2011 NCAA Selection Show Thread

[Bakunin]

Re: 2011 NCAA Selection Show Thread

The format is what it is, everyone knows the rules ahead of time. Someone has to pay to host these regionals.

Why doesn't BC put in a bid? The school has money, and the team is good enough often enough to not pose much of a risk of missing the tournament should they land a regional five years down the line.

 

[SteveF]

Re: 2011 NCAA Selection Show Thread

Why doesn't BC put in a bid? The school has money, and the team is good enough often enough to not pose much of a risk of missing the tournament should they land a regional five years down the line.

the unofficial word is the money goes to hosting b-ball regionals. which is funny since that team is always in danger of missing the dance.

i think its all much ado about nothing. a team with true national title aspirations shouldn't be afraid of going anywhere to play anyone. the people who whine and complain are the people who know its only a matter of time before their team gets knocked out and are hoping for a few moral victories along the way.

if BC gets beat, more power to the team that does it. i hope they go on to win it all.

 

[FiveHole12]

Re: 2011 NCAA Selection Show Thread

The West regional is going to be very entertaining. Tickets are only $39 for the whole session in an attempt to boost attendance. UNO and Michigan have a history and split at UM this season. Haven't seen BC play but I know CC is a good team so that should be a good game as well.

If you watched last season's Frozen Four, you've seen BC play. Same team, minus the 3rd line and a d-man.

 

[Bakunin]

Re: 2011 NCAA Selection Show Thread

the people who whine and complain are the people who know its only a matter of time before their team gets knocked out and are hoping for a few moral victories along the way.

Now that the sites are reasonably neutral, I'd agree with this sentiment. In the past when they were handing out bids to campus sites, it was a different story (just look at home/road records - in the case of BC this season, they've lost seven games, and six of those losses occurred on the road).

if BC gets beat, more power to the team that does it. i hope they go on to win it all.

Don't worry, your regional isn't being played at Yost; instead, it'll be in a 1/4 full Scottrade Center in the toilet of the middle of the country.

 

[sbkbghockey]

Re: 2011 NCAA Selection Show Thread

Yes, it would be, and is. Having a Regional in an NHL rink is an aberration, and one that I think that the Scottrade Center will regret. I was shocked that they even put in a bid for a regional. You have not only the fact that it will probably be a monetary disaster, but also the NCAA regulations regarding signage, beer sales etc.

Blame that on the Saint Louis Sports Commission. Although they say their mission is to attract sport events to St. Louis and the region. It's really just to St. Louis because the neighboring suburban St. Charles County has the 9,000 seat Family Arena; compared to the Scottrade Center which seats a little over 17,000 for ice hockey. St. Charles Family Arena should have been used for the 2011 Ice Breaker Tournament, 2012 Ice Breaker Tournament (before the Sports Commission decided to give it to Grand Forks), and for the West Regional. Still provides an economic boost to St. Louis and the region and puts the events in a smaller facility for a better fan experience and atmosphere.

 

[J.D.]

Re: 2011 NCAA Selection Show Thread

A few head-scratchers this year. Denver and North Dakota in the same regional bracket, Boston College has to head to St. Louis and UNH and Merrimack as no.2 and 4 seeds play about an hour from school while no. 1 seed Miami has to take a plane to get to their regional.

Not sure how the seedings work I just thought that was kind of interesting.

1. Bracket integrity for #2 overall UND vs. #7 overall Denver
2. Yale is the host in Bridgeport, so they are automatically the #1 there. UNH was a #4 and is hosting in Manchester. The NCAA doesn't want conference matchups in the first round, so BC had to go west.
3. Because BC had to go west, Miami had to come east.

Unless they figure a way to put the Blues in that bracket, attendance in St Louis will be a black hole.

Would have been this way regardless of what they did though.

LOL!!! I love it. The BC guy says stop whining to the UND guy, but then continues to whine himself. I love it. Poor BC....

Turd, the guy you're referring to on here is a BU fan.

I don't recall BU fans complaining all the times they've gotten to play in Worcester because they were hosting.

Wait, why would BU fans complain about this?

Why doesn't BC put in a bid? The school has money, and the team is good enough often enough to not pose much of a risk of missing the tournament should they land a regional five years down the line.

I guess Worcester would be the ideal place for BC to host, but I'm pretty sure the reason BU doesn't host there anymore is because Worcester wanted it to be associated with a local school...like Holy Cross. So, where would BC host? I don't know how the bid process works anyway. Sure would be nice to host...

the unofficial word is the money goes to hosting b-ball regionals. which is funny since that team is always in danger of missing the dance.

