0 Days Since Last Shooting: But the Second Amendment!

[WeAreNDHockey]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: But the Second Amendment!

Not a surprise to some, but since 2009 the US has had 57 times the number of school shootings of the rest of the world combined.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/21/us/school-shooting-us-versus-world-trnd/index.html

While the number of such events in this country is shocking, shameful and should be the cause of a lot of politicians and lobbyists rotting in hell, your statement is not entirely accurate. It is 57 times the combined total of the other G7 countries. The G7 has perhaps 10% of the worlds population, give or take.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: But the Second Amendment!

While the number of such events in this country is shocking, shameful and should be the cause of a lot of politicians and lobbyists rotting in hell, your statement is not entirely accurate. It is 57 times the combined total of the other G7 countries. The G7 has perhaps 10% of the worlds population, give or take.

It includes the vast majority of the world, with 8 of the top 10 most populated countries, and is a reasonable worldwide estimate. Yes, it's someone else's study.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: But the Second Amendment!

It includes the vast majority of the world, with 8 of the top 10 most populated countries, and is a reasonable worldwide estimate. Yes, it's someone else's study.

No, it literally does not include the vast majority of the word. It's the G7 which makes up 10% of the population. Half that of China or India alone.

And it isn't a reasonable facsimile because it is the seven wealthiest and developed nations. It's like saying the 50 wealthiest counties in the nation are a reasonable facsimile of the rest of the nation. Which is clearly absurd.

Edit: And furthermore, the G7 can't include eight of the most populous countries as only seven nations are members...

 

[WeAreNDHockey]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: But the Second Amendment!

It includes the vast majority of the world, with 8 of the top 10 most populated countries, and is a reasonable worldwide estimate. Yes, it's someone else's study.

I don't disagree with the shocking nature of the statistics in the study CNN reported. We are shameful in this country with this kind of violence, and no where in the first world is it replicated. In addition to the other 6 of the G7 countries, there are dozens and dozens of countries in all corners of the world that don't have the epidemic of gun violence we have, including countries with a lot of private ownership of firearms. But it absolutely does not include a vast majority of the world. Those 7 countries have about 700 million people in a world with well over 7 billion people. Facts matter, especially when the right disregards them and we try to point that out when the right's hypocrisy is on full display.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: But the Second Amendment!

Facts matter, especially when the right disregards them and we try to point that out when the right's hypocrisy is on full display.

Exactly. This isn't an argument where you need to make things up to win.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: But the Second Amendment!

I don't disagree with the shocking nature of the statistics in the study CNN reported. We are shameful in this country with this kind of violence, and no where in the first world is it replicated. In addition to the other 6 of the G7 countries, there are dozens and dozens of countries in all corners of the world that don't have the epidemic of gun violence we have, including countries with a lot of private ownership of firearms. But it absolutely does not include a vast majority of the world. Those 7 countries have about 700 million people in a world with well over 7 billion people. Facts matter, especially when the right disregards them and we try to point that out when the right's hypocrisy is on full display.

Ah. It pays to double check before you re post. The study includes 8 of the 10 ten most populous countries plus many others...but that is not included in the 57 times number. The G7 does not include China and India. The US is more like 6.5 times this huge country set. You are correct. This will make dx's day.

 

[WeAreNDHockey]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: But the Second Amendment!

Ah. It pays to double check before you re post. The study includes 8 of the 10 ten most populous countries plus many others...but that is not included in the 57 times number. The G7 does not include China and India. The US is more like 6.5 times this huge country set. You are correct. This will make dx's day.

Pop up ads have so infiltrated my work computer that I thought that article was about a third as long as it actually was.... It had much more to it than I originally thought. My apologies. It's hard to believe how much crap my ad-blocker filters out on my own computer versus how many I see on a lot of web sites on the one I am using at work. Oh well, I'm supposed to be working anyway, so it is a small price to pay for my lackluster performance today for my employer.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: But the Second Amendment!

