2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

[Bob Gray]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

Jumping to conclusions, again. Lemme help you out.

I was actually being quite serious: particularly for those of us who aren't wild about Modernity, that line of thought is interesting, and very fruitful. The world is too much with us, and plenty of us understand the worship of a stripped-down rationalism (and its natural reductio ad absurdum, the reduction of all of life to a soulless search for profit) was a withering of the human spirit.

Couple things, though. The marriage of that idea to religious fundamentalism of Bachmann's sort is the equivalent of trying to fit a description of Thomas Aquinas into a first grade reader. And more to the point, Bachmann's worship of the Founders is a perfect repudiation of these (I'm sure, completely misunderstood) ideas. The Founders, and the ideological origins of the American Revolution, were the political pinnacle of the Enlightenment. For her to allude to a Christian distrust of the Renaissance in one breath and then fawn all over Adams and Jefferson in the next is a contradiction and the definition of irony.

If you want to read a great book about the world view that has been lost, by the way, I highly recommend C. S. Lewis' The Discarded Image. It's one of the most beautiful and deep books I've ever had the pleasure of reading. It's the real thing: not some catch-phrase a thumper picked up to gild her ignorance with a patina of intellectual sophistry.

Just going by the link you posted, without all this explanation you now provide. All I was saying is that if someone tries to paint her as nuts for being interested in someone like Francis Schaeffer, as the Atlantic Article was doing at least to some extent, it'll likely backfire, as Schaeffer isn't considered a wackjob in most Christian circles in this country. But, I doubt the writer for the Atlantic knows a whole lot about Schaeffer.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

Just going by the link you posted, without all this explanation you now provide. All I was saying is that if someone tries to paint her as nuts for being interested in someone like Francis Schaeffer, as the Atlantic Article was doing at least to some extent, it'll likely backfire, as Schaeffer isn't considered a wackjob in most Christian circles in this country. But, I doubt the writer for the Atlantic knows a whole lot about Schaeffer.

The fault is mine in that I was inexact in saying Bachmann is crazy in an interesting way. Bachmann is crazy, but her quoting far, far smarter people than she who have been able to see the modern world as just another arbitrary construction forced on us by the accidental tyranny of the ideas current in our time, as "real" or "unreal" as that of Aristotle or Confucius or Abelard or a savage living in an enchanted universe, is not what makes her crazy.

Like most demagogues, she should stick to dogma. A sincere spiritual search, wherever it ends, is beyond her abilities. All she'll ever see is a mirror to preen before.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

The fault is mine in that I was inexact in saying Bachmann is crazy in an interesting way. Bachmann is crazy, but her quoting far, far smarter people than she who have been able to see the modern world as just another arbitrary construction forced on us by the accidental tyranny of the ideas current in our time, as "real" or "unreal" as that of Aristotle or Confucius or Abelard or a savage living in an enchanted universe, is not what makes her crazy.

Like most demagogues, she should stick to dogma. A sincere spiritual search, wherever it ends, is beyond her abilities. All she'll ever see is a mirror to preen before.

I don't see the issue with quoting people who are, allegedly, smarter than someone else. I know Bachmann is going to get clobbered around here for lots of stuff, but bashing her for quoting someone smarter than her seems well down the list of what I'd choose of I were you, looking to go after her. It's a common tactic to claim that those who are on the other side of issues are just stupid, but most of the time it's not true, or certainly greatly exagerrated. I've found that more often in life, people who don't see what I see aren't stupid, they just have a very different perspective and understanding.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

I don't see the issue with quoting people who are, allegedly, smarter than someone else. I know Bachmann is going to get clobbered around here for lots of stuff, but bashing her for quoting someone smarter than her seems well down the list of what I'd choose of I were you, looking to go after her. It's a common tactic to claim that those who are on the other side of issues are just stupid, but most of the time it's not true, or certainly greatly exagerrated. I've found that more often in life, people who don't see what I see aren't stupid, they just have a very different perspective and understanding.

C'mon Bob, you know as well as I that much of what passes for liberal "thought" these days is based on the assumption that they and the people they support for public office are intellectually superior. Rick Perry hasn't even officially announced he's in the race but his transcript at A & M has been "revealed." Horrors, he was an indifferent student. Meanwhile, President Deadmeat, the smartest guy in any room, has been living in the WH now for about three years and we still haven't seen his transcript. And we just knew John Kerry was smarter than Bush. Except Bush had highter SAT scores and grades at Yale. The question that's being begged here (repeatedly) is whether or not college transcripts are predictive of the kind of leadership we look for in a president. The available evidence is that they aren't but that doesn't stop our little friends of the left from tugging themselves at how "stupid" their opponants are and, by extension, how smart they are.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

I don't see the issue with quoting people who are, allegedly, smarter than someone else. I know Bachmann is going to get clobbered around here for lots of stuff, but bashing her for quoting someone smarter than her seems well down the list of what I'd choose of I were you, looking to go after her. It's a common tactic to claim that those who are on the other side of issues are just stupid, but most of the time it's not true, or certainly greatly exagerrated. I've found that more often in life, people who don't see what I see aren't stupid, they just have a very different perspective and understanding.

