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2 Clarkson hockey players face sex charges

Re: 2 Clarkson hockey players face sex charges

chase.ma said:
Gotice, the facts as stated are multiple clarkson student athletes had consentual sex with a 16 year old girl. Other than the sex acts not occuring, is there any more pertinant information that would not make this illegal? I'm just saying the details can only make the issue at hand worse, not better.
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I am not saying there are more facts, I am just saying that, like the Hofstra situation, it is possible for things not to be so cut and dry as being reported.

I agree that to label these teens as sexual predators for the rest of their lives is over the top. Especially considering that the age of consent varies from state to state. Two of the players came from Ontario, Canada where the age of consent is 14, the other boy came from Connecticut where the age of consent is 16. It is very possible that all parties involved were not aware of the NY law at all. I know ignorance of the law is no excuse for breaking the law, but like anything in life, there are gray areas.

I also did not say that discussing the matter should stop, I only stated that perhaps we should not be so quick to judge without knowing everything.

Discuss away.
 
Re: 2 Clarkson hockey players face sex charges

People who like "gray area" don't usually like laws that have a specifically stated age as the measure because of the lack of, well, gray area.
 
Re: 2 Clarkson hockey players face sex charges

grantfan said:
People who like "gray area" don't usually like laws that have a specifically stated age as the measure because of the lack of, well, gray area.
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So you think? Did you ever do anything in your life that was not legal according to the law? Say speeding, have a drink before you were 21, run a red light, not yield the right of way, eat a grape at the supermarket before paying for it, look at any porn mags before you were 18, etc... if you say no, then you must be one of those saints among us. I am not saying that what these boys are charged with is not against the law, what I am saying is that they do not deserve the same treatment as man older, who were to do the same thing. We are talking about boys (2 of who have just turned 18) and we are talking about kids who consented between themselves to participate in sexual acts. For all we know, she could have initiated the sexual contact.

There are different degrees of the law, otherwise they would have been charged with rape, since the girl did not have the ability under the law to give consent. If there were not grays areas, then every murder would be 1st degree, not the 5 or 6 levels of murder charges that are available in our system now.
 
Re: 2 Clarkson hockey players face sex charges

dggoddard said:
You're right as usual. I just can't help myself. :D
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Well, you just killed any credibility he's ever had...:D

When this story first broke it was stated that it was without her consent. In a later article it stated that it was consensual. The fact that in New York State she is not able to give consent notwithstanding...the first reporter gives the impression that they forced themselves on her. This is all I (and gotice) have been saying. Saying what should happen to them if found guilty is fine...just don't pronounce them guilty until this is all said and done (which Wicked Slappahs has not said:D).

Now where's Red Cloud to accuse me of calling the girl an evil underage hooker? :p
 
Re: 2 Clarkson hockey players face sex charges

There's a long discussion about this on eLynah as well should anyone want to read that. There's a girl on there giving her experience with hockey boys in the collegiate setting which not eye opening still has some good points as to how the hockey boys behave during the year relative to girls with whom they've been involved.

eLynah Clarkson Thread
 
Re: 2 Clarkson hockey players face sex charges

grantfan said:
Hey Chase, in case you're a glass-half-full kind of guy, you'll be happy to know that you are not required to register as a sex offender for public urination, so that's good. Sex with a minor, not so much.

Like you, I struggle to see a distinction between those two offenses.

I also ASSume that your linking them is NO reflection of your view of women, specifically underage women.
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Sorry Grantfan, I guess I wasn't very clear here. Many people have been charged with indecent exposure because of urinating in public. This is very common particularly with the young adult male population (see residential areas surrounding college campuses). I didn't "ASSume", as you so eloquently put it, that they are the same, but I figured that other people would get the link between public urination and the subsequent charge of indecent exposure as some states only have charges for indecent exposure and not public urination. In fact you can be forced to register in some states as a sex offender after one or more charges of indecent exposure.

Also, I do take offense to the fact that you are basically making a personal attack, assuming that I have a poor view of "women, specifically underage women". I think you should go back and read my previous post, here is the important parts:

chase.ma said:
I agree that the age of consent laws are a little outdated in this country, but the purpose is to offer guidelines to teenagers who cannot or choose not to make responsible decisions . . .we are talking about mulitple young men and one girl . . . The players knew what was going on was not socially acceptable nor morally right . . . The authorities are obligated to investigate and I would assume the players will be offered a plea for probation and a fine plus further institutional action. And you know what, I'm fine with that, just because you don't agree with the laws doesn't mean you can break them and get away with it. Have I driven over 55 in a 55? yes, but if I go to court and say it happens all the time and I don't see why its a big deal, I'm still going to get a ticket.
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Also, Oklahoma says public urination is a sex offense, as reported by USA today. So you are not correct in that you cannot be a sex offender for just urinating in public, but moreover, you did not take the time to read my previous post and pre-judged my view points. To put it bluntly, I think their actions were deplorable and they should suffer some consequences, but they should not be sentenced as sex offenders in my opinion due to many of the confounding issues noted on this thread.

