2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

[joecct]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

IF PA goes to Congressional district Electoral college apportionment, it may make a difference. It's going to be the economy and who spins it best as to who is responsible for getting us into this mess as I don't think we're anywhere out of it by 11/12.

 

[Priceless]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

This may or may not have been seen at the GOP debate...

 

[duper]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

Actually, there were 34 witnesses, not nine. And then there's the little matter of a pair of Davis' shorts found soaked in the cop's blood. For some reason or another never mentioned by the PR types wanting this killer to be "spared." All I'm asking for here is a little intellectual honesty ("needless killing" kind of gives away the store). Are you still whining about Davis' "innocence," or are you arguing against capital punishment? If it's the latter, then why not say so up front? How much due process is enough? He had opportunity after opportunity (including two interventions by SCOTUS) to show there had been a miscarriage of justice. He didn't. He couldn't. As to "proving your innocence," don't be obtuse. He was indicted, tried and convicted. He was not selected randomly off the street.

In this case (as usual) the people in a position to know, federal and state judges and the Georgia Pardons Board, ruled against Davis. And the people furthest away, with the least knowledge, Bishop Tutu for instance, were convinced he was innocent. God bless Bishop Tutu, but he knew as much about this case as he does about flying a space shuttle, which is to say zero.

It's a perfectly honorable position to be against capital punishment--although I respectfully disagree. But I'm weary of anti-capital punishment types hoping against hope they've finally found the case of an "innocent" man about to be put to death. The larger objective, IMO, tends to cloud their judgement as to the actual facts of the case they're yammering about. And I suppose it would be dirty pool to point out your apparant lack of concern for that Texas monster who also got his last night. If you're against the death penalty, you should stand up for him too, shouldn't you? But in his case it's a teensy bit harder, isn't it?

No, it's not.

 

[duper]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

Your hypocrisy is deafening. If someone had done this to Obama in the 2008 campaign, you and many others would have screamed bloody murder. I know you're a rabid partisan, but I didn't think you'd be a supporter of gutter tactics like this. I guess I was wrong.

BS. If someone who has a long history of stupid crap like that (Fred Phelps or someone of his ilk) I personally wouldn't care. And if Larry Flynt goes around offering up money to do this to regular people I would be appalled. But seriously, getting upset about this is like getting upset about a two year old acting like a two year old.

 

[huskyfan]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

yes, being a daughter, stepmother and a wife of a veteran I strongly support the military. it takes a great commitment and courage to offer to lay your life down so that the rest of us slackers can live free. personally I don't care if you are gay, straight, curved or from Mars ... our troops are the greatest. I wouldn't take an outrageous reaction from a primary crowd too seriously. GOP runs to the right, the Dems primaries to the left. its a problem with the primary system that we tend to go for the extreme candidates.

politcs...its fascinating...if the election were this November Obama would lose in a landslide. 14 months from now? who knows? I tend to agree with the 1992 Clinton campaign ... "its the economy, stupid"

 

[Old Pio]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

No, it's not.

Not for you, evidently. However, so far you're the only one to have answered that question. Two executiions on the same night and all anybody wants to talk about is the cop killer, and his high profile international "supporters." As I say, if you're against capital punishment, period, that's an honorable position. I just think some people need killing and those two earlier this week are prime examples.

 

[Foxton]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

No, it's not.

It's Perry's job to execute the innocent. (And then remove anyone investigating it)

 

[duper]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

Not for you, evidently. However, so far you're the only one to have answered that question. Two executiions on the same night and all anybody wants to talk about is the cop killer. As I say, if you're against capital punishment, period, that's an honorable position. I just think some people need killing and those two earlier this week are prime examples.

In fact, Old Pio, I tend to agree with you. Capital punishment gets me so irritated that when it is in the news I actually make a point to avoid reading about it, so I honestly don't know anything about either of these cases, even though I have of course heard the name of the guy in Georgia this week.

I think that if you are anti-capital punishment, you should be up front about it. And there are so many cases where people whose guilt was far far short of "beyond a reasonable doubt" were clearly put to death, that it isn't necessary to pick someone who is probably guilty, except for the message to be, "This guy is a filthy murderer and rapist but it is not for us to stoop to his (yep, I'm gonna assume it's a man ) level."

And again, I have NO IDEA about the details of this case, and I frankly don't want to know.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

In fact, Old Pio, I tend to agree with you. Capital punishment gets me so irritated that when it is in the news I actually make a point to avoid reading about it, so I honestly don't know anything about either of these cases, even though I have of course heard the name of the guy in Georgia this week.

I think that if you are anti-capital punishment, you should be up front about it. And there are so many cases where people whose guilt was far far short of "beyond a reasonable doubt" were clearly put to death, that it isn't necessary to pick someone who is probably guilty, except for the message to be, "This guy is a filthy murderer and rapist but it is not for us to stoop to his (yep, I'm gonna assume it's a man ) level."

And again, I have NO IDEA about the details of this case, and I frankly don't want to know.

I'll give you the Reader's Digest version of a story I've told before. As Texas was about to execute Ronald Clark O'Bryan, who poisoned his son with adulterated Halloween candy, and gave poisoned candy to several others kids in the neighborhood to cover his tracks (one kid fell asleep before he could eat the candy, his mom found him in bed with it the next day!) I did an interview that involved a young ACLU lawyer. During a break, he leaned over to me and said "I'm having a tough time working up any sympathy for this guy." Exactly.

A lot of cheap politicians, pandering for votes, act like supporting capital punishment is the same as actually having any ideas on how to protect citizens from criminals and to reform those who can be reformed. We'll just have to disagree about all the "innocent" people who've been executed (I assume you're referring to the recent era). Rather than do away with capital punishment we should provide capital defendants with the best possible representation and sufficient budgets to make the best possible case. As I say, these cases are generally not complicated, with tained testimony and evidence. That's just lawyer talk. That's what they do.

