Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?
How exactly does Romney = W?
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2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?
- Thread starter dxmnkd316
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ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?
Same same. Romney is beating the Iran war drum. Romney is a flip-flopper, so was Bush. Romney is establishment, so was Bush. Romney is the guy you'd have a beer with. So was Bush.
Same same same same.
How exactly does Romney = W?
Same same. Romney is beating the Iran war drum. Romney is a flip-flopper, so was Bush. Romney is establishment, so was Bush. Romney is the guy you'd have a beer with. So was Bush.
Same same same same.
Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?
That one is actually pretty funny.
That one is actually pretty funny.
Kepler
Cornell Big Red
Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?
The quadrennial cry for sanity which is quadrennially ignored.
The quadrennial cry for sanity which is quadrennially ignored.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?
Another reason Romney will win and he's like George W. Bush.
Another reason Romney will win and he's like George W. Bush.
Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?
Those are all fairly weak comparisons, Scooby.
First off, the vast majority of politicians change positions / flip-flop on issues when it suits them, so pretty much any candidate you can think of would be "the same as W" by this definition. Second, most of the candidates represent some form of the establishment, so that's hardly a unique similarity held by Romney. Third, the argument for attacking Iran is a far stronger one than it was with Iraq given the fact that Iran has known terrorist ties, has an active nuclear program, and is developing / improving its ballistic missiles (plus covert action has already been taken against them in all likelihood, so we may very well be edging closer to a military conflict no matter who is president).
If you're going to call him a W clone with any shred of credibility, you need to do a lot better than that.
My impression of him is he's much more polished than W, and despite the rhetoric he's uttering (to cater to the right wing of the party that is most likely to show up at primaries/caucuses), his track record puts him much closer to the center than W ever was (still to the right of Obama obviously, but the gap isn't nearly as wide as it was between Kerry/Bush or Gore/Bush).
Those are all fairly weak comparisons, Scooby.
First off, the vast majority of politicians change positions / flip-flop on issues when it suits them, so pretty much any candidate you can think of would be "the same as W" by this definition. Second, most of the candidates represent some form of the establishment, so that's hardly a unique similarity held by Romney. Third, the argument for attacking Iran is a far stronger one than it was with Iraq given the fact that Iran has known terrorist ties, has an active nuclear program, and is developing / improving its ballistic missiles (plus covert action has already been taken against them in all likelihood, so we may very well be edging closer to a military conflict no matter who is president).
If you're going to call him a W clone with any shred of credibility, you need to do a lot better than that.
My impression of him is he's much more polished than W, and despite the rhetoric he's uttering (to cater to the right wing of the party that is most likely to show up at primaries/caucuses), his track record puts him much closer to the center than W ever was (still to the right of Obama obviously, but the gap isn't nearly as wide as it was between Kerry/Bush or Gore/Bush).
Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?
Romney's nothing like GW Bush, except the (R). He's certainly not the aw-shucks Texan you'd like to have a beer with, and he's far more flip-floppier... I don't see the same governing style at all coming out of a Romney presidency. GW was a lot of "my way or the highway" where Mitt seems too eager to please everyone.
Romney's nothing like GW Bush, except the (R). He's certainly not the aw-shucks Texan you'd like to have a beer with, and he's far more flip-floppier... I don't see the same governing style at all coming out of a Romney presidency. GW was a lot of "my way or the highway" where Mitt seems too eager to please everyone.
Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?
Yes Kepler, I know what he's doing - I'm just really really bored.
Coin flip on the first one and little to no chance of the second one. In some ways, he reminds me of Clinton (slick politician and the party base doesn't fully trust him). Or if you prefer to look at an analogous Republican, you should probably look at the elder Bush (of re-election ruining budget deal fame).
Yes Kepler, I know what he's doing - I'm just really really bored.
P
Priceless
Guest
Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?
The GOP legislature drew up a new districting plan that would have given the GOP the second district and given them a decent shot of picking up an electoral vote. I am among those that would be moved from CD1 to CD2. That idea was rejected by the independent arbiter. The Congressional Districts remain pretty much the same as before, with a few thousand in (I think) Kennebec County shifting. The 1st CD is still safely Dem, but CD2 is even closer than before.
The GOP legislature drew up a new districting plan that would have given the GOP the second district and given them a decent shot of picking up an electoral vote. I am among those that would be moved from CD1 to CD2. That idea was rejected by the independent arbiter. The Congressional Districts remain pretty much the same as before, with a few thousand in (I think) Kennebec County shifting. The 1st CD is still safely Dem, but CD2 is even closer than before.
FadeToBlack&Gold
Microlot Marxist
Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?
Romney won't flip Michigan without a serious campaign effort here. Just because daddy was a popular governor eons ago doesn't give him much of a leg up - he hasn't lived here since, and as previously mentioned he'll have to answer to the UAW about his anti-bailout stance, even if it was just an attempt by him to pander to the base.
I also recall that he swung through the Detroit area last year, and was heckled by many members of the crowd that showed up at his events.
