2 Clarkson hockey players face sex charges

[Patman]

Re: 2 Clarkson hockey players face sex charges

if these guys were working the camp, then they knew the ages of the campers --- so that thought that "some girls look older" is bs.

and if they were working the camp, then it does reflect on the coaching staff. even if they didn't think they had too, it now seems someone needed to say, "hey boys, don't shag the campers!"

even if the girls are of age... its just unprofessional... just like a professor dating the students. Yeah, its legal, but no, you shouldn't.

 

[Ralph Baer]

Re: 2 Clarkson hockey players face sex charges

It looks like Roll wasn't participating in the Camp (lucky for him)...

http://www.clarksonathletics.com/news/2009/4/28/HockeyCamp2009.aspx

Interesting that the maximum age for campers was 15, and the alleged victim, who was supposedly a camper, was reported as 16.

 

[Wicked Slappaahs]

Re: 2 Clarkson hockey players face sex charges

Watertown paper detailing the arraignment of Ciccarello, who plead innocent. http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/article/20090910/NEWS05/309109967
The proceedings for the other defendants were held up due to delays in paperwork from the NYS Police.

The story mentions that the judge issued an order of protection for the girl. This may be SOP for sex cases, I don't know. If it isn't, then obviously her attorney asked for one, meaning she is scared/traumatized. As has been mentioned here, the newspaper account states the acts occurred "without her consent." I believe it is correct that NYS law says that anyone under the age of 18 is incapable of legally consenting to sexual acts...so that may be what the story is alluding to.

 

[dggoddard]

Re: 2 Clarkson hockey players face sex charges

Interesting that the maximum age for campers was 15, and the alleged victim, who was supposedly a camper, was reported as 16.

Interesting but not sure it will affect this.

No matter what happens in this trial, if there's a civil trial things could get messy for Clarkson.

The fact that Roll was at the players' side yesterday is probably an indication that its not that serious.

 

[PSUChamps2001]

Re: 2 Clarkson hockey players face sex charges

I don't dispute kids do stupid things. But they were on campus as reps of Roll's program coaching at his hockey camp...for all intents and purposes they were members of the team. His camp, his kids, his watch.

And on the flip side, where were her parents? Their kid, their watch??

Not to sound a little off here, but think back to when you were 18 years old... what were you trying to do in school. I'm sure most of you didn't drink or smoke either

Also, most of you must have never played or dealt with the PuckBunnies of the world. I can just about guarantee the girl was invited to a party, probably drank a few, did her puck bunnie deed, wanted a relationship, when told no cried. Or else Mommy and Daddy found out. How and why she was even on campus should be a big clue.

Should have known her age? This must be a new thing that all girls under 18 must carry their birth certificates before engaging in sexual activity, because it’s not like there are fake ID’s being made, especially 20 minutes from the Canadian border where its 18 or 19 depending on your choice of Providence.

I've seen accusations like this ruin people career and lives. Mommy and Daddy’s of the world, rant and rave, but if you cant come to reality and see this stuff happening all the time then its time to come back from 1975. MIDDLE SCHOOL kids are having SEX parties in school bathrooms. Girls are wearing bracelets to indicate what and how much they've done. This wasn’t a 50 year old pedophile like I have to work with on a daily basis, heck they weren’t even out of high school but for what a month or two? Now these three boys will probably have to leave their school, have this follow them where ever they go, and lose out on an education and hockey career. Sad.

Note this is a misdemeanor charge, not the felony charge. Under NYS penal law 130.20 it could be more so that she said yes, but being under 17 her parents didn’t like it. “Her” consent does not just include the female. “Her” consent also includes her parents at 16. Also note this is NOT being charged as a Rape case, which more leads me to believe the above. My God I learned something at the Academy

 

[PSUChamps2001]

Re: 2 Clarkson hockey players face sex charges

I believe New York law states that a person less than 17 years of age is legally incapable of consenting to sexual intercourse or other sexual contact.

No NYS law is 17 IS legal to consent in sexual intercourse with another up to age 22 (might be 21 I forget). 16 is also legal (with parents permission - and no there is no permission slip available for download). The only exception is mental handicapped and incarcerated (except trailer visits).

 

[Wicked Slappaahs]

Re: 2 Clarkson hockey players face sex charges

And on the flip side, where were her parents? Their kid, their watch??
... My God I learned something at the Academy

According to reports, the incident occurred while the parents were paying for her to attend an athletic camp on the Clarkson campus NOT at her parents house. The defendants were affiliated with/employed by the camp. The incident is said to have occurred on campus. Had this occurred at the girl's house, your analogy might make sense.

If you can't see the potential civil liability the school is facing, you need to go back to whatever academy you're referring to. Just a hint to the budding Mr. Darrow: Don't quit your day job to take up lawyerin'.

