great wellspring of the American variety, would either laugh or weep to see the hucksters, criminals and mental midgets who call themselves American "conservatives" today. :(

I started out a cautious libertarian. American right wing radicalism turned me into a flaming liberal, because one thing I took from a Catholic upbringing is when you identify evil you can't hairsplit, have to fight it. The enemies of the civilized world come from both fringes. In the 30's and 40's they came from the European right, in the 60's and the 70's they came from the Euro-Asian left, since the 00's they have come from the American right. These things are cyclical, but right now people of good will should tilt a little left to counterbalance the danger. Twenty years from now it may be completely the opposite.
 
Last edited:
Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?

Kepler said:
No, he doesn't. Santorum epitomizes the ugly face of what passes for conservatism in America at this moment, but he's completely unconservative historically; he's a radical right winger with strong fascist tendencies. Santorum's platform: demonizing an out-group and appealing to fears and hatreds about them, the constant fear-mongering about threats to the family, proposing an expansion of government and big business to promote populist and militarist pursuits, hyper-nationalism and a concept of the "special historical mission" on world history of a privileged ideological group, is right out of Enrico Corradini and Gabriele d'Annunzio.

None of that is genuine conservatism. It's just another dangerous variety of the radical authoritarianism that emerges whenever there's an economic crisis.
Click to expand...

That's all well and good Kep, so I'll clarify and say he epitomizes the dominant current day conservatism. I think the conservatism you speak of has been relegated to textbooks and historical novels. It doesn't exist in the country anymore and hasn't since the WWII generation of Republicans left the scene.
 
Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?

Rover said:
That's all well and good Kep, so I'll clarify and say he epitomizes the dominant current day conservatism. I think the conservatism you speak of has been relegated to textbooks and historical novels. It doesn't exist in the country anymore and hasn't since the WWII generation of Republicans left the scene.
Click to expand...

I disagree. I think conservatism as it is understood everywhere else in the world other than rural and SEC America and far right / "National Front"-like parties in Israel, France, and some smaller Euro countries is the older, wiser brand. The infection is concentrated, which is another reason it is so virulent.

Its days are numbered in America -- the only way to win, here, in the long run, is pluralism, so any ideology that curls itself into a tighter and tighter coil is bound to lose power everywhere but locally. That's why right wing radicalism is all but dead at the national level. In a decade it will be strictly regional in the usual suspect places. In a couple decades it will probably start losing even those statehouses, and then it will become contained in a few compound-like areas.

Conservatism will always be with us -- it's one of the two great pillars of western democracy. This thing that attacked it from within will not.
 
Last edited:
Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?

geezer said:
You call it hilarious. I call it hateful. How would you feel about it if someone started a campaign to define your own name to mean something you found particularly vile and disgusting (say for example, "living, breathing newborn baby.") Doesn't that seem mean? ;)
Click to expand...

I guess that depends...did I make my career by denigrating those "living breathing newborn babies" like Santorum did? If so then I pretty much asked for it. :D
 
Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?

Kepler said:
I disagree. I think conservatism as it is understood everywhere else in the world other than rural and SEC America and far right / "National Front"-like parties in Israel, France, and some smaller Euro countries is the older, wiser brand. The infection is concentrated, which is another reason it is so virulent.

Its days are numbered in America -- the only way to win, here, in the long run, is pluralism, so any ideology that curls itself into a tighter and tighter coil is bound to lose power everywhere but locally. That's why right wing radicalism is all but dead at the national level. In a decade it will be strictly regional in the usual suspect places. In a couple decades it will probably start losing even those statehouses, and then it will become contained in a few compound-like areas.

Conservatism will always be with us -- it's one of the two great pillars of western democracy. This thing that attacked it from within will not.
Click to expand...

I admire your optimism, but I'm not on board. The "true" conservatism you speak of hasn't been seen in the US (I'll leave other countries out for the purposes of this discussion) in decades. If Romney loses to Obama, the party isn't going to say its because he was too conservative. It'll be because he wasn't conservative enough. Us vs Them right wing politics have been at the forefront since Nixon. That means 40+ years of it and I don't see it changing anytime soon. The scapegoats may change (from blacks to Jewish people to Catholics to gays to immigrants to ???) but the song is the same. "These people (fill in the blank) are getting ahead, and you need to vote with us Republicans to stop them". Really, when was the last uplifting, optimistic GOP campaign? 1980? 1984? That's a hell of a long time ago.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top