2011 NCAA Selection Show Thread

[Priceless]

Re: 2011 NCAA Selection Show Thread

I'm not 100%, but I was pretty sure that Holy Cross (of all teams) had a stranglehold on the bids in Worcester at the moment. I'm pretty sure BU was the host in 2006, but I'm not sure that they have been since then. (Google shows Holy Cross has hosted in '08, '10, and will host in '12. BU hosted in '06. I can't find the answer for 2003. Doesn't seem like much of a stranglehold.)

I have to imagine the 77$ tickets with gas being 3.50+/gallon will deter some people from coming. Not sure how many, but I'm sure it will have some impact.

The $75 ticket doesn't help (becomes $87 if you buy online). The $3.50 gas doesn't matter to me since I don't drive but why is there no bus from Durham to Manchester?? I know Barry Melrose thinks its walking distance but I don't have three days to hike across New Hampshire.

 

[johnk]

Re: 2011 NCAA Selection Show Thread

Example of how things might have looked with 2 sites and some attendance tweaking this year:

East: Day 1 (1) Yale vs (16)Airforce
(8)Union vs (9)UMD

Day 2 (3)BC vs (15)RPI
(6)Merrimack vs (11) ND

West: Day 1 (2) UND vs (13) UNH
(7) Denver vs (10) Western Mich

Day 2 (4) Miami vs (14) CC
(5) Mich vs (12) UNO

Only danger here is that if all the top seeds win than you would have 4 conference match-ups to go to Frozen Four instead of only 2 now. Sure it could be further tweaked but if these 2 Super Regionals were to be held somewhere in New England and the other in Mich/Minn or other Midwest site I think it would be better than what we have now.

 

[bostonewe]

Re: 2011 NCAA Selection Show Thread

The $75 ticket doesn't help (becomes $87 if you buy online). The $3.50 gas doesn't matter to me since I don't drive but why is there no bus from Durham to Manchester?? I know Barry Melrose thinks its walking distance but I don't have three days to hike across New Hampshire.

I was trying to think of solutions to that predicament. You could take the train to Boston and a bus to Manchester (but you'd have to go from North Station to South Station). Is there any bus from Dover or Exeter? Edit - it looks like you can take the Mermaid? bus from Portland to Manchester. It might leave you at Manchester Airport and there appears to be transportation to downtown from there (or you might be able to get a poster to pick you up, I'll be in Western Mass visiting my parents or I would offer).

 

[Alton]

Re: 2011 NCAA Selection Show Thread

3 days. Day 1 2 vs 7 & 3 vs 6
Day 2 1 vs 8 & 4 vs 5
Day 3 Day 1 winners early & Day 2 late

If you did Fri 12:30 & 3:30 for one site and 6:30 & 9:30 for the other site & followed those times for the next 2 days you would be able to televise all 12 game pretty easily.

This is a seriously bad idea. (1) Ice time demands would be ridiculous--teams get 1.5 hours ice time each the day before a game and the day between games, and 1 hour each the morning before a game, plus you have an absolute minimum of 6 hours of ice time taken by the actual games each day. (2) Fans don't get on planes to fly to regionals--fans not within driving distance don't go. Eliminating 2 regionals means fewer fans within driving distance of the regional. (3) How much do you charge for tickets? If it's still $50 for the entire regional, the fans who show up don't even come close to paying the bills. If it increases, the casual fan will say that they aren't paying $75-$100/person to watch their team play one or maybe 2 games. More teams at a site simply will not attract more fans to the games. (4) Hockey at 12:30 pm? Really? (5) This would cost the NCAA money, not save it, because more teams would have to fly since there are fewer opportunities to keep teams close to home.

Let's look at a specific case: the St. Louis Regional. Would more people show up for the BC-CC game if it were an 8-team regional instead of 4? If you think the answer is "yes," who are these extra fans? Work prevents me from attending the regional this year, although I have attended probably 12 regionals in the last 20 years. If the regionals were 8-team instead of 4-team, that number would not be any higher, and might be a little lower because of work commitments.