 

[PSUChamps2001]

Re: 2 Clarkson hockey players face sex charges

According to reports, the incident occurred while the parents were paying for her to attend an athletic camp on the Clarkson campus NOT at her parents house. The defendants were affiliated with/employed by the camp. The incident is said to have occurred on campus. Had this occurred at the girl's house, your analogy might make sense.

If you can't see the potential civil liability the school is facing, you need to go back to whatever academy you're referring to. Just a hint to the budding Mr. Darrow: Don't quit your day job to take up lawyerin'.

I see a big potential civil liablilty to the SCHOOL, and for them allowing something 16 when it states 15 is another issue. I guess NO ONE knew her age.

The problem I have is that the press will probably make these three boys out to be mosters.

And it was the New York State Corrections Academy.

 

[Slap Shot]

I've seen accusations like this ruin people career and lives. Mommy and Daddy’s of the world, rant and rave, but if you cant come to reality and see this stuff happening all the time then its time to come back from 1975. MIDDLE SCHOOL kids are having SEX parties in school bathrooms. Girls are wearing bracelets to indicate what and how much they've done. This wasn’t a 50 year old pedophile like I have to work with on a daily basis, heck they weren’t even out of high school but for what a month or two? Now these three boys will probably have to leave their school, have this follow them where ever they go, and lose out on an education and hockey career. Sad.

If the accusation is false then hopefully she gets hers, but just because the Duke players were innocent, and just because some teenageres are promiscuous, doesn't mean something wrong didn't happen. In either case people seem to be jumping to a conclusion on both sides of the fence. I remember how many people publicly went after the Dukies and now it seems the counter reaction is to loudly defend the Clarkson kids. I have no thoughts about innocence or guilt at this stage because there's not enough information available to formulate and educated decision. A lot of folks in this thread could heed that concept.

 

[Patman]

Re: 2 Clarkson hockey players face sex charges

If the accusation is false then hopefully she gets hers, but just because the Duke players were innocent, and just because some teenageres are promiscuous, doesn't mean something wrong didn't happen. In either case people seem to be jumping to a conclusion on both sides of the fence. I remember how many people publicly went after the Dukies and now it seems the counter reaction is to loudly defend the Clarkson kids. I have no thoughts about innocence or guilt at this stage because there's not enough information available to formulate and educated decision. A lot of folks in this thread could heed that concept.

well, the duke thing validated the moronic homer stripe who always believes "no, our 'kids' are saints, they couldn't have done this"... facts will be what they will be... and the degree of indiscretion is whatever it really is. That being said people have used the Duke case as a springboard to pre-emptively exonerate their athletes. WORSE people have used the Duke case to pre-emptively charge the person (woman) as a liar or worse.

One has to be careful here... Duke showed that injustice can happen in sexual cases where race and class is involved and the power of the prosecution... but it does not mean every case fits the Duke mold.

 

[PSUChamps2001]

Re: 2 Clarkson hockey players face sex charges

well, the duke thing validated the moronic homer stripe who always believes "no, our 'kids' are saints, they couldn't have done this"... facts will be what they will be... and the degree of indiscretion is whatever it really is. That being said people have used the Duke case as a springboard to pre-emptively exonerate their athletes. WORSE people have used the Duke case to pre-emptively charge the person (woman) as a liar or worse.

One has to be careful here... Duke showed that injustice can happen in sexual cases where race and class is involved and the power of the prosecution... but it does not mean every case fits the Duke mold.

And I totally agree, but the Duke players were charged with Rape not sexual misconduct. HUGE difference. I know I am making it sound like a minor thing (no pun intended) but this is not a felony offence.

 

[Saints17]

Re: 2 Clarkson hockey players face sex charges

It will be interesting to see how this plays out. This ordeal places a black eye on Clarkson no matter how you dice it.
It is not one recruit charged with sexual misconduct, in fact its three recruits for Clarkson.
Regardless the outcome, the impact will be noticed.

 

[miker]

Re: 2 Clarkson hockey players face sex charges

It looks like Roll wasn't participating in the Camp (lucky for him)...

http://www.clarksonathletics.com/news/2009/4/28/HockeyCamp2009.aspx

Interesting that the maximum age for campers was 15, and the alleged victim, who was supposedly a camper, was reported as 16.

There was also a girls hockey camp 6/28 - 7/2. Ages 10-18 (taken from the camp application).

http://www.clarksonathletics.com/news/2009/4/1/whoccamp.aspx

 

[scsutommyboy]

Re: 2 Clarkson hockey players face sex charges

And I totally agree, but the Duke players were charged with Rape not sexual misconduct. HUGE difference. I know I am making it sound like a minor thing (no pun intended) but this is not a felony offence.

Do we know what they claim the players did exactly? sexual misconduct could be a lot of things.