True, but whether or not BC makes it is irrelevant really because a host school can't play at their own site. Anyway, I do wonder how much BC makes off hosting...

Blame that on the Saint Louis Sports Commission. Although they say their mission is to attract sport events to St. Louis and the region. It's really just to St. Louis because the neighboring suburban St. Charles County has the 9,000 seat Family Arena; compared to the Scottrade Center which seats a little over 17,000 for ice hockey. St. Charles Family Arena should have been used for the 2011 Ice Breaker Tournament, 2012 Ice Breaker Tournament (before the Sports Commission decided to give it to Grand Forks), and for the West Regional. Still provides an economic boost to St. Louis and the region and puts the events in a smaller facility for a better fan experience and atmosphere.

I thought the Scottrade Center holds over 19,000?

 

[Bomber]

Re: 2011 NCAA Selection Show Thread

John Powers summed up my feelings on this perfectly.

BC to St. Louis is Short-sighted

 

[chickod]

Re: 2011 NCAA Selection Show Thread

Wait, why would BU fans complain about this?

First of all, I'm not "complaining." I'm just expressing my opinion that the format could be improved. Actually, if you read the article mentioned here you will understand what I was saying (he's a writer so he expressed it more eloquently than I could)

BC to St. Louis is Short-sighted

There's really nothing more to say after that...Amen.

 

[pgv]

Re: 2011 NCAA Selection Show Thread

First of all, I'm not "complaining." I'm just expressing my opinion that the format could be improved. Actually, if you read the article mentioned here you will understand what I was saying (he's a writer so he expressed it more eloquently than I could)

BC to St. Louis is Short-sighted

There's really nothing more to say after that...Amen.

Another piece of misinformation diseminated from Morrissey Boulevard...for Powers, (another uninformed Globe writer,) extrapolates that had BC been in Manchester they would not have had to play North Dakota in the semi-finals, which any college hockey fan with rudimentary knowledge knows is not true.

 

[Bomber]

Re: 2011 NCAA Selection Show Thread

Another piece of misinformation diseminated from Morrissey Boulevard...for Powers, (another uninformed Globe writer,) extrapolates that had BC been in Manchester they would not have had to play North Dakota in the semi-finals, which any college hockey fan with rudimentary knowledge knows is not true.

Whatever on that. To me, it's all about the 2nd best team in the tournament (I'd argue the best, but the rankings say otherwise.) having to get on a plane while a team that limped into the tournament gets a home game. That's the problem.

 

[pgv]

Re: 2011 NCAA Selection Show Thread

Whatever on that. To me, it's all about the 2nd best team in the tournament (I'd argue the best, but the rankings say otherwise.) having to get on a plane while a team that limped into the tournament gets a home game. That's the problem.

I don't disagree with you on your broader point. Hey even though I'm a UNH guy I truly feel for BC. But I hate the whole system - 4 regionals instead of 2 which results in empty seats, the committee's laziness which again this year could result in a pair of rematches from conference tourney weekend, etc.

 

[johnk]

Re: 2011 NCAA Selection Show Thread

The only way to fix the majority of these problems (attendance, travel, sending top seeds to far) is to have 2 sites with 8 teams for 3 days. Also would save the NC$$ some money.

 

[J.D.]

Re: 2011 NCAA Selection Show Thread

First of all, I'm not "complaining." I'm just expressing my opinion that the format could be improved. Actually, if you read the article mentioned here you will understand what I was saying (he's a writer so he expressed it more eloquently than I could)

BC to St. Louis is Short-sighted

There's really nothing more to say after that...Amen.

I'm just saying if you're a host school...why would you complain? You have it made. It's the non-hosting schools who need to step up to the plate and help get the process changed.

I don't disagree with you on your broader point. Hey even though I'm a UNH guy I truly feel for BC. But I hate the whole system - 4 regionals instead of 2 which results in empty seats, the committee's laziness which again this year could result in a pair of rematches from conference tourney weekend, etc.

I wouldn't say putting #2 UND with #7 Denver lazy. Now, if UND was #1 and DU was #5 and they still put them together? Definitely "lazy".

The only way to fix the majority of these problems (attendance, travel, sending top seeds to far) is to have 2 sites with 8 teams for 3 days. Also would save the NC$$ some money.