To everyone else, sorry for the long post.
 
Re: 2 Clarkson hockey players face sex charges

gotice said:
So you think? Did you ever do anything in your life that was not legal according to the law? Say speeding, have a drink before you were 21, run a red light, not yield the right of way, eat a grape at the supermarket before paying for it, look at any porn mags before you were 18, etc... if you say no, then you must be one of those saints among us. I am not saying that what these boys are charged with is not against the law, what I am saying is that they do not deserve the same treatment as man older, who were to do the same thing. We are talking about boys (2 of who have just turned 18) and we are talking about kids who consented between themselves to participate in sexual acts. For all we know, she could have initiated the sexual contact.

There are different degrees of the law, otherwise they would have been charged with rape, since the girl did not have the ability under the law to give consent. If there were not grays areas, then every murder would be 1st degree, not the 5 or 6 levels of murder charges that are available in our system now.
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Thank you at least someone is this world is in touch with reality. Maybe you all should ask some former players about things like this. It might open your eyes a little just how much it goes on.
 
Re: 2 Clarkson hockey players face sex charges

gotice said:
So you think? Did you ever do anything in your life that was not legal according to the law? Say speeding, have a drink before you were 21, run a red light, not yield the right of way, eat a grape at the supermarket before paying for it, look at any porn mags before you were 18, etc... if you say no, then you must be one of those saints among us. I am not saying that what these boys are charged with is not against the law, what I am saying is that they do not deserve the same treatment as man older, who were to do the same thing. We are talking about boys (2 of who have just turned 18) and we are talking about kids who consented between themselves to participate in sexual acts. For all we know, she could have initiated the sexual contact.

There are different degrees of the law, otherwise they would have been charged with rape, since the girl did not have the ability under the law to give consent. If there were not grays areas, then every murder would be 1st degree, not the 5 or 6 levels of murder charges that are available in our system now.
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Oh, so we're comparing sex to running a red light? If you want to ameliorate the level of crime here then do just that... don't throw in the added modifier of youth. The "youth" excuse is BS. Kids aren't stupid they just don't appreciate the consequence... and yet we'll expect them to appreciate it more by lowering that consequence?

Its been my working theory that people don't change, they just get old and realize there's a penalty for doing what they do. "well they're young, they'll be irresponsible" doesn't cut it with me... when does that carte blanche stop?
 
Re: 2 Clarkson hockey players face sex charges

Its odd that NY state doesn't have some addendum to the law that gives a "range" of acceptable age groups for a 16 year old to give consent to or who won't be penalized for having sex with a minor. Most states don't have a hard and fast line at 16/17/18, but allow participants within 3-5 years to engage in sexual intercourse without committing a crime.

And as always, this is likely not an issue if the sex of the participants is reversed, but thats a whole different issue.
 
Re: 2 Clarkson hockey players face sex charges

BoomGoestheDynamite said:
Its odd that NY state doesn't have some addendum to the law that gives a "range" of acceptable age groups for a 16 year old to give consent to or who won't be penalized for having sex with a minor. Most states don't have a hard and fast line at 16/17/18, but allow participants within 3-5 years to engage in sexual intercourse without committing a crime.

And as always, this is likely not an issue if the sex of the participants is reversed, but thats a whole different issue.
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You think NYS would have logical laws? Ha.:rolleyes:
 
Re: 2 Clarkson hockey players face sex charges

Wow, I scanned the front page and at first I thought this thread said:

"2 Clarkson hockey players face sex changes"

My bad.
 
Re: 2 Clarkson hockey players face sex charges

Red Cloud said:
This really bothers you, doesn't it?
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I think what really bothers us, is the fact that you think some of us are siding with the players and throwing the girl under the bus, simply because we asked for restraint to see what really comes of this. You however, want to tar and feather them without truly knowing what happened, but there I go again, siding with the players.
 
Re: 2 Clarkson hockey players face sex charges

Larch said:
I think what really bothers us, is the fact that you think some of us are siding with the players and throwing the girl under the bus, simply because we asked for restraint to see what really comes of this. You however, want to tar and feather them without truly knowing what happened, but there I go again, siding with the players.
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Yeah, that's it I'm sure.
 
Re: 2 Clarkson hockey players face sex charges

MinnesotaNorthStar said:
Continued references?
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I think Red Cloud is trying to point out that you are doing exactly what he's doing. Red Cloud is after all the one that referenced your name to the newspaper article awhile ago after disappearing for a time.

The "far too busy of a weekend" is always a great excuse too. If you are too busy, great for you, but if you feel the need to point it out on a message board...it probably isn't true.
 
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