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2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

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Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

I think we're already pre-set to oppose any kind of religion in our laws. I wonder if England having a "State Religion" made it easier to push Islamic law in areas where Muslims are a majority.

We've had decades of rulings where laws have been struck down because of their Christian tone or basis in the Bible. All those years of precedents are going to fall on any kind of Sharia law passed like a ton of bricks.

Half the population has issues with the word "God" being in the Pledge, the Ten Commandments get barred from courtrooms, but somehow those insidious and evil Muslims are going to make us hate all women, rape them, kill them and so on. The logic is so perfect I cant believe I missed it!

Hey didnt the Ground Zero Mosque just open up in New York...Central Park will be a haven for rapes and killings before the day is through...oh wait ;)

I thought I heard an Oman calling me to prayer yesterday but maybe it was just the Tornado siren test ;)
 
Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

Start a debate about religion and a thread is derailed faster than an 18 year-old runaway getting off the bus in LA for the first time.

Anyone else want more popcorn? Fantastic stuff everyone, keep up the good work.
 
Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

Faith in the Constitution.

This is why it's hard to have faith in it.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/seven-ways-rick-perry-wants-change-constitution-131634517.html

Our political leaders don't. The very people that preach about that document on a daily basis are also the very people that want it to change in very dramatic ways and find issue with so many parts of it.

1. Apparently he forgets that the entire point of lifetime tenure - to insulate the judiciary from political whims - is exactly why he wants to get rid of it. But whatever, go ahead and try.
2. You don't get to veto the constitution, numbnuts. Though the law of unintended consequences would be hilarious when a democratic majority congress vetos all 2nd amendment jurisprudence.
3. go ahead and try. You're an economic idiot if you believe that, but whatever.
4. So we want to make the judiciary more accountable but the Senate less so? Nice consistency, there. Other than that, I wouldn't be opposed per se. The Senate was supposed to nominally represent the states themselves, and not the people directly.
5. Economically stupid, but I could be for it if there's built in caveats for certain events (declared wars, natural disasters, and true economic recessions).
6. da derp.
7. da derp.
 
Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

Ya know I thought you were an idiot when you wet your pants over Sarah Palin having a uterus and being on the GOP ticket...but this is a whole new level of stupid. (only to be beaten by another post of yours claiming the NY Times is trying to implement Sharia Law)

You do realize not all Muslims follow Sharia Law right? You do realize EVEN IN MUSLIM COUNTRIES they don't all do it right? But somehow, having a Muslim in the cabinet will lead to beheadings in the public square and stonings for everyone? The amount of stupidity and religious intolerance in your posts on this subject actually rivals the level of intolerance found in Sharia Law...congrats you are now the ultimate hypocrit.

you bet!! as a woman I was thrilled to see a woman nominated for vice president. second time in our history. we lag far behind other Western countries in putting women into high offices.

The New York Times is not trying to implement Sharia Law. they have no power to do so. they ran an editorial supporting its use in some cases in the US.

name calling is admitting you have no reasonable points to argue.

try Wiki to read up on Sharia Law. balanced look at the good, the bad and the ugly.
 
Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

I promise I'll never respond to Foxton again, but read my points above and then check this out:

exhibit A. (He's talking about "other" religions here).
You forgot to read the rest of the paragraph where I clarified how religion can be disproved by the scientific method. Not "science" as some monolithic religious entity as you previous implied.

Considering your understanding of the subject as evidenced by your posts and that you're not reading what others are saying, not responding would be for the best.
 
Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

I have had an ongoing conversation with a friend about whether science is a religion for about 10 years. I'm not a scholar by any stretch, but to me a religion not only explains the natural world, but it also gives a set of values by which to live everyday life.
You don't need religion to have a set of morals and ethics by which to live your everyday life. Regardless of their religious belief/non-belief, the vast majority of humanity does not murder, rape, steal, or commit any other criminal acts. That tells me that most of us have an internal moral compass whether or not we are devoutly religious and that the "set of values" to which you refer comes from somewhere other than religion.
 
Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

You don't need religion to have a set of morals and ethics by which to live your everyday life. Regardless of their religious belief/non-belief, the vast majority of humanity does not murder, rape, steal, or commit any other criminal acts. That tells me that most of us have an internal moral compass whether or not we are devoutly religious and that the "set of values" to which you refer comes from somewhere other than religion.
Prison statistics on religion are rather interesting. *snicker*
 
Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

You don't need religion to have a set of morals and ethics by which to live your everyday life. Regardless of their religious belief/non-belief, the vast majority of humanity does not murder, rape, steal, or commit any other criminal acts. That tells me that most of us have an internal moral compass whether or not we are devoutly religious and that the "set of values" to which you refer comes from somewhere other than religion.
Many religions claim that this moral conscience is part of their faith.

The magical thinking part of religion is wish fulfillment -- Jesus didn't literally come back from the dead, the host does not literally become the body of Christ, there is no literal afterlife, there is no literal self-aware guiding intelligence to the universe. But religion is much more profound and interesting than that. Just because Hamlet isn't "real" doesn't mean it isn't a fascinating and moving parable of human life -- so much so that its influence is far more "real" than 99.9999% of all the events that actually historically occurred. Many of the great Bible stories are just like that (plus it's impossible to understand western culture without knowing them).
 
Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

you bet!! as a woman I was thrilled to see a woman nominated for vice president. second time in our history. we lag far behind other Western countries in putting women into high offices.
How'd you feel when she was caught writing talking points on her hand?

