2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

[bronconick]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

I can't quite wrap my head around how Sharia law could creep into the US, but the UK probably thought the same thing 30 years ago and it is definitely gaining some traction there - especially in the areas of family law, etc. So, while I don't lie awake at nights worrying about Sharia law, it is (always) worth remaining vigilant to ensure that our country remains true to its values of equality under the law and neutrality toward all religions (including atheism). Anyone who exploits Sharia law as a scare tactic to gain political points is as disgusting to me as those who would actually impose it.

I think we're already pre-set to oppose any kind of religion in our laws. I wonder if England having a "State Religion" made it easier to push Islamic law in areas where Muslims are a majority.

We've had decades of rulings where laws have been struck down because of their Christian tone or basis in the Bible. All those years of precedents are going to fall on any kind of Sharia law passed like a ton of bricks.

 

[Foxton]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

I can't quite wrap my head around how Sharia law could creep into the US, but the UK probably thought the same thing 30 years ago and it is definitely gaining some traction there - especially in the areas of family law, etc. So, while I don't lie awake at nights worrying about Sharia law, it is (always) worth remaining vigilant to ensure that our country remains true to its values of equality under the law and neutrality toward all religions (including atheism). Anyone who exploits Sharia law as a scare tactic to gain political points is as disgusting to me as those who would actually impose it.

Save your donations to the BNP, they're either in or will be in bankruptcy soon.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/5eBT6OSr1TI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

(Oh and the lack of religion is not a religion. Saying it is, is like saying how not collecting stamps is a hobby.)

 

[LynahFan]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

Save your donations to the BNP, they're either in or will be in bankruptcy soon.

Not sure what you're going for here. BNP is a major voice against establishment (or even tolerance) of Sharia law in the UK - as a strident atheist, I assume you are in agreement with that position, yes?

(Oh and the lack of religion is not a religion. Saying it is, is like saying how not collecting stamps is a hobby.)

Potato Potahto. Atheism is a religious belief, and therefore our government should respect and tolerate it exactly equally to any other religious belief.

 

[geezer]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

(Oh and the lack of religion is not a religion. Saying it is, is like saying how not collecting stamps is a hobby.)

I disagree. Some of the most evangelical, fervent "believers" I know are pushing atheism. I realize it depends on how you define religion, but many of these people are committed to an incredible degree in their "faith". If "religion" requires a god, you could name it science.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

I disagree. Some of the most evangelical, fervent "believers" I know are pushing atheism. I realize it depends on how you define religion, but many of these people are committed to an incredible degree in their "faith". If "religion" requires a god, you could name it science.

Wow. So science and religion are now the same thing? No. They're not the same thing. Not even close. Atheism and science are not the same thing either. You're way off base here.

 

[geezer]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

Wow. So science and religion are now the same thing? No. They're not the same thing. Not even close. Atheism and science are not the same thing either. You're way off base here.

I agree with you. But certain scholarly acquaintances of mine really are that way.

 

[duper]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

if you find this amazing, you need to get out more. try seeing a beheading of a woman for adultery in Saudi Arabia - its free entertainment in the public square. be black and travel to Russia. try blogging this stuff in China. how about sex with a 8 year old in Thailand? gay in a Muslim country? have fun.

What I find amazing is that you seem to believe that we are one Secretary of State nomination away from seeing that here. I am well aware of how much better things are in the US than in some other places, get the F off your high horse. I say WOW because you obviously have NO faith in the Constitution or the American system to think that we are so frail and so close to totally dismissing every single thing we stand for as a nation.

 

[duper]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

I have had an ongoing conversation with a friend about whether science is a religion for about 10 years. I'm not a scholar by any stretch, but to me a religion not only explains the natural world, but it also gives a set of values by which to live everyday life. Science doesn't do that. (And don't tell me about that scientific method or some such nonsense, because that doesn't govern everyday life.)