And claiming something is a "common tactic" is a well-worn way of pivoting from an analysis of the point being made to a charge of disingenuousness -- basically, an ad hominum attack.

In my opinion, Bachmann hasn't demonstrated a firm grasp of any idea for either of us to agree or disagree with. That is, naturally, just a opinion. Apparently she is an inspired political animal, however, given how she's been destroying TPaw specifically and the rest of the field generally tonight. Of course, an animal can be deadly without having any ability to think for itself. One thing to her absolute credit however: she hasn't played the victim card once. After this, nobody on the planet will remember Palin as anything more than a cynical grifter with a thin skin, who hid behind her gender every moment of her public life. Bachmann may be an idiot, but she actually appears to be a genuine post-feminist idiot who neither asks not gives quarter from the boys.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

C'mon Bob, you know as well as I that much of what passes for liberal "thought" these days is based on the assumption that they and the people they support for public office are intellectually superior.

This old saw reminds me of the terror of NRA people hiding in their compounds and gripping their guns because they think liberals want to take them away. Nobody is saying conservatives as such are stupid. There are certainly a lot of prominent conservatives (well, right wingers) who are stupid -- the Palin, Bachmann, Santorum types. But there are also stupid prominent liberals who are stupid. God help us all, Patty Murray, possibly the stupidest member of Congress not from Oklahoma, is on the gang of 12.

Stop hiding behind the "you think we're all stupid" wahmbulance. Stupid is as stupid does. The dominant ideas on the right, at the moment, may be very, very stupid, but then again they aren't conservative by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

And claiming something is a "common tactic" is a well-worn way of pivoting from an analysis of the point being made to a charge of disingenuousness -- basically, an ad hominum attack.

In my opinion, Bachmann hasn't demonstrated a firm grasp of any idea for either of us to agree or disagree with. That is, naturally, just a opinion. Apparently she is an inspired political animal, however, given how she's been destroying TPaw specifically and the rest of the field generally tonight. Of course, an animal can be deadly without having any ability to think for itself. One thing to her absolute credit however: she hasn't played the victim card once. After this, nobody on the planet will remember Palin as anything more than a sad girfter with a thin skin, who hid behind her gender every moment of her public life. Bachmann may be an idiot, but she actually appears to be a genuine post-feminist idiot who neither asks not gives quarter from the boys.

Taking offense at being accused of responsibility in a mass murder is evidence of a "thin skin?" Well no matter, they're both stupid, so that ends the discussion. Not an intellectual like President Deadmeat who's visited all 57 states. BTW, when are we going to see HIS transcripts?

 

[Old Pio]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

This old saw reminds me of the terror of NRA people hiding in their compounds and gripping their guns because they think liberals want to take them away. Nobody is saying conservatives as such are stupid. There are certainly a lot of prominent conservatives (well, right wingers) who are stupid -- the Palin, Bachmann, Santorum types. But there are also stupid prominent liberals who are stupid. God help us all, Patty Murray, possibly the stupidest member of Congress not from Oklahoma, is on the gang of 12.

Stop hiding behind the "you think we're all stupid" wahmbulance. Stupid is as stupid does. The dominant ideas on the right, at the moment, may be very, very stupid, but then again they aren't conservative by any stretch of the imagination.

Thus sayeth the lord. Not one of your better efforts at pretending you're balanced. You've done much better. You gave it all you had, and all you could come up with is Patty Murray?

So I've been imagining those millions of words about the lack of intellectual capacity of just about every prominent Republican in my lifetime? Not to mention the daily, hourly, minute by minute snark attacks on the two conservative ladies? The overwhelming bulk of which is personal and has nothing to do with policy. I would not vote for either one of them for president in a primary. But the attacks on them have, IMO, crossed the line. Bachmann is "responsible" for the tragic suicides of some kids in her home district? "Responsible?" Really? On top of which she's stupid. Which means this "stupid" b*tch is causing the deaths of children and needs to be stopped? Why don't you personally and the rest of your pals dial back a bit on the rhetoric? You went to great lengths to defend the website that posted a piece calling her handicapped kid "retarded." You uttered not a single word that such language, directed at a helpless child, has no place in our public discourse. No matter who uses the language. Is that so unreasonable? If during the Carter administration I had suggested Amy Carter had a face that would make a freight train take a dirt road or stop sh*t in midair, would you have pointed out that children are not responsible for their parents? Why not here? You're extraordinarily clever, but that doesn't make wrong right.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

Ron Paul is winning this debate as far as I'm concerned. Bachmann has been the most Presidential of the bunch.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

Ron Paul is winning this debate as far as I'm concerned. Bachmann has been the most Presidential of the bunch.

