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2 Clarkson hockey players face sex charges

Re: 2 Clarkson hockey players face sex charges

vicb said:
You are comparing apples to oranges trying to compare the 2 cases. First, Clarkson's President at the time of the Morris/Schwan fiasco was Denny Brown. Mr Brown had little use for the Clarkson Hockey Program and even less use for Mark Morris. He was looking for any excuse to fire Morris and the Schwan fiasco fit the bill. The current Clarkson President Tony Collins is a supporter of the mens and womens programs and George Roll up to a point. If Roll did something wrong, Collins will get to the bottom of it and Roll will be punished. I have met George a number of times and I will tell you he is a great person but he holds people accountable for their actions. I am not gonna speculate on anything in this case and will just follow it until it is resolved.
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Morris absolutely deserved to be fired for the Schwan "incident" as you call it, regardless of what an asset he was to the program or the asset that the program is to the university. Morris' coaching philosophy was an intense win-at-all-costs one that didn't mesh with Brown's vision for an academic institution of Clarkson's reputation. He had made plenty of mistakes before Schwan and had it coming before the incident happened.

As for Roll's involvement, he may not have had an active hand in the camp in which this incident happened. What his role in the summer programs was hasn't been stated, it may have been none. Either way, if found guilty, all three of these young men should have no future that involves wearing a Clarkson sweater, but that is for the university to decide if they are found guilty. Until then, let's not pass any judgement.
 
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Re: 2 Clarkson hockey players face sex charges

PSUChamps2001 said:
Note this is a misdemeanor charge, not the felony charge. Under NYS penal law 130.20 it could be more so that she said yes, but being under 17 her parents didn’t like it. “Her” consent does not just include the female. “Her” consent also includes her parents at 16. Also note this is NOT being charged as a Rape case, which more leads me to believe the above. My God I learned something at the Academy :eek: :eek:
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Well, yes it is a Penal Law 130.20 case, but lack of consent is defined in 130.05 (3) which provides:

A person is deemed incapable of consent when he or she is:
(a) less than seventeen years old[.]

It has nothing to do with her parents. If defendant(s) and victim were caught engaging in sexual contact of the type described in 130.20, and somebody asked for her i.d. and found her to be less than 17, the DA can still decide to prosecute the case even if she consented and her parents have no desire to press charges.

Under NY law, she is LEGALLY INCAPABLE of consenting to sexual contact, whether any of us agree with this or not.

On the other hand, whether the DA can prove its case without her cooperation is a completely different matter. However, I am not prepared to speculate on what her position is (uh . . . no pun intended). :p
 
Re: 2 Clarkson hockey players face sex charges

Wicked Slappaahs said:
Please tell me where I once stated anything resembling this. I know you're from Minnesota, but you should have mastered english comprehension after your 3rd trip through.

You can take your baseless generalities and shove 'em where the North Star don't shine. :mad:
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I apologize...you never explicitly stated it, no. But bringing up how much blame should be put on Roll implies guilt on the part of the three players.

Stop taking comments on a message board so seriously, BTW...you'll enjoy your day much more...:p
 
Re: 2 Clarkson hockey players face sex charges

Wicked Slappaahs said:
I merely stated that it will be interesting to see how they handle this case, given how badly they botched the last one involving the hockey program.

I have never, nor will I make a judgment on the kids or the coach. I merely stated that Roll is in a very tough spot.

Sorry, if you choose to ignore your own program's history, but you gotta take the good with bad.
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I did not mean to imply you were making a judgement. The Morris-Schwan fiasco was not handled well by the university or Morris. But the relationship between Morris and Brown and Brown's lack of support of the hockey program can't be compared with the relationship between Collins and Roll and Collin's full support of the program.

And I'm not sure how my previous post implied I was ignoring my programs history??? Have a great day and remember soon my ECAC Pick The Standings Contest will be in full swing. Hope you plan to participate :) .
 
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Re: 2 Clarkson hockey players face sex charges

CrazierEddie said:
Morris absolutely deserved to be fired for the Schwan "incident" as you call it, regardless of what an asset he was to the program or the asset that the program is to the university. Morris' coaching philosophy was an intense win-at-all-costs one that didn't mesh with Brown's vision for an academic institution of Clarkson's reputation. He had made plenty of mistakes before Schwan and had it coming before the incident happened.
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I agree of your statements about Mark. But I stick by my statement that Brown had no use for the hockey program, no matter who the coach would have been.

CrazierEddie said:
As for Roll's involvement, he may not have had an active hand in the camp in which this incident happened. What his role in the summer programs was hasn't been stated, it may have been none. Either way, if found guilty, all three of these young men should have no future that involves wearing a Clarkson sweater, but that is for the university to decide if they are found guilty. Until then, let's not pass any judgement.
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I agree and I can assure you knowing the type of people Collins and Roll are that if found guilty they are gone. And yes, let's not pass judgement until then.
 
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Re: 2 Clarkson hockey players face sex charges

vicb said:
I agree and I can assure you knowing the type of people Collins and Roll are that if found guilty they are gone. And yes, let's not pass judgement until then.
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Absolutely agree - anyone out there with experience in the NY justice system who has any insight on how long until we might know something?
 