 

[MinnesotaNorthStar]

Re: 2 Clarkson hockey players face sex charges

Yeah, MNS, we're just all a bunch of Mike Nifong wannabes here.

Seriously, get over yourself. People can discuss this and be disgusted by the allegations without being unfair to the supposed perps.

The Duke case became national headlines just days after the supposed incident. This has been investigated since July, and the victims haven't been huge attention whores. The only connection to the Duke case is that it's a Division I college team with multiple members accused. That doesn't now necessarily make it false. This is what I call "over-correction."

So because this case isn't making national headlines that means she didn't make it up? I'm not saying she did or didn't, and I'm not saying they did or didn't do it. All I'm saying is wait for the facts. People can discuss it without being unfair to the accused, but people like Wicked Slappahs are talking like they know 100% that they did it. So get off your high horse.

If they are found guilty, they should be punished with what the law allows and the two Canadians should get deoported.

Those underage HARLOTS!

Wow, you're so brave and heroic. Get your tail out from between your legs.

If these guys are guilty, I'm going to turn the tables and demand an apology from you twits. Fair is fair.

Yes, I will take exception to holier-than-thou attitudes.

So you want us to apologize for remaining unbiased until the facts come out?

Not once have we said these 3 were innocent. Just that they haven't been proven guilty.

The story mentions that the judge issued an order of protection for the girl. This may be SOP for sex cases, I don't know. If it isn't, then obviously her attorney asked for one, meaning she is scared/traumatized.

Possibly, but it could also be a trial/civil suit strategy. However, since I'm not familiar with the laws in NY, it may SOP, like you also said.

 

[vicb]

Re: 2 Clarkson hockey players face sex charges

Given how the Clarkson admin. allowed the Mark Morris/Zach Schwan fiasco to degrade into a nuclear meltdown - resulting in Morris' dismissal - it'll be interesting to see how they handle this with Coach Roll.

You are comparing apples to oranges trying to compare the 2 cases. First, Clarkson's President at the time of the Morris/Schwan fiasco was Denny Brown. Mr Brown had little use for the Clarkson Hockey Program and even less use for Mark Morris. He was looking for any excuse to fire Morris and the Schwan fiasco fit the bill. The current Clarkson President Tony Collins is a supporter of the mens and womens programs and George Roll up to a point. If Roll did something wrong, Collins will get to the bottom of it and Roll will be punished. I have met George a number of times and I will tell you he is a great person but he holds people accountable for their actions. I am not gonna speculate on anything in this case and will just follow it until it is resolved.

 

[HighlanderRPI]

Re: 2 Clarkson hockey players face sex charges

I'm late to the thread... so I'll just get this over with (probably already been said).

I swear officer, she said she was 18!
well, she WAS wearing pants that said JUICY on them!
What do you mean the age of consent in the US isn't 16?!?
I was just giving her stick handling pointers!
OHHH... she said she wanted to PUCK??! oops..

 

[Wicked Slappaahs]

Re: 2 Clarkson hockey players face sex charges

but people like Wicked Slappahs are talking like they know 100% that they did it.

Please tell me where I once stated anything resembling this. I know you're from Minnesota, but you should have mastered english comprehension after your 3rd trip through.

You can take your baseless generalities and shove 'em where the North Star don't shine.

 

[Wicked Slappaahs]

Re: 2 Clarkson hockey players face sex charges

You are comparing apples to oranges trying to compare the 2 cases. First, Clarkson's President at the time of the Morris/Schwan fiasco was Denny Brown. Mr Brown had little use for the Clarkson Hockey Program and even less use for Mark Morris. He was looking for any excuse to fire Morris and the Schwan fiasco fit the bill. The current Clarkson President Tony Collins is a supporter of the mens and womens programs and George Roll up to a point. If Roll did something wrong, Collins will get to the bottom of it and Roll will be punished. I have met George a number of times and I will tell you he is a great person but he holds people accountable for their actions. I am not gonna speculate on anything in this case and will just follow it until it is resolved.

I merely stated that it will be interesting to see how they handle this case, given how badly they botched the last one involving the hockey program.

I have never, nor will I make a judgment on the kids or the coach. I merely stated that Roll is in a very tough spot.

Sorry, if you choose to ignore your own program's history, but you gotta take the good with bad.

 

[SLUperDave]

Re: 2 Clarkson hockey players face sex charges

[The story mentions that the judge issued an order of protection for the girl. This may be SOP for sex cases, I don't know. [/QUOTE]

Yes - it is absolutely standard to issue an order of protection in any criminal case where it is alleged that the defendant engaged in or attempted to engage in conduct that is harmful to another individual. That includes harassment, sex crimes, even trespass cases under the appropriate circumstances. You should not read into it that the issuance of the order of protection means anything with respect to the guilt or innocence of the defendant(s).