Pop up ads have so infiltrated my work computer that I thought that article was about a third as long as it actually was.... It had much more to it than I originally thought. My apologies.

Probably a good reason to keep work as far as possible from important posting activities.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: But the Second Amendment!

Pop up ads have so infiltrated my work computer that I thought that article was about a third as long as it actually was....

This, booze, and porn are the only things that make life bearable.

Oh well, I'm supposed to be working anyway, so it is a small price to pay for my lackluster performance today for my employer.

Code Monkey think maybe manager want to write god-d-mned login page himself

 

[WeAreNDHockey]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: But the Second Amendment!

This, booze, and porn are the only things that make life bearable.




Code Monkey think maybe manager want to write god-d-mned login page himself

The irrational paranoia on the part of my employer is astounding and as such you need an administrator password to do almost anything with my electronic devices other than turn them on. So consequently downloading ad block is not an option.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: But the Second Amendment!

The irrational paranoia on the part of my employer is astounding and as such you need an administrator password to do almost anything with my electronic devices other than turn them on. So consequently downloading ad block is not an option.

Well you're crazy to use the computer attached to your work network -- I'm sure he's got a keystroke counter too. I assumed you were on a dedicated INET machine.

 

[WeAreNDHockey]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: But the Second Amendment!

Well you're crazy to use the computer attached to your work network -- I'm sure he's got a keystroke counter too. I assumed you were on a dedicated INET machine.

The Luddite your speaking with did not understand most of this post...

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: But the Second Amendment!

No one is saying mental health didnt have anything to do with it (talk about an oversimplification) we are saying the only time we ever care about the mental health of the murderer is when it is a white male.

Does that mean it's not a real issue? Every time someone mocks someone else with that silly point it detracts from the dialog and it's no better than the tripe we hear from too many neocons in this forum.

And I don't care that your brother (or my son) figured it out and never snapped. Too many clearly do not and tackling the problem only from the standpoint of stricter gun laws is a short-sighted approach. Never mind I think my posting history should be indicative of the fact I don't espouse Drew's aversions to enacting legislative action to tackle the gun component.

To Slap Shot, one of the points being made is that the GOP has no interest in doing anything about either.

I'm in total agreement.

 

[Handyman]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: But the Second Amendment!

What dialog? There is no dialog. The only time this comes up is in a very specific set of circumstances otherwise it is completely ignored. It is an excuse nothing more. Maybe I would agree with you more if people actually cared about why killers kill but they dont. They care why killers LIKE THEMSELVES kill. That is the problem with all of this. There is no reason for him to have done any of this (being bullied is as lame as it gets sorry) he was a supposed nice quiet kid that was active in the church, played football and even made the honor roll. That someone like that snapped and murdered scares people so like with anything when the answers elude them they fill the vacuum themselves to ease their fears.

You are more than welcome to think this kid was mentally ill and that is why he did what he did...I dont. I am all for doing anything to help those with mental illness and if he is diagnosed with something that impaired his judgement then by all means it is a mitigating factor and I will revisit. But this is all armchair speculation. I havent seen anything that suggests he is actually mentally ill...just some people who just cant understand why he would do it so they ASSUME he had an issue. With what we know so far he can feel free to rot in jail for life.

This is like the people who try and diagnose Trump with all sorts of problems...

tl;dr: Mental Health is a major concern of mine and I am a huge advocate for those with mental illness, but it only ever gets any sort of real play when white people murder en masse so it is nothing but a crutch in situations like this IMHO.

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: But the Second Amendment!

There's a dialog and I'll never buy the claim anyone that does what he did wasn't royally messed up. If you need an official diagnosis (and perhaps if more money and resources were spent on this we'd have one) that's swell, but I've never been acquainted with anyone capable of such madness.

Yet I also firmly believe we need to take action on the gun side of things.

 

[Drew S.]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: But the Second Amendment!