Instead of 2 8-team regionals, the ideal, in terms of attendance, would be 8 2-team regionals. If we had that, only 5 teams would have to fly to their regional this weekend, and only 8 would need to stay in hotel rooms. Maybe have 2 neutral-site quarterfinal doubleheaders like they do in men's lacrosse.

 

[pgv]

Re: 2011 NCAA Selection Show Thread

II wouldn't say putting #2 UND with #7 Denver lazy.

I know that matching #2 and #7 is ideal in the "bracket integrity" world, but if bracket integrity is so **** important than the #5-12 and #6-11 matchups shouldn't have been flipped, especially when that move creates two opportunites for rematches of games that took place last weekend...(yes, yes, I know why they did it but that still doesn't make it right.) My problem with bracket integrity is that it is so inconsistently applied. Nobody seems to have a problem with essentially flipping the 5 and 6 seeds and perverting the bracket, yet swapping #12 and #13, which could have rectified the major inequities is seen as cataclysmic. (Once again, yes, yes, I know that "bands" are sacrosanct.)

What I find the most offensive are the comments of the committee chair, who seems to revel in the fact that the member's hands are tied, so that in essence they function merely as robots. He actually admits to not watching a lot of college hockey games from other parts of the country. What a fraud. Have some frickin pride, or let somebody else to the job.

 

[J.D.]

Re: 2011 NCAA Selection Show Thread

3 days. Day 1 2 vs 7 & 3 vs 6
Day 2 1 vs 8 & 4 vs 5
Day 3 Day 1 winners early & Day 2 late

If you did Fri 12:30 & 3:30 for one site and 6:30 & 9:30 for the other site & followed those times for the next 2 days you would be able to televise all 12 game pretty easily.

My bad, I forgot two teams would be advancing instead of one...

I don't know what points have been made yet, so I'm going to weigh in with a couple of general thoughts and let everyone have at them:

1) I like using math to get to the teams that qualify, but I don't like using it as the be-all-end-all. Dartmouth finishes ahead of RPI in the ECAC standings, goes deeper into the playoffs, and RPI gets in instead of the Green? That's bad. RPI has no quality OOC wins, and they were eliminated in the first round of the playoffs for the second consecutive year by one of the league's worst teams. I would take Dartmouth over RPI for another ECAC team, or even BU, just on the basis that BU at least played Notre Dame (in the Shillelagh Tournament) and not Bentley.

2) As a BC supporter, I'm a little peeved by the way the hosting is done. I understand contractual obligations, but this would have never happened int he NCAA basketball tournament, nor would it have happened in the baseball tournament. Home seeds are given based upon merit in baseball, and basketball uses a different formula, even if you are a host school. UNH as a 4 seed pushes Miami into a no-win situation. Two #2 seeds were completely screwed by a #4 seed, who gets to play at home. That's not right, and something needs to be done.

1. I agree with you
2. I don't agree that the #2 seeds were screwed. You're assuming UNH will beat Miami simply because the game is in the state of New Hampshire. And it's not like Merrimack is that far from Manchester. Same goes for Bridgeport. Isn't Union within driving distance?

 

[J.D.]

Re: 2011 NCAA Selection Show Thread

And they also screwed college hockey fans over in general by putting BC and ND together so that they'd play in the semi-final round, but that's a whole other matter. Guaranteed if that match-up happens and the winner plays Yale, that semi-final game will be the national title game IMO.

I happen to agree that BC and North Dakota are the two best teams entering the tournament, but the committee really didn't have a choice here as they set up the bracket so that #1 would play #4 in the PWR should all four #1 seeds advance.

Let's look at a specific case: the St. Louis Regional. Would more people show up for the BC-CC game if it were an 8-team regional instead of 4? If you think the answer is "yes," who are these extra fans?

