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2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

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Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

Bob Gray said:
The populace doesn't like to hear truth about things like Social Security. We all should know that. You make any comments other than singing its praises, and it's costing you votes. No two ways about it.
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Probably because social security can be solved pretty easily. Right now, if we do nothing, it's fine for another 25 years (give or take), and even then, we can continue to fund it at 75% of current benefits.

If you up the retirement age by 3-5 years over time and eliminate the wage cap on collections, it becomes solvent pretty much indefinitely.

Social security is easy when you get down to it.
 
Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

Bob Gray said:
The populace doesn't like to hear truth about things like Social Security. We all should know that. You make any comments other than singing its praises, and it's costing you votes. No two ways about it.
Click to expand...
See also: taxes.
 
Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

This is interesting. I can't see any calculation advantage in it. Heavens, it might actually be a principled stand.

From the mundane to the ridiculous, this is the best early take I've read on Oh, That. It is in many ways a defense of the grifting snowbilly, albeit one she's not likely to understand.
 
Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

unofan said:
Probably because social security can be solved pretty easily. Right now, if we do nothing, it's fine for another 25 years (give or take), and even then, we can continue to fund it at 75% of current benefits.

If you up the retirement age by 3-5 years over time and eliminate the wage cap on collections, it becomes solvent pretty much indefinitely.

Social security is easy when you get down to it.
Click to expand...

Do you then eliminate the cap on benefits?
 
Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

Kepler said:
See also: taxes.
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True in some ways. Though it's more of a trade-off, with it costing you certain votes, but gaining other votes from people who will (or think they will) benefit from the additional spending resulting from the taxes. Though overall it would likely cost more votes than it would gain.
 
Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

unofan said:
Probably because social security can be solved pretty easily. Right now, if we do nothing, it's fine for another 25 years (give or take), and even then, we can continue to fund it at 75% of current benefits.

If you up the retirement age by 3-5 years over time and eliminate the wage cap on collections, it becomes solvent pretty much indefinitely.

Social security is easy when you get down to it.
Click to expand...

You feeling ok today?

To summarize what you've said today:
Cap and trade on carbon - no big deal
Social Security - easy fix

Next up I expect a claim that world peace is achievable with just a bit more effort.
 
Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

Bob Gray said:
To summarize what you've said today:
Cap and trade on carbon - no big deal
Social Security - easy fix
Click to expand...

First off, I never said cap and trade was no big deal. I said it should be embraced by the GOP since it's a free market solution of their own creation that was extremely successful in prior instances.

The actual fix to social security IS easy. Raising the retirement age to 68 within the next 15 years and to 70 within the next 25 requires about 2 lines of bill writing. The problem is getting passed AARP's automatically negative stance and the votes that'll carry with it. Add in Norquist's "no new taxes, ever" derp-fest that'll muck up any hope of raising the wage contribution cap, and well, we're where we are today.
 
Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

unofan said:
The actual fix to social security IS easy. Raising the retirement age to 68 within the next 15 years and to 70 within the next 25 requires about 2 lines of bill writing. The problem is getting passed AARP's automatically negative stance and the votes that'll carry with it,
Click to expand...

I agree that it's easy. Not sure why Bob thinks it's so difficult. He sides with the demagogue's a lot of the time though.
 
Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

unofan said:
First off, I never said cap and trade was no big deal. I said it should be embraced by the GOP since it's a free market solution of their own creation that was extremely successful in prior instances.

The actual fix to social security IS easy. Raising the retirement age to 68 within the next 15 years and to 70 within the next 25 requires about 2 lines of bill writing. The problem is getting passed AARP's automatically negative stance and the votes that'll carry with it. Add in Norquist's "no new taxes, ever" derp-fest that'll muck up any hope of raising the wage contribution cap, and well, we're where we are today.
Click to expand...
So, it's easy, except it isn't easy. Gotcha. So are lots of other problems.


There have been no prior instances of cap and trade for carbon in the U.S. I posit that because it might be considered successful for sulfur dioxide doesn't mean it would be successful for carbon, of course depending on how one defines success.
 
Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

Bob Gray said:
I posit that because it might be considered successful for sulfur dioxide doesn't mean it would be successful for carbon, of course depending on how one defines success.
Click to expand...

If this were a legal argument, I'd say your assertion is being pulled out of your ***, since you have no factual or legal support behind it.

My assertion is not only backed by economic theory, but the real world example of sulfer dioxide as an analagous case.

I guess it makes some sense though, why the GOP runs away from its successes. Since the modern day GOP runs on the platform that 'gubmint is evil,' they don't want to show any instances of the government doing things well, as that destroys their narrative.
 
Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

Bob Gray said:
So, it's easy, except it isn't easy. Gotcha. So are lots of other problems.
Click to expand...

It's easy if a certain party actually wanted to fix it rather than use it for cheap political points, say by calling it a ponzi scheme.

The AARP issue can probably be gotten around by agreeing to immunize the Selfish Generation from any of the changes (which, I imagine, most of Generations X & Y would go along with since we're farked either way; at least if we agree to that we get some lube first). The Norquist issue is entirely in the court of one party, which, oddly enough, is the same one that doesn't seem to want to fix it at all.
 
Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

Bob Gray said:
Go demagogues! Sis-boom-bah!
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Worthless without a mascot...

a96800_a499_scrotie.jpg
 
Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

The COLAs should be frozen for a decade - it's outrageous that every solution to the social security problem ****s the working age people and completely shields the elderly from making any sacrifice whatsoever.
 
Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

unofan said:
It's easy if a certain party actually wanted to fix it rather than use it for cheap political points, say by calling it a ponzi scheme.

The AARP issue can probably be gotten around by agreeing to immunize the Selfish Generation from any of the changes (which, I imagine, most of Generations X & Y would go along with since we're farked either way; at least if we agree to that we get some lube first). The Norquist issue is entirely in the court of one party, which, oddly enough, is the same one that doesn't seem to want to fix it at all.
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Conservatives have been trying to destroy Social Security since the day it was enacted. Remember: it's Communism!

There's no reason to ditch Social Security -- it can be fixed by nudging it back towards an insurance program rather than an Entitlement. The budgetary killer is health care and the economic killer is the destruction of the middle class by the plutocrats. Nothing good really happens in this country until we take on both of those problems, and one reason to hope the Republicans don't get back to the White House for a long, long time is they do nothing on the former and they're on the wrong side on the latter.

In the meantime, we have to do something about militarism and expansionism before it does just what it did to every empire before us. But frankly that will probably only get us a quarter of the way to sanity. Restoring the tax structure and getting a hold of medical costs are even more important than ending the military welfare state.
 
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Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

Bakunin said:
The COLAs should be frozen for a decade - it's outrageous that every solution to the social security problem ****s the working age people and completely shields the elderly from making any sacrifice whatsoever.
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There isn't a 20-30-somethings Workers Lobby. So, they're forked and always will be forked.

Go conservatives. Destroy the safetynet and cowtow to the plutocrats. Yeah for Plutocracy, machine guns on the border, The Death Penalty, AND medical condition bankruptcy for EVERYONE.

God Bless America.
 
Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

unofan said:
It's easy if a certain party actually wanted to fix it rather than use it for cheap political points
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That's what we've been saying about the border issue for years here in Arizona, but Bush and now Obama hasn't listened. Glad to know you're on board with us on that issue.

Really, your comment could be said about a lot of big issues. Take special interests out of the room and you fix things. Not that it's going to ever happen, so it's not an easy fix. Spiraling Medicare and defense spending costs could easily be controlled and reduced, in theory. But, reality is generally different than theory.
 
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