2011 College Football: Occupy GameDay!

[JF_Gophers]

Re: 2011 College Football: Occupy GameDay!

Why not Oregon in that scenario? Both will have one loss (to LSU) and Alabama will have lost at home, while Oregon lost at Jerry World in front of a crowd that was mostly LSU fans. Also, Oregon actually manged to get into double digit points.

I just said it was reasonable that they could be #2. Not that no one else would be deserving.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: 2011 College Football: Occupy GameDay!

Oh boo hoo hoo, they lost at home. Why do they deserve a chance on a neutral field over an unbeaten Stanford or Oklahoma State? You keep saying results matter, then use a hypothetical non-game to justify why a 1-loss team deserves an opportunity over an unbeaten team.

My personal criteria (not everyone's, I realize) is that the two best teams should be in the BCS title game. Period. It has nothing to do with opportunity or having a chance.

Just because these two particular teams have happened to play each other before does not mean that they're not the two best teams. I thought they were the two best before they played, and I'm even more convinced that they are *after* they played. LSU is the clear #1, and Alabama took them to OT so they are very, very nearly as good - likely better than Stanford or OSU, in my opinion.

 

[bronconick]

Re: 2011 College Football: Occupy GameDay!

Sure you can. If I told you that Stanford played LSU and didn't score any touchdowns, do you think their defense would be good enough to take LSU to OT? Not a chance. Stanford is not nearly as complete of a team as Alabama, which would be exposed if the two ever got to play.

How are you proving that Alabama is a more complete team? NFL talent? Notre Dame and the Florida three usually lead on that. The comparables between conferences are so few and far between you're forced to use the transitive property which is a known failure in college football. It's all "eye tests" because even the farking computers think the Big XII is the best conference this year. Maybe we should be pre-planning Bedlam to be a rematch instead.

My eye test tells me that Michigan is a more complete team than Minnesota. Which one beat Iowa?

 

[alfablue]

Re: 2011 College Football: Occupy GameDay!

here's a scenario to really twist your knickers....

Alabama has one loss, and likely will NOT be in the SEC championship game, since they have shown to not be capable of winning their division, let alone conference.

What if LSU loses a close game in that championship? Do you put Alabama, who lost AT HOME, over the team that beat them, just because LSU lost in a game that they were only scheduled to play in becuase they won the division (which, again, Alabama was not capable of doing)?

One loss LSU and Alabama vs. OSU and Stanford?

Since I'm not a BCS champ watcher, I'd still put both teams in that stupid game, just so it's easier to ignore.... Much rather watch DWTS than a BCS match up of these two teams. Sadly, DWTS will be over. Maybe Batchelor or Batchelorette over the BCS game of these two teams. Please- schedule the game now.

Oh, and add me into the column of the underwhelmed. Yes, forced turnovers, sure. But the D didn't make all of the really bad passes, too. Nor did the D muff the snap in OT. IMHO, both teams played tight as a, well...., and the offense play illustrated that. Good thing there were other things to watch on TV.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: 2011 College Football: Occupy GameDay!

How are you proving that Alabama is a more complete team? NFL talent? Notre Dame and the Florida three usually lead on that. The comparables between conferences are so few and far between you're forced to use the transitive property which is a known failure in college football. It's all "eye tests" because even the farking computers think the Big XII is the best conference this year. Maybe we should be pre-planning Bedlam to be a rematch instead.

My eye test tells me that Michigan is a more complete team than Minnesota. Which one beat Iowa?

I'm not saying that I'm "proving" anything. I'm obviously just giving my opinion, which is all that we *can* do - as you say, it's all eye tests. Better teams (Iowa) lose to worse teams (Minnesota) all the time in sports - so even individual game results are not proof of who is better in any strict sense of the word. Maybe Alabama is actually better than LSU? Even a postseason tournament champion cannot technically be said to have "proven" that they're the best - all that can be said that is guaranteed to be 100% true is simply that they ended the season with a nice winning streak.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: 2011 College Football: Occupy GameDay!

here's a scenario to really twist your knickers....

Alabama has one loss, and likely will NOT be in the SEC championship game, since they have shown to not be capable of winning their division, let alone conference.

What if LSU loses a close game in that championship? Do you put Alabama, who lost AT HOME, over the team that beat them, just because LSU lost in a game that they were only scheduled to play in becuase they won the division (which, again, Alabama was not capable of doing)?

One loss LSU and Alabama vs. OSU and Stanford?