What would your format be? 4 games in one day as a QF round? I don't know if that's feasible.

 

[BCeagle]

Re: 2011 NCAA Selection Show Thread

John Powers summed up my feelings on this perfectly.

BC to St. Louis is Short-sighted

Maybe in the short term it blows but BC may overcome that bracket in the long run. They're playing well with Kreider returning to practice. If GDF decides to have BC host you wouldn't have that problem but as it is BC will have to deal with it and hopefully make it to the Frozen Four to represent HE.

 

[johnk]

Re: 2011 NCAA Selection Show Thread

What would your format be? 4 games in one day as a QF round? I don't know if that's feasible.

3 days. Day 1 2 vs 7 & 3 vs 6
Day 2 1 vs 8 & 4 vs 5
Day 3 Day 1 winners early & Day 2 late

If you did Fri 12:30 & 3:30 for one site and 6:30 & 9:30 for the other site & followed those times for the next 2 days you would be able to televise all 12 game pretty easily.

 

[Humanoid]

Re: 2011 NCAA Selection Show Thread

I don't know what points have been made yet, so I'm going to weigh in with a couple of general thoughts and let everyone have at them:

1) I like using math to get to the teams that qualify, but I don't like using it as the be-all-end-all. Dartmouth finishes ahead of RPI in the ECAC standings, goes deeper into the playoffs, and RPI gets in instead of the Green? That's bad. RPI has no quality OOC wins, and they were eliminated in the first round of the playoffs for the second consecutive year by one of the league's worst teams. I would take Dartmouth over RPI for another ECAC team, or even BU, just on the basis that BU at least played Notre Dame (in the Shillelagh Tournament) and not Bentley.

2) As a BC supporter, I'm a little peeved by the way the hosting is done. I understand contractual obligations, but this would have never happened int he NCAA basketball tournament, nor would it have happened in the baseball tournament. Home seeds are given based upon merit in baseball, and basketball uses a different formula, even if you are a host school. UNH as a 4 seed pushes Miami into a no-win situation. Two #2 seeds were completely screwed by a #4 seed, who gets to play at home. That's not right, and something needs to be done.

3) I really like the East regional in Bridgeport. Well done in setting that one up. I like that Yale might play Union again, but at the same time they draw an Air Force team they lost to during the season. The mathematics got that one right.

4) The Northeast regional, thanks to the math, might have become the toughest regional. Merrimack is a great team, Notre Dame is very competitive, UNH finished 2nd in the conference and very nearly could have won the whole show, and Miami is well..Miami.

Ok those are my points. Have at them. I'm sure RPI fans will hammer me relentlessly for saying they don't belong, but hopefully of you agree.

 

[HockeyMan2000]

Re: 2011 NCAA Selection Show Thread

Just because we all know ahead of time what the NCAA's processes are for the regionals doesn't make them right.

IMO, and I've written this the last few years, the NCAA needs to reform the regional format. If they can't sell enough tickets for the only pre-Frozen Four round of NCAA playoffs without having to rig the system so that a team that's hosting stays put in order to sell more seats, then it's probably time to re-examine what they're doing. The attendance figures for the regionals has been generally mediocre for some time -- at least the exceptions seem to be dwarfed by the lack of success they've had in certain venues and with certain teams over the last 10 years I'm guessing (if not longer).

I think they need to go back to 2 sites, spread over an additional day if need be. Don't contract the field, but simply have an East and West regional. You'd get more people going because they'll be seeing more teams in that one spot, it'd be more of an "event" than some of the poorly-attended regional sites currently are (with atmosphere that's dead as a doornail), and would also eliminate these scenarios where a hosting school gets favorable treatment not because their on-ice play warrants it but rather because they paid to host the event. UNH certainly isn't the only one that's created this mess but it's ridiculous a #4 seed -- one of the "last teams in" so to speak -- ends up dictating where teams are supposed to play.

It's almost like extortion -- we put up the money, so we get favorable treatment in being selected to play there, even if the better team in the conference ought to be there instead.

And they also screwed college hockey fans over in general by putting BC and ND together so that they'd play in the semi-final round, but that's a whole other matter. Guaranteed if that match-up happens and the winner plays Yale, that semi-final game will be the national title game IMO.