Texas has already executed one of the 7 devils who broke out of prison several years ago and killed a young police officer who was investigating their burglary of a sporting goods store. They shot him 11 times then deliberately ran over his body. Roll up your sleeves, boys.

 

[bronconick]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

The saddest thing about that debate and booing the soldier is that none of them bothered to rebuke the crowd. I mean, hell, if you're Gary Johnson or Herman Cain, or really anyone not named "Romney" or "Perry" , you're not winning the nomination as is. You're pulling 1%. Being the one guy that says "I don't care what he does in his bedroom, I honor his service" gets you a few days of positive publicity. Maybe you're savvy enough to spin that into more coverage and get off the mat. Who knows.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

The saddest thing about that debate and booing the soldier is that none of them bothered to rebuke the crowd. I mean, hell, if you're Gary Johnson or Herman Cain, or really anyone not named "Romney" or "Perry" , you're not winning the nomination as is. You're pulling 1%. Being the one guy that says "I don't care what he does in his bedroom, I honor his service" gets you a few days of positive publicity. Maybe you're savvy enough to spin that into more coverage and get off the mat. Who knows.

Or in the alternative, saying it because it's the right thing to do.

 

[bronconick]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

Or in the alternative, saying it because it's the right thing to do.

Well sure, but you're clearly not thinking like a politician.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

I was speechless after watching the clips from the debate last night on Morning Joe. I can't support any of these guys. Period. Completely unacceptable for someone vying to be Commander in Chief to not do everything he can to defend the troops. These people should be ashamed.

 

[Foxton]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

I was speechless after watching the clips from the debate last night on Morning Joe. I can't support any of these guys. Period. Completely unacceptable for someone vying to be Commander in Chief to not do everything he can to defend the troops. These people should be ashamed.

Don't worry, you'll see plenty of press releases saying how they really support the troops. But they can't cater to these people if it requires reading.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/G5o2PB2YhME" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Edit Santorum has said he didn't hear the boos....

 

[duper]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

We'll just have to disagree about all the "innocent" people who've been executed (I assume you're referring to the recent era).

I have long since accepted that most people just don't see the world the way I do. There have been quite a few capital cases in which gaping doubt holes have been punched. The moratorium placed on the death penalty by the State of Illinois a few years back (by a Republican governor, for the record) had to do with exactly that.

That said, you make a good suggestion for those who believe in murdering citizens for revenge (sorry, I couldn't resist) that at the very least society could ensure that someone on trial for their life should have access to a good defense. That would make me (and I suspect a lot of other people) feel a lot better about capital punishment.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

Indiana and Virginia are going Republican. as is Florida. and Ohio. and Michigan. maybe Pennsylvania. perhaps North Carolina. perhaps Wisconsin. Obama's disapproval polls in CALIFORNIA are 50/50. some one tell me how electorally Obama can win. heck, I'm no longer sure he can even win the nomination. there are alot of Democratic senators up for re-election and they are not going to want his dragging them down. there is even an outside chance the GOP gets the super majority in the Senate. even Jimmy Carter didn't have it so bad.

Remember people are upset with government. Approvals of handling of GOPs governing process are no better.

As far as election, job approvals do not reflect directly over to electability. Polls ask who voters would choose:

Generic Republican vs. Obama: GOP = 0.5 lead
Obama vs. Romney: Obama = 3.0 pt lead
Obama vs. Perry: Obama = 8.2 pt lead
Obama vs. Paul: Obama = 3.3 pt lead
Obama vs. Bachmann: Obama = 14.2 pt lead
RCP average

This isn't over in either direction...there are quite a few ways the GOP can lose.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

Obama vs. Bachmann: Obama = 14.2 pt lead

This saddens me.

 

[duper]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

This saddens me.

Me too. How can he not be leading that contest by about 100?



I rarely do this, but I am going to inject an issue of presidential politics into this thread.

President Obama offers NCLB waivers to states

I love this quote from MN Rep John Kline.

In my judgment, he is exercising an authority and power he doesn’t have. We all know the law is broken and needs to be changed. But this is part and parcel with the whole picture with this administration: they cannot get their agenda through Congress, so they’re doing it with executive orders and rewriting rules. This is executive overreach.

Here is what plays in my brain. "We have tried hard to be good and sure that this guy can't slip anything through congress, no matter how politically conservative it may be, and we're really ****ed off and bitter that he found a way to get something done. We want him to be known is the least effective president in history and that son of a ***** is trying to ruin that for us."

Because seriously, the guy is taking a power that is currently held by the federal government and giving states an option to take it over for themselves. Perhaps I am mistaken here, but this seems like a pretty conservative move to me.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

I have long since accepted that most people just don't see the world the way I do. There have been quite a few capital cases in which gaping doubt holes have been punched. The moratorium placed on the death penalty by the State of Illinois a few years back (by a Republican governor, for the record) had to do with exactly that.

That said, you make a good suggestion for those who believe in murdering citizens for revenge (sorry, I couldn't resist) that at the very least society could ensure that someone on trial for their life should have access to a good defense. That would make me (and I suspect a lot of other people) feel a lot better about capital punishment.

A moratorium imposed by an Illinois governor unsuccessfully trying to keep himself out of prison, IIRC. Illinois has set varous "standards" which the rest of the states shouldn't try to emulate.

 

[sagard]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

This saddens me.

Why? Overall it looks like it should at this point. Close races vs. the responsible Repubs, larger gaps vs. the others.

Hopefully the Repubs give many of us in the middle a reasonable alternative to Obama.