I'm not sure what you're asking - are OSU and Stanford undefeated in your hypothetical? If so, I would probably put those two in the BCS title game, with the SEC champion (out of the east) in the Sugar Bowl. LSU's loss in the SEC title game not only knocks them out, but it tarnishes Alabama's OT loss to them as well.

Or are you asking what I would do if all 4 ended up with 1 loss? That's a whole lot tougher, and it would depend on the nature of the losses. My edge going in would have to be for Alabama, since they made it to OT against a 1-loss team, and all three of the other losses would be "worse," by definition.

 

[alfablue]

Re: 2011 College Football: Occupy GameDay!

I'm not sure what you're asking - are OSU and Stanford undefeated in your hypothetical? If so, I would probably put those two in the BCS title game, with the SEC champion (out of the east) in the Sugar Bowl. LSU's loss in the SEC title game not only knocks them out, but it tarnishes Alabama's OT loss to them as well.

Or are you asking what I would do if all 4 ended up with 1 loss? That's a whole lot tougher, and it would depend on the nature of the losses. My edge going in would have to be for Alabama, since they made it to OT against a 1-loss team, and all three of the other losses would be "worse," by definition.

Right now, you are in favor of Alabama being ahead of Stanford, at least that's what I read.

Based on historical poll trends, assuming both teams win out, it will remain that way. And since so much of the BCS is based on opinions, if LSU loses, it would put undefeated OSU #1, and then one loss Alabama #2. Wouldn't that be a fun discussion.

What you suggest is that LSU losing in the SEC title game would lower Alabama in the polls, which is logical. Against pretty much what polls are all about.

I still think it's beyond ok to have a team that appears to be not capable of winning their own division, let alone conference, be able to go to the "NC" game. Especially when the exact same thing happend to Michigan and OSU, and the exact same reasons (logically) kept Michigan out of that game.

But to go to your second question- what if Alabama wins out, LSU looses a tight game in the championship game, as do Stanford and OSU? Boise Community College remains undefeated. We already have put one loss Alabama clearly over BCC, was said by every talking head at ESPN. THAT would be super fun....

For a more correct BC$ question, would that match up really bring more eyes, or would only the people in the south care enough to stay up that late on a work/school night?

 

[bronconick]

Re: 2011 College Football: Occupy GameDay!

The Big Ten would take a gun to their heads in that scenario, because Georgia is in the Sugar Bowl as SEC champs, and only one of LSU/Alabama can go to a BCS game at all, probably Alabama as LSU would drop out of the top two pretty easily. Thus, LSU would be playing Michigan State or something in the Citrus Bowl.

 

[J.D.]

Re: 2011 College Football: Occupy GameDay!

So wait, I saw online yesterday that the GREATEST GAME EVAR BETWEEEN THE GREATEST TEAMS IN HISTORY OMG !!!!!11!!!!!!!!1!!!! ended 9-6. These 2 "best teams" couldn't even find the endzone? ****ing Pathetic.

And if the defenses are that good, return a **** turnover for a TD, I don't care how they do it, but the 2 best teams in the country should be able to score a single touchdown against ANYONE. No exceptions.

This type of "reasoning" drives me crazy, but LynahFan already took you to school. Anyway, the one thing I agree with is that Alabama should not be #3 in the BCS.

3 missed field goals, 4 interceptions, one lost fumble indicate a game that was less than stellar.

See above.

How are you proving that Alabama is a more complete team? NFL talent? Notre Dame and the Florida three usually lead on that. The comparables between conferences are so few and far between you're forced to use the transitive property which is a known failure in college football. It's all "eye tests" because even the farking computers think the Big XII is the best conference this year. Maybe we should be pre-planning Bedlam to be a rematch instead.

Since when has ND led in producing NFL talent?

 

[LynahFan]

Re: 2011 College Football: Occupy GameDay!

Right now, you are in favor of Alabama being ahead of Stanford, at least that's what I read.

Based on historical poll trends, assuming both teams win out, it will remain that way. And since so much of the BCS is based on opinions, if LSU loses, it would put undefeated OSU #1, and then one loss Alabama #2. Wouldn't that be a fun discussion.

What you suggest is that LSU losing in the SEC title game would lower Alabama in the polls, which is logical. Against pretty much what polls are all about.

I still think it's beyond ok to have a team that appears to be not capable of winning their own division, let alone conference, be able to go to the "NC" game. Especially when the exact same thing happend to Michigan and OSU, and the exact same reasons (logically) kept Michigan out of that game.