Alert the media, I agree with you about Bachmann. Mitt did well by not letting any of the the "little guys" get under his skin and by focusing on Deadmeat. On the other hand, IMO, Ron Paul is a blithering idiot and showed it again tonight--a modern Jeanette Rankin.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

Paul is ahead in the pop vote on this one. So far Paul 6k, Gingrich 4k, Cain 2k...Pawlenty out at 200.

If it gets that far, Ron Paul could well have my vote. The rest are soc conservatives hoping to use small government as a trojan horse.

I might even be able to stomach Bachmann. If Perry gets that far, I activate for Obama. No more cultural extremist knuckheads.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

Paul is ahead in the pop vote on this one. So far Paul 6k, Gingrich 4k, Cain 2k...Pawlenty out at 200.

If it gets that far, Ron Paul could well have my vote. The rest are soc conservatives hoping to use small government as a trojan horse.

I might even be able to stomach Bachmann. If Perry gets that far, I activate for Obama. No more cultural extremist knuckheads.

I wish we would put a stake through the heart of Iowa's pretensions at being king maker. And also get the chattering class to stop peddling this distinctly undemocratic process as being important. And I also wish we could get leaders in both parties to tell Iowa to go swimming in a hog lagoon. No offense intended, but your average Ron Paul supporter wouldn't have gotten into a boat because "God himself couldn't sink this ship." What about Deadmeat?

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

I might even be able to stomach Bachmann.

Boy, you might be legally retarded.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

I wish we would put a stake through the heart of Iowa's pretensions at being king maker. And also get the chattering class to stop peddling this distinctly undemocratic process as being important. And I also wish we could get leaders in both parties to tell Iowa to go swimming in a hog lagoon. No offense intended, but your average Ron Paul supporter wouldn't have gotten into a boat because "God himself couldn't sink this ship." What about Deadmeat?

None taken...frankly don't really know what you mean by the boat reference.

I'm just looking for pragmatism. Bachmann is just another one of the conservative ideologues.

I do not want Perry. If half of the northern states had that kind of sun, they'd be a 10x better place to live than Texas. Am in Australia with similar climate and resources to Texas...and this 'socialist' country is on absolute fire and makes the Texas economy look horrible. I and many Americans are sick of getting stuck with culturally inept Texans because of the fallacy they know something about economics.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

None taken...frankly don't really know what you mean by the boat reference.

I'm just looking for pragmatism. Bachmann is just another one of the conservative ideologues.

I do not want Perry. If half of the northern states had that kind of sun, they'd be a 10x better place to live than Texas. Am in Australia with similar climate and resources to Texas...and this 'socialist' country is on absolute fire and makes the Texas economy look horrible. I and many Americans are sick of getting stuck with culturally inept Texans because of the fallacy they know something about economics.

Titanic is the reference. "Culturally inept?" Does that mean they disagree with you? Well, just vote for Deadmeat and you'll be fine. BTW, the US economy is "horrible." I've forgotten today's talking point. Is it Bush's fault or the Tea Party's?

 

[Old Pio]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

Boy, you might be legally retarded.

I'll take The Rapists for a thousand, Alex.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

I'll take The Rapists for a thousand, Alex.

To this day, that series of bits may be the single best SNL has ever put out. At least in my lifetime.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

To this day, that series of bits may be the single best SNL has ever put out. At least in my lifetime.

They're among the best no doubt. Eddie Murphy hit some homers as Buckwheat. And Phil Hartman's "colon blow" was inspired.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaUogmewRyc

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

Titanic is the reference. "Culturally inept?" Does that mean they disagree with you?

Nope just tired of politicians who are waay culturally out of step with the country trying to enforce their opinions on everyone. And I consider a life in rural Texas out of step. We got way to much of that under Bush including talk of amending the Constitution to do so.

Frankly, depending on how things turn out...get ready for the label Bush III. And understandibly so.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

Nope just tired of politicians who are waay culturally out of step with the country trying to enforce their opinions on everyone. And I consider a life in rural Texas out of step. We got way to much of that under Bush including talk of amending the Constitution to do so.

Frankly, depending on how things turn out...get ready for the label Bush III. And understandibly so.

So now left wing bigotry is geographic, too. And don't all politicians "try to enforce their opinions on everyone?" It's just when you agree with those opinions, then it's called "we are the ones we've been waiting for," or "hope and change" or some other bullsh*t. You have any first hand experience in Texes, or are you relying on your prejudices?

I'm sure Deadmeat's campaign will welcome any suggestions you may have to offer.