Re: 2 Clarkson hockey players face sex charges

Does anyone NOT see a civil suit irregardless of the criminal case?
 
Re: 2 Clarkson hockey players face sex charges

If nothing else the school has a problem or whoever was responsible for the camp. When you send a child to school or a camp it is with the expectation that they will operate "in parens patriae"that is they will act as a parent would. If she had contact with a fellow camper that would be different, however, the people who run the camp are supposed to care for and protect the campers, not allegedly exploit them for sexual purposes. That is if they are in fact guilty, they are innocent until PROVEN guilty. Also the burden of proof is much lower in a civil case, it may take a while to sort this all out and until then we can all only speculate. If the charges are true they are despicable but most of us are apt to make knee jerk reactions in cases like this, that's why responsible prosecutors go slowly and get all the facts before forging ahead in a case like this. Just look at the recent Patrick Kane situation the press initially made him sound like John Dillinger when in the end he pleaded guilty to disorderly conduct which wa not even a crime.
 
Re: 2 Clarkson hockey players face sex charges

joecct said:
Does anyone NOT see a civil suit irregardless of the criminal case?
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Undoubtedly, there's going to be a civil suit and as we saw in the OJ case, you don't have to be convicted of the crime to lose a significant amount of money in a civil trial.

So while everyone is waiting for a "guilty" or "not guilty" verdict for the players, a potential civil settlement might seal the players fate. If Clarkson feels the case has merit, the girl's family could settle for a smaller sum with the stipulation that the players be kicked out of school or Clarkson might just throw the players under the bus. For instance, did players violate the school's alcohol policy on the night in question (if alcohol was involved)?

The long and the short of it is that the players are in a "no-win" situation. Their reputation has been called into question, they may be suspended or kicked off the team, their scholarships are in jeopardy, their families and the university may be sued and their future at the university may lie in the hands of a 16 year-old girl.
 
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Re: 2 Clarkson hockey players face sex charges

Henry said:
If nothing else the school has a problem or whoever was responsible for the camp. When you send a child to school or a camp it is with the expectation that they will operate "in parens patriae"that is they will act as a parent would. If she had contact with a fellow camper that would be different, however, the people who run the camp are supposed to care for and protect the campers, not allegedly exploit them for sexual purposes. That is if they are in fact guilty, they are innocent until PROVEN guilty. Also the burden of proof is much lower in a civil case, it may take a while to sort this all out and until then we can all only speculate. If the charges are true they are despicable but most of us are apt to make knee jerk reactions in cases like this, that's why responsible prosecutors go slowly and get all the facts before forging ahead in a case like this. Just look at the recent Patrick Kane situation the press initially made him sound like John Dillinger when in the end he pleaded guilty to disorderly conduct which wa not even a crime.
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The school has a problem since its going to be a financial burden on the institution... i hardly think this implies a systemic problem for the campus.

Regardless, the players shouldn't be involving themselves with their students/campers regardless of age. Its just plain flat-out unprofessional and as we see here an obvious liability.
 
Re: 2 Clarkson hockey players face sex charges

Did I miss Billy Tibbetts getting hired as an assistant at Clarkson? This sort of stuff isn't supposed to happen in the ECAC...
 
Re: 2 Clarkson hockey players face sex charges

dggoddard said:
So while everyone is waiting for a "guilty" or "not guilty" verdict for the players, a potential civil settlement might seal the players fate. If Clarkson feels the case has merit, the girl's family could settle for a smaller sum with the stipulation that the players be kicked out of school or Clarkson might just throw the players under the bus. For instance, did players violate the school's alcohol policy on the night in question (if alcohol was involved)?
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Great observation of a possible outcome. However, I would not expect any civil lawsuit, whether against the players, Clarkson or both to be resolved in advance of the criminal cases. The reason is that the players will invoke their 5th amendment right to not incriminate themselves and, therefore, civil depositions (or a trial) prior to resolution of the criminal case will not aid in discovery or help the university (or its insurance defense counsel) learn all the facts before making its ultimate decision whether a settlement makes sense. More likely, the parties will wait until the criminal case is over so they can conduct discovery and depose the players and actually get answers to their questions.

Additionally, the girl will want information from the prosecutor's files to use in the civil case, and the chance of obtaining those files while the criminal case is still pending is slim to none.
 
Re: 2 Clarkson hockey players face sex charges

LynahFan said:
Absolutely agree - anyone out there with experience in the NY justice system who has any insight on how long until we might know something?
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I practice in the Capital area, but if the north country is similar, this case could be resolved relatively quickly, meaning a few months or less, unless the defendants elect to go to trial. As I understand these are "only" misdemeanor charges that they are facing.
 
Re: 2 Clarkson hockey players face sex charges

CrazierEddie said:
Morris absolutely deserved to be fired for the Schwan "incident" ...
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You find me one player who was on the ice that day (other than Schwan) who thinks that and I'll give you $50. I don't care to rehash ever minute detail of that case. I believe it was a gross over-reaction by the admin., you don't. We'll agree to disagree.
 
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