Wouldn't it depend on the teams involved? For example, if you had Miami, North Dakota, Michigan and Nebraska-Omaha all there instead of just UNO and Michigan...attendance would be better.

I know that matching #2 and #7 is ideal in the "bracket integrity" world, but if bracket integrity is so **** important than the #5-12 and #6-11 matchups shouldn't have been flipped, especially when that move creates two opportunites for rematches of games that took place last weekend...(yes, yes, I know why they did it but that still doesn't make it right.) My problem with bracket integrity is that it is so inconsistently applied. Nobody seems to have a problem with essentially flipping the 5 and 6 seeds and perverting the bracket, yet swapping #12 and #13, which could have rectified the major inequities is seen as cataclysmic. (Once again, yes, yes, I know that "bands" are sacrosanct.)

Michigan and Merrimack were basically tied. At that point, it made complete sense to put Michigan in St. Louis and Merrimack in Manchester.

 

[Alton]

Re: 2011 NCAA Selection Show Thread

Example of the men's lacrosse-style format of 8 2-team regionals--

WEEKEND #1
Colorado College at #1 Yale
Notre Dame at #2 North Dakota
Rensselaer at #3 Boston College
Nebraska-Omaha at #4 Miami
Minnesota-Duluth at #5 Michigan
Western Michigan at #6 Merrimack
Air Force at #7 Denver
New Hampshire at #8 Union

WEEKEND #2
West Quarterfinals at St Louis, MO (Saturday):
North Dakota/NDame winner vs Denver/AFA winner
Miami/UNO winner vs Michigan/UMD winner

East Quarterfinals at Manchester, NH (Sunday):
Boston College/RPI winner vs Merrimack/WMU winner
Yale/CC winner vs Union/UNH winner

The 8 regionals could be single-elimination or best-of-3; the quarterfinals should be single-elimination. I am following the lacrosse format, which requires that the quarterfinals match up 1-8, 2-7, 3-6, 4-5, but the first round is constructed to avoid intraconference matchups first, minimize flights second and preserve seeding third.

 

[Humanoid]

Re: 2011 NCAA Selection Show Thread

My bad, I forgot two teams would be advancing instead of one...



1. I agree with you
2. I don't agree that the #2 seeds were screwed. You're assuming UNH will beat Miami simply because the game is in the state of New Hampshire. And it's not like Merrimack is that far from Manchester. Same goes for Bridgeport. Isn't Union within driving distance?

Without looking at distances, Union is within driving ranges of both areas - Albany is a nice centralized location I'm assumign to both Manch and Bridge.

I am assuming UNH will beat Miami, which is an err on my part. I just don't agree with Miami being forced into that scenario. They actually get tehs haft either way since St. Louis isn't exactly a short drive from Ohio haha.

 

[Priceless]

Re: 2011 NCAA Selection Show Thread

I was trying to think of solutions to that predicament. You could take the train to Boston and a bus to Manchester (but you'd have to go from North Station to South Station). Is there any bus from Dover or Exeter? Edit - it looks like you can take the Mermaid? bus from Portland to Manchester. It might leave you at Manchester Airport and there appears to be transportation to downtown from there (or you might be able to get a poster to pick you up, I'll be in Western Mass visiting my parents or I would offer).

Thanks, but I'll watch from my couch.

 

[Bakunin]

Re: 2011 NCAA Selection Show Thread

(2) Fans don't get on planes to fly to regionals--fans not within driving distance don't go

I flew to the regional in Denver in '07.

 

[thecomicbookguy]

Re: 2011 NCAA Selection Show Thread

2. I don't agree that the #2 seeds were screwed. You're assuming UNH will beat Miami simply because the game is in the state of New Hampshire. And it's not like Merrimack is that far from Manchester. Same goes for Bridgeport. Isn't Union within driving distance?

Merrimack is about the same distance from Manch as UNH. And, if you're coming from campus, the drive from MC to Manch is more straightforward, and possibly quicker.