But to go to your second question- what if Alabama wins out, LSU looses a tight game in the championship game, as do Stanford and OSU? Boise Community College remains undefeated. We already have put one loss Alabama clearly over BCC, was said by every talking head at ESPN. THAT would be super fun....

For a more correct BC$ question, would that match up really bring more eyes, or would only the people in the south care enough to stay up that late on a work/school night?

Not much to quibble with here!

I do think you're double penalizing Alabama a bit by saying "not capable of winning their own division, let alone conference." Obviously anyone who does not win his division is not going to win the conference, so that's a little redundant. Just as I am open minded to the possibility that they two best teams could be from the same conference, I am open to the possibility that they could be in the same division of that conference.

 

[bronconick]

Re: 2011 College Football: Occupy GameDay!

Since when has ND led in producing NFL talent?

3rd string quarterbacks count the same as cover corners and running backs when they show those #'s for some reason.

Notre Dame: When your clipboard needs to be held.

 

[J.D.]

Re: 2011 College Football: Occupy GameDay!

Sorry if this was mentioned, but a scenario was brought up where the SEC gets three teams in the BCS. This can only happen if LSU/Alabama finish 1-2. That could happen if Alabama wins out and LSU only loses to Georgia in the SEC championship game.

 

[Priceless]

Re: 2011 College Football: Occupy GameDay!

Sorry if this was mentioned, but a scenario was brought up where the SEC gets three teams in the BCS. This can only happen if LSU/Alabama finish 1-2. That could happen if Alabama wins out and LSU only loses to Georgia in the SEC championship game.

Is getting a third team in a loophole or something? Each conference is currently allowed only two.

 

[bronconick]

Re: 2011 College Football: Occupy GameDay!

I can't imagine LSU staying in the top 2 after losing to Georgia when OU/OSU are playing and the 1 or 0 loss PAC-12 North team is playing farking UCLA/Arizona State.

I suppose it's hypothetically possible but probably requires a lot of chaos starting now with 0-1 loss teams losing.

 

[alfablue]

Re: 2011 College Football: Occupy GameDay!

Not much to quibble with here!

I do think you're double penalizing Alabama a bit by saying "not capable of winning their own division, let alone conference." Obviously anyone who does not win his division is not going to win the conference, so that's a little redundant. Just as I am open minded to the possibility that they two best teams could be from the same conference, I am open to the possibility that they could be in the same division of that conference.

It's an intentional redundancy. The reason has been used in the past, so.

I just find it interesting that Alabama could go to the "nc" game if LSU loses a game that Alabama wasn't even capable of playing in, because of LSU. That's just mind boggling.

 

[J.D.]

Re: 2011 College Football: Occupy GameDay!

Is getting a third team in a loophole or something? Each conference is currently allowed only two.

I believe they said a conference can only get three if teams finish 1-2 and neither are the conference champ.

 

[alfablue]

Re: 2011 College Football: Occupy GameDay!

I believe they said a conference can only get three if teams finish 1-2 and neither are the conference champ.

If that happens, Boise would explode. Well, the media will. Since they can't fill their own stadium, I'm not sure if that many fans would really care.

And it's easy to come up with that exact scenario.

 

[Priceless]

Re: 2011 College Football: Occupy GameDay!

The Massey Rankings keep track of 90+ computer rankings and polls. 8 computers have Alabama #1 despite losing to LSU. 3 computers put LSU at #3. One has LSU at #11, Oklahoma State #15 while Alabama and Oklahoma are 1-2. The average shows not only Alabama above undefeated Stanford and Boise State, but Oklahoma is 4th. Insane.

 

[J.D.]

Re: 2011 College Football: Occupy GameDay!

If Alabama finishes #2 ahead of BCS conference undefeateds and there is NO change of the system going forward...

At that point, I will give up all hope. Maybe that's what we should be rooting for after all.

 

[French Rage]

Re: 2011 College Football: Occupy GameDay!

Sure you can. If I told you that Stanford played LSU and didn't score any touchdowns, do you think their defense would be good enough to take LSU to OT? Not a chance. Stanford is not nearly as complete of a team as Alabama, which would be exposed if the two ever got to play.

Neither you or I know exactly what would happen. If only people tried to create some system that would answer such questions and avoid this idea of multiple undefeated teams and split titles. And you don't get that by having a rematch of two teams that already played each other in November when there are other teams from decent conferences who are undefeated. (Now if Stanford and OkSt lose it's another question altogether.)