Found huskyfans double
<iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/YhyFtCwP6D4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
(She has ties to Anders Breivik)
 
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Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

Just because people don't actively pander to your religion does not mean they are "pushing" atheism.
You're pushing back at a point that wasn't made. Geezer didn't say that all atheists "push" atheism or even that most atheists "push" atheism, merely that some do. I'm quite certain that's true and an accurate observation.

(And FTR, on many days I am a weak atheist.)
 
Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

You forgot to read the rest of the paragraph where I clarified how religion can be disproved by the scientific method.

Guess I didn't see that one...or I would have said how its impossible to disprove a belief system via the scientific method. Its just as irrelevant as saying science doesn't exist because someone doesn't believe in it.

That tells me that most of us have an internal moral compass whether or not we are devoutly religious and that the "set of values" to which you refer comes from somewhere other than religion.

Don't know about that.

Medieval society changed significantly in the 15th/16th century from a scientific standpoint. Prior to that, nobody really thought too much about politics, medicine, astronomy, theater, history, etc. It was forbidden, not even considered or at least not a priority. But changes were highly correlated with the discovery of all the Greek work that was rediscovered via the Moors. Suddenly every single scientific and artistic discipline touched on by the Greeks was all the rage. Was it a total coincidence? I happen to think not.

Just as with Greek scientific thought, in all probability the timing of respect for the common man, social services and compassion taking off following the distribution of the Bible was not a coincidence. We do know that many more recent 'civilized' aspects of today's society such as child labor, slavery, womens sufferage and civil rights all had direct Christian influence

Although I suspect that for some reason...many won't disagree with my first point...that others will disagree with my parallel second point.
 
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Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

Just as with Greek scientific thought, in all probability the timing of respect for the common man, social services and compassion taking off following the distribution of the Bible was not a coincidence. We do know that many more recent 'civilized' aspects of today's society such as child labor, slavery, womens sufferage and civil rights all had direct Christian influence
They had influence because most people in this country are members of one of the branches of that religion. By the same token, I could argue the people opposing those things were also influenced by that religion, since there's a long record of people using religious belief to justify all manner of mistreatment of other people.
 
Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

Foxton - you don't think a few black people were thrilled to see Obama nominated and elected? even if they didn't agree with his politics? brotherhood, sisterhood.

celebrating diversity. yup, I love seeing underrepresented minorities into the process. its a good thing for us and for the US.
 
Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

Foxton - you don't think a few black people were thrilled to see Obama nominated and elected? even if they didn't agree with his politics? brotherhood, sisterhood.

celebrating diversity. yup, I love seeing underrepresented minorities into the process. its a good thing for us and for the US.
Diversity is great, except when that person being an example of diversity is just an Uncle Tom.

Are you still on the Palin bandwagon? Bachmann?
 
Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

Medieval society changed significantly in the 15th/16th century from a scientific standpoint. Prior to that, nobody really thought too much about politics, medicine, astronomy, theater, history, etc. It was forbidden, not even considered or at least not a priority. But changes were highly correlated with the discovery of all the Greek work that was rediscovered via the Moors. Suddenly every single scientific and artistic discipline touched on by the Greeks was all the rage. Was it a total coincidence? I happen to think not.
Look, this is not a knock on you, because what you wrote is chapter and verse of "history" as taught in high school and intro college survey classes, but this is nonsense. Every statement in your paragraph is drawn from the simplistic and self-congratulatory narrative constructed after the fact by anti-Catholic historians looking to stick one in the Pope's eye. Politics, medicine, astronomy, theater, history, and every other form of intellectual life was alive and well in the west from the 11th century onwards, and reached fantastic heights both in public and private life centuries before the so-called "Renaissance." In certain ways the Renaissance was actually a big step if not backwards then at least sideways, because for decades there was a slavish repetition of the (usually fragmentary, badly translated, and misunderstood) words of the Ancients that was every bit as stifling as Scriptural Adherence (which itself was far less oppressive than Victoriana depicts). The "science vs faith" dichotomy is the anachronistic imposition of a VERY modern outlook backwards against a period which knew no such distinction, and every significant scientific and cultural figure up until about 1750 would have considered it an absurdity. It's cartoon history -- it isn't real.

I'd say my religious faith is about a 1 on a 10-point scale, but bad history is still bad history. Like I said, nothing against you -- most curricula are incredibly lacking on this topic. But having read about ten thousand pages on Medieval history I can assure you there is nothing of truth either explicitly or by implication in what you've written -- you are perpetuating a mythology that all scholars have rejected for a hundred years.

If you want to read a fantastic overview of this, I recommend "Inventing the Middle Ages" by Norman Cantor. It's really a work of historiography, but it will give you a lot of information on the historians who have been working since the late 19th century to discover what was really going on in Medieval thought. It actually got me so interested that I went and read those ten thousand pages. :)
 
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Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

But seriously, who is trying to implement Sharia law?

the usual suspects, NY Times, Harold Koh, some judge in New jersey who thinks its ok to rape your wife. I wouldn't exactly call it trying to implement Sharia law.

The New York Times is not trying to implement Sharia Law. they have no power to do so. they ran an editorial supporting its use in some cases in the US.

I see nothing in that saying we should implement it, I only see an article saying that we shouldn't fear-monger it.

Got to agree with unofan. Nothing in there saying Sharia law should be implemented...anywhere. Just an op-ed opposing fear-mongering derp.

Even if it DID support the implementation of Sharia law...so what?! It's a friggin' op-ed piece. God/Allah/FSM forbid a newspaper publish an opinion piece with an unpopular viewpoint.
 
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