Romney won't flip Michigan without a serious campaign effort here. Just because daddy was a popular governor eons ago doesn't give him much of a leg up - he hasn't lived here since, and as previously mentioned he'll have to answer to the UAW about his anti-bailout stance, even if it was just an attempt by him to pander to the base.
I also recall that he swung through the Detroit area last year, and was heckled by many members of the crowd that showed up at his events.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?
I'm not trolling. I believe Romney will win and I believe he's GW Bush II. I have the same feeling this year I had in 2000.
I'm not trolling. I believe Romney will win and I believe he's GW Bush II. I have the same feeling this year I had in 2000.
Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?
at the risk of being the clueless idiot (as usual?), I actually think he meant it.
at the risk of being the clueless idiot (as usual?), I actually think he meant it.
bronconick
Yep, still here
Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?
Craig James had his first debate in the Republican primary for US Senator out of Texas, and you'll be relieved to know that he's as much a moron on the debate floor as in the tv booth.
Craig James had his first debate in the Republican primary for US Senator out of Texas, and you'll be relieved to know that he's as much a moron on the debate floor as in the tv booth.
Kepler
Cornell Big Red
Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?
Here's a really stupid question from a non-Michiganer. After 30 years of cratering, how important is auto industry labor now in MI? Still dominant, or just one of a number of important constituencies?
That's good news. I assumed the fix was in because of his father.
Here's a really stupid question from a non-Michiganer. After 30 years of cratering, how important is auto industry labor now in MI? Still dominant, or just one of a number of important constituencies?
Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?
While I too am as surprised as The Mittster is about hearing about job outsourcing during the GOP primary, he ain't seen nothin' yet. To my knowledge nobody has yet run ads with the very people talking into the camera saying how they worked hard all their life but now their job's in China after Bain came in and shut them down. Those ads are devastating, I saw them in the '94 Senate race and its tough to counter. Certainly Romney was doing right by his investors. The problem is Obama will easily ask the question has Romney ever made a little bit less of a killing on a deal in order to keep jobs in the United States? My guess is the answer to that question is no, and how do you explain that to the people who got canned? Blame them for not working for Chinese wages?
While I too am as surprised as The Mittster is about hearing about job outsourcing during the GOP primary, he ain't seen nothin' yet. To my knowledge nobody has yet run ads with the very people talking into the camera saying how they worked hard all their life but now their job's in China after Bain came in and shut them down. Those ads are devastating, I saw them in the '94 Senate race and its tough to counter. Certainly Romney was doing right by his investors. The problem is Obama will easily ask the question has Romney ever made a little bit less of a killing on a deal in order to keep jobs in the United States? My guess is the answer to that question is no, and how do you explain that to the people who got canned? Blame them for not working for Chinese wages?
Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?
The Romney campaign should find a place for Matthew Yglesias. No, really.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...t_romney_a_looter_or_a_corporate_raider_.html
The Romney campaign should find a place for Matthew Yglesias. No, really.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...t_romney_a_looter_or_a_corporate_raider_.html
Twitch Boy
Defacing this tagline is a MAX foul
Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?
Pretty dominant, but they go for the Democrats anyway. Most prominent inside the auto cities (Saginaw, Flint, Detroit.) Michigan would be flaming red if not for them. Outside the cities are farms and the "gubmint's comin' fer mah huntin' guns" types with 40 acre lots surrounded in barbed wire (Ted Nugent had a ranch in Jackson, that's about all you need to know.) Western half of the Lower Peninsula (Muskegon, Grand Rapids) is Bible-land, and the UP is basically bootstrappy red except for Marquette.
It's like Kansas in a swamp.
Pretty dominant, but they go for the Democrats anyway. Most prominent inside the auto cities (Saginaw, Flint, Detroit.) Michigan would be flaming red if not for them. Outside the cities are farms and the "gubmint's comin' fer mah huntin' guns" types with 40 acre lots surrounded in barbed wire (Ted Nugent had a ranch in Jackson, that's about all you need to know.) Western half of the Lower Peninsula (Muskegon, Grand Rapids) is Bible-land, and the UP is basically bootstrappy red except for Marquette.
It's like Kansas in a swamp.
Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?
I was kind of curious if the question could be answered... I think you've summed up Michigan pretty well in that it's very fragmented. You could replace "Marquette" with "the western half" of the UP but that's only 7 or 8 more people anyway. With good news bubbling up on the Michigan economy just as Snyder has gotten his governing plan into action (tax breaks for business, screw education), things could theoretically change but I expect it'll stay solidly in Obama's camp. The Repubs will say Snyder is turning it around and the Dems will say the bailouts etc. from the feds are more to credit.
I was kind of curious if the question could be answered... I think you've summed up Michigan pretty well in that it's very fragmented. You could replace "Marquette" with "the western half" of the UP but that's only 7 or 8 more people anyway. With good news bubbling up on the Michigan economy just as Snyder has gotten his governing plan into action (tax breaks for business, screw education), things could theoretically change but I expect it'll stay solidly in Obama's camp. The Repubs will say Snyder is turning it around and the Dems will say the bailouts etc. from the feds are more to credit.
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