And yes, some atheists are a bit dogmatic in their atheism, but just as I will swear up and down that most Christians don't believe in strict interpretationism (you just don't realize it because most Christians don't proselytize) most atheists are not dogmatic about it, but some people may not realize it because most atheists just quietly go about their lives, just like most religious people do. As someone said, to say that atheism is a religion is a bit like saying NOT collecting stamps is a hobby. I'll bet that somewhere out there, some idiot makes a big stink about how HE doesn't collect stamps, and stamp collectors are nerds, etc. That guy has a hobby. The rest of us non-collectors don't.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

What I find amazing is that you seem to believe that we are one Secretary of State nomination away from seeing that here. I am well aware of how much better things are in the US than in some other places, get the F off your high horse. I say WOW because you obviously have NO faith in the Constitution or the American system to think that we are so frail and so close to totally dismissing every single thing we stand for as a nation.

Faith in the Constitution.

This is why it's hard to have faith in it.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/seven-ways-rick-perry-wants-change-constitution-131634517.html

Our political leaders don't. The very people that preach about that document on a daily basis are also the very people that want it to change in very dramatic ways and find issue with so many parts of it.

 

[huskyfan]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

The NY Times? Really? Care to cite an article?

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/03/opinion/dont-fear-islamic-law-in-america.html?scp=2&sq=shariah%20law&st=cse

 

[bronconick]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

Faith in the Constitution.

This is why it's hard to have faith in it.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/seven-ways-rick-perry-wants-change-constitution-131634517.html

Our political leaders don't. The very people that preach about that document on a daily basis are also the very people that want it to change in very dramatic ways and find issue with so many parts of it.

So, you seriously think that if elected, Perry will manage 7 amendments to the Constitution after 17 in 228 years?

 

[huskyfan]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

What I find amazing is that you seem to believe that we are one Secretary of State nomination away from seeing that here. I am well aware of how much better things are in the US than in some other places, get the F off your high horse. I say WOW because you obviously have NO faith in the Constitution or the American system to think that we are so frail and so close to totally dismissing every single thing we stand for as a nation.

http://blog.heritage.org/2010/09/02/the-real-impact-of-sharia-law-in-america/

yeah yeah I know its a right wing site, but the case is chilling.

 

[geezer]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

I have had an ongoing conversation with a friend about whether science is a religion for about 10 years. I'm not a scholar by any stretch, but to me a religion not only explains the natural world, but it also gives a set of values by which to live everyday life. Science doesn't do that. (And don't tell me about that scientific method or some such nonsense, because that doesn't govern everyday life.)

And yes, some atheists are a bit dogmatic in their atheism, but just as I will swear up and down that most Christians don't believe in strict interpretationism (you just don't realize it because most Christians don't proselytize) most atheists are not dogmatic about it, but some people may not realize it because most atheists just quietly go about their lives, just like most religious people do. As someone said, to say that atheism is a religion is a bit like saying NOT collecting stamps is a hobby. I'll bet that somewhere out there, some idiot makes a big stink about how HE doesn't collect stamps, and stamp collectors are nerds, etc. That guy has a hobby. The rest of us non-collectors don't.

One of the smartest people I know calls himself agnostic. We get along fine, and I have a lot of respect for his work and his life. The people I'm talking about think that the very fact that science exists invalidates every traditional religion (I could say "every other religion"). In that way, science is no different in its rigidity than what those people are trying to take down.
I think of the sciences as a useful way of interacting with and understanding aspects of God's creation; not something that disproves it. You can show that a certain tree is brown and green, but that doesn't mean the whole isn't still a tree.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

So, you seriously think that if elected, Perry will manage 7 amendments to the Constitution after 17 in 228 years?

If California can ban gay marriage in their Constitution then I think he can get an amendment passed, yes. All 7? No. But, I think you have to acknowledge that the court has turned more conservative over the last 10 years as a direct result of the religous rights power in the Republican party. I live in one of the most progressive states in the union and we're going to vote on banning gay marriage and adding it to our Constitution. Changing the Constitution in the "new" conservative way to get what they want since they've been unable to get it through legislation. I'd say it's going to take some time but I'm willing to be if things continue in the trajectory they have that all 7 of those will come up for ratification by the States in the next 50-100 years.

 

[geezer]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

http://blog.heritage.org/2010/09/02/the-real-impact-of-sharia-law-in-america/

yeah yeah I know its a right wing site, but the case is chilling.

there's a judge that needs to be locked up. How demented could you be?