Does that mean it's not a real issue? Every time someone mocks someone else with that silly point it detracts from the dialog and it's no better than the tripe we hear from too many neocons in this forum.

And I don't care that your brother (or my son) figured it out and never snapped. Too many clearly do not and tackling the problem only from the standpoint of stricter gun laws is a short-sighted approach. Never mind I think my posting history should be indicative of the fact I don't espouse Drew's aversions to enacting legislative action to tackle the gun component.



I'm in total agreement.

I think you have me mixed up with someone else. I've said repeatedly that there are certain gun control measure I would be okay with; waiting period, licensing scheme, some sort of mechanism to remove guns from people who are a threat to themselves or others, etc. I think some of these measures could save lives but not sure how much impact they would have on the high profile events. Measuring success in terms of high profile events is off target in my humble opinion.

One thing I do wonder is if we had increased gun regulations would you really want to put more people in jail? I can't see where it would be worth it but perhaps I'm wrong.

 

[mookie1995]

What dialog? There is no dialog. The only time this comes up is in a very specific set of circumstances otherwise it is completely ignored. It is an excuse nothing more. Maybe I would agree with you more if people actually cared about why killers kill but they dont. They care why killers LIKE THEMSELVES kill. That is the problem with all of this. There is no reason for him to have done any of this (being bullied is as lame as it gets sorry) he was a supposed nice quiet kid that was active in the church, played football and even made the honor roll. That someone like that snapped and murdered scares people so like with anything when the answers elude them they fill the vacuum themselves to ease their fears.

You are more than welcome to think this kid was mentally ill and that is why he did what he did...I dont. I am all for doing anything to help those with mental illness and if he is diagnosed with something that impaired his judgement then by all means it is a mitigating factor and I will revisit. But this is all armchair speculation. I havent seen anything that suggests he is actually mentally ill...just some people who just cant understand why he would do it so they ASSUME he had an issue. With what we know so far he can feel free to rot in jail for life.

This is like the people who try and diagnose Trump with all sorts of problems...

tl;dr: Mental Health is a major concern of mine and I am a huge advocate for those with mental illness, but it only ever gets any sort of real play when white people murder en masse so it is nothing but a crutch in situations like this IMHO.

"Like themselves"

Whatchutalkinboutwillis??

 

[rufus]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: But the Second Amendment!

I think you have me mixed up with someone else. I've said repeatedly that there are certain gun control measure I would be okay with; waiting period, licensing scheme, some sort of mechanism to remove guns from people who are a threat to themselves or others, etc. I think some of these measures could save lives but not sure how much impact they would have on the high profile events. Measuring success in terms of high profile events is off target in my humble opinion.

One thing I do wonder is if we had increased gun regulations would you really want to put more people in jail? I can't see where it would be worth it but perhaps I'm wrong.

Unless the person is mentally incapable of managing their finances, and then it's just a confiscatory gun grab by that darkie Obama fella.

 

[rufus]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: But the Second Amendment!

"Like themselves"

Whatchutalkinboutwillis??

White boys.

They don't bother to question why a brown person of Middle Eastern descent might kill. They're just terrorists, and no need to delve deeper.

But if it's a white boy.

*handwringing* "Oh, there had to have been some reason that drove him to take such drastic actions. We must examine ourselves and society to make an effort to learn why, so we can prevent such a horrible tragedy from ever happening again. All we know is that it wasn't the gun's fault".

 

[The Rube]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: But the Second Amendment!

White boys.

They don't bother to question why a brown person of Middle Eastern descent might kill. They're just terrorists, and no need to delve deeper.

But if it's a white boy.

*handwringing* "Oh, there had to have been some reason that drove him to take such drastic actions. We must examine ourselves and society to make an effort to learn why, so we can prevent such a horrible tragedy from ever happening again. All we know is that it wasn't the gun's fault".

When someone of that descent flat out proclaims they did it for ISIS....well........

Not much more to say.