 

[bostonewe]

Re: 2011 NCAA Selection Show Thread

BC, UNH, and BU have had a stranglehold on the NE regionals because they are usually the in NCAA's, and therefore in the regional they host. There will be 7500+ UNH fans in MHT, but didn't even get half that in Amherst which is a just a three-hour drive. Most of you Western folks can do that in your sleep but out here, it's an overnight trip and most fans would not put up the cash required for food/gas/lodging. Even if BC was in the regional sans UNH, attendance will still be very good as the BC folks would drive the 1-1.5 hours up from Boston, depending on traffic. I can almost guarantee if the regional was Miami/Northeastern, UND/Merrimack at MHT, attendance would be a lot difference. They would fill about half the barn but I don't think it would be close to a sellout or a sea of white and blue.

I'm not 100%, but I was pretty sure that Holy Cross (of all teams) had a stranglehold on the bids in Worcester at the moment. I'm pretty sure BU was the host in 2006, but I'm not sure that they have been since then. (Google shows Holy Cross has hosted in '08, '10, and will host in '12. BU hosted in '06. I can't find the answer for 2003. Doesn't seem like much of a stranglehold.)

I have to imagine the 77$ tickets with gas being 3.50+/gallon will deter some people from coming. Not sure how many, but I'm sure it will have some impact.

 

[CLS]

Re: 2011 NCAA Selection Show Thread

3 days. Day 1 2 vs 7 & 3 vs 6
Day 2 1 vs 8 & 4 vs 5
Day 3 Day 1 winners early & Day 2 late

If you did Fri 12:30 & 3:30 for one site and 6:30 & 9:30 for the other site & followed those times for the next 2 days you would be able to televise all 12 game pretty easily.

Better than four games in one day, but not without problems. Depending on what days you pick, fans will have to travel on Wednesday or Monday, and fans of the Day 1 winners have a dead day in the middle. Folks are willing to do that for the FF, but not as likely for the Regionals, particularly since you have to make travel plans on very short notice.

Regarding BC getting sent to St. Louis, I have to believe that if they got sent to Manchester to play UNH, the complaining would be even louder (and IMO, more legitimate). And if you didn't guarantee the host school placement, you'd have trouble getting schools to sponsor Regionals. Would UNH sponsor a Regional if they might get shipped to Green Bay or St. Louis? Would the Verizon Center want to have a regional if they had to not only take the risk that UNH might not make the tournament, but also that they might get shipped out?

 

[johnk]

Re: 2011 NCAA Selection Show Thread

I don't know what points have been made yet, so I'm going to weigh in with a couple of general thoughts and let everyone have at them:

1) I like using math to get to the teams that qualify, but I don't like using it as the be-all-end-all. Dartmouth finishes ahead of RPI in the ECAC standings, goes deeper into the playoffs, and RPI gets in instead of the Green? That's bad. RPI has no quality OOC wins, and they were eliminated in the first round of the playoffs for the second consecutive year by one of the league's worst teams. I would take Dartmouth over RPI for another ECAC team, or even BU, just on the basis that BU at least played Notre Dame (in the Shillelagh Tournament) and not Bentley.

2) As a BC supporter, I'm a little peeved by the way the hosting is done. I understand contractual obligations, but this would have never happened int he NCAA basketball tournament, nor would it have happened in the baseball tournament. Home seeds are given based upon merit in baseball, and basketball uses a different formula, even if you are a host school. UNH as a 4 seed pushes Miami into a no-win situation. Two #2 seeds were completely screwed by a #4 seed, who gets to play at home. That's not right, and something needs to be done.

3) I really like the East regional in Bridgeport. Well done in setting that one up. I like that Yale might play Union again, but at the same time they draw an Air Force team they lost to during the season. The mathematics got that one right.

4) The Northeast regional, thanks to the math, might have become the toughest regional. Merrimack is a great team, Notre Dame is very competitive, UNH finished 2nd in the conference and very nearly could have won the whole show, and Miami is well..Miami.

Ok those are my points. Have at them. I'm sure RPI fans will hammer me relentlessly for saying they don't belong, but hopefully of you agree.

RPI fan and I see your points but on the other hand as far as Dartmouth is concerned they also play an awful non league schedule. They were 0-2 vs RPI. RPI has a win over number 1 Yale and also has a win against BU. If Dartmouth didnt go 0-5 vs Yale & RPI they would have been in instead of RPI. The numbers don't consider how you finish, they look at the whole body of work.

BU Has 1 quality non league win against ND and was 0-3-1 against the ECAC playing Brown twice, Harvard and RPI.