 

[unofan]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

there's a judge that needs to be locked up. How demented could you be?

That site's blocked at work, but given the date in the URL I'm going to guess that's the New Jersey judge who declined to issue a restraining order but who the media villified as though he acquitted the man of actual domestic abuse charges? Never mind that:
1) To get a restraining order, you generally need to show a likelihood of future contact. If the original conduct occured due to his religious belief that he could do something to his wife, and she was now no longer his wife, those facts could have some logical relevance.
2) Nothing the judge did would be binding on the actual criminal case for sexual assault, if there was one.
3) the judge was ultimately overturned on appeal anyway. In other words, the system worked.

But, by all means, continue the poutrage.

 

[geezer]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

That site's blocked at work, but given the date in the URL I'm going to guess that's the New Jersey judge who declined to issue a restraining order but who the media villified as though he acquitted the man of actual domestic abuse charges? Never mind that:
1) To get a restraining order, you generally need to show a likelihood of future contact. If the original conduct occured due to his religious belief that he could do something to his wife, and she was now no longer his wife, those facts could have some logical relevance.
2) Nothing the judge did would be binding on the actual criminal case for sexual assault, if there was one.
3) the judge was ultimately overturned on appeal anyway. In other words, the system worked.

But, by all means, continue the poutrage.

this is some other guy. His statement said it's fine to beat and rape your wife (she was hospitalized when he was arrested), as long as you claim it's required by your religion. I'd like to beat his head in and tell him it's required by my religion of beating evil people's heads in.

 

[Handyman]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

I am absolutely opposed to government officials who would protect Sharia Law over our own constitution and laws. What is wrong with you guys? Sharia is Hilter, Stalin and Attila the Hun wrapped in a giant holocaust for women. people are dying ... DYING ... so women are not genitally multilated, so they can drive, vote, handle money, get educated. and you would like Sharia Law introduced into the US?????!!!??? ***?

Ya know I thought you were an idiot when you wet your pants over Sarah Palin having a uterus and being on the GOP ticket...but this is a whole new level of stupid. (only to be beaten by another post of yours claiming the NY Times is trying to implement Sharia Law)

You do realize not all Muslims follow Sharia Law right? You do realize EVEN IN MUSLIM COUNTRIES they don't all do it right? But somehow, having a Muslim in the cabinet will lead to beheadings in the public square and stonings for everyone? The amount of stupidity and religious intolerance in your posts on this subject actually rivals the level of intolerance found in Sharia Law...congrats you are now the ultimate hypocrit.

 

[Foxton]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

I disagree. Some of the most evangelical, fervent "believers" I know are pushing atheism. I realize it depends on how you define religion, but many of these people are committed to an incredible degree in their "faith". If "religion" requires a god, you could name it science.

Just because people don't actively pander to your religion does not mean they are "pushing" atheism. Objecting to and correcting supernatural or natural claims that are wrong is in no way pushing a different set. Your "scholarly acquaintances" are apparently working from a flawed and incredibly narrow world view.

And I'm sorry but you have to have amazingly large blinders if you think the most evangelical people are those without a faith. Just for an example I have over 5 channels through my cable company dedicated to pushing religion. Can you name 1 that "pushes" a lack of belief? Can you name a candidate for president that doesn't bow down to xtians?

One of the smartest people I know calls himself agnostic. We get along fine, and I have a lot of respect for his work and his life. The people I'm talking about think that the very fact that science exists invalidates every traditional religion (I could say "every other religion"). In that way, science is no different in its rigidity than what those people are trying to take down.

The scientific method invalidates their claims. IE a worldwide flood with a group of animals surviving in a large wooden boat or a 6 day creation. If your religion is based off similar claims and they can be refuted by evidence then yea, your religion has been invalidated by science.

I think of the sciences as a useful way of interacting with and understanding aspects of God's creation; not something that disproves it. You can show that a certain tree is brown and green, but that doesn't mean the whole isn't still a tree.

What?

Huskyfan... ugn.

 

[geezer]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

I promise I'll never respond to Foxton again, but read my points above and then check this out:

The scientific method invalidates their claims.

exhibit A. (He's talking about "other" religions here).