Just because we all know ahead of time what the NCAA's processes are for the regionals doesn't make them right.

True, but the people complaining/whining about it got old back in 2003. All the schools involved know the process, which means they have opportunities to take actions to ensure they don't fall vicitim to the pitfalls before they're ever in this position. BC could have hosted a regional in one of these years. Or, more facetiously, they could have let UNH win a couple of games, and bumped them up to a 3-seed.

 

[chickod]

Re: 2011 NCAA Selection Show Thread

Merrimack is about the same distance from Manch as UNH.

You mean we can walk to Manchester from Merrimack too?? Cool!

 

[Priceless]

Re: 2011 NCAA Selection Show Thread

You mean we can walk to Manchester from Merrimack too?? Cool!

If you have enough time you can walk almost anywhere.

 

[chickod]

Re: 2011 NCAA Selection Show Thread

True, but the people complaining/whining about it got old back in 2003.

Why is it always contrued as "whining?" It is so wrong to make a suggestion to try to improve things? My team is not even in the tournament, so how does my opinion get interpreted as whining? What's the point of having a discussion about ANYTHING if we can't express our opinion? Is everything in this country so perfect that nothing needs to be "tweaked?"

if you're coming from campus, the drive from MC to Manch is more straightforward, and possibly quicker.

As we all know, there are no "east-west" roads in New Hampshire! (unless you count 101)

 

[buoldtimer]

Re: 2011 NCAA Selection Show Thread

i think its all much ado about nothing. a team with true national title aspirations shouldn't be afraid of going anywhere to play anyone. the people who whine and complain are the people who know its only a matter of time before their team gets knocked out and are hoping for a few moral victories along the way.

The best comment I've ever read on this board.

 

[buoldtimer]

Re: 2011 NCAA Selection Show Thread

Merrimack is about the same distance from Manch as UNH. And, if you're coming from campus, the drive from MC to Manch is more straightforward, and possibly quicker.

Let's face it, almost everything is more straightforward for a Merrimack fan than for a UNH fan.

 

[thecomicbookguy]

Re: 2011 NCAA Selection Show Thread

Why is it always contrued as "whining?" It is so wrong to make a suggestion to try to improve things? My team is not even in the tournament, so how does my opinion get interpreted as whining? What's the point of having a discussion about ANYTHING if we can't express our opinion? Is everything in this country so perfect that nothing needs to be "tweaked?"

It's one thing to make suggestions on ways the system could be improved. But just saying, "it's a travesty that BC goes West while UNH gets a (sort of) home game!" isn't constructive, and just comes off as whining.

And sometimes, even the constructive comments come off as whining when they come from a fanbase who has seen their team benefit from the same system in the past, but didn't seem to have a problem with it then.

(Since it was brought up earlier, though not by you, I don't think UNH should have their intro music pumped in for their game vs Miami; the bands should play. As for the fish, if it's thrown, call the penalty. UNH will kill it, and gain momentum.)

As we all know, there are no "east-west" roads in New Hampshire! (unless you count 101)

And the hard part is getting to 101 from Durham.

 

[pgv]

Re: 2011 NCAA Selection Show Thread

All the schools involved know the process, which means they have opportunities to take actions to ensure they don't fall vicitim to the pitfalls before they're ever in this position. BC could have hosted a regional in one of these years.

True, but that statement is only accurate if a school hosts every year, which isn't going to happen. UNH has hosted three times in the last five years, but that didn't prevent them drawing the short straw in 2008 (nor the whining that came with it.)

Or, more facetiously, they could have let UNH win a couple of games, and bumped them up to a 3-seed.

Or, more facetiously, the CCHA could have gotten rid of that anachronism called the consolation game, and prevented this year's mess.

 

[Alton]

Re: 2011 NCAA Selection Show Thread

I flew to the regional in Denver in '07.

And if every team in the nation had 3,000 fans as dedicated as you, the regionals would sell out.