World Soccer XXX: We Have Men Too!

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: World Soccer XXX: We Have Men Too!

There is little doubt though that World Cup bonuses are not USSF's fault. Should USSF be pushing for equal distribution from FIFA? of course they should, but they shouldn't be paying out equal bonuses if they're not getting equal or near equal payments from FIFA should they?

 

[Jimjamesak]

It may have had legal precedence in the past
..to make that argument today is ridiculous.
To also make the argument that


Is extremely sexist and if that's how the USSF feels it needs to defend itself...i hope they get taken to the cleaners.
It should be a cash grab for the women...maybe then it can actually move towards real equal pay.

Ok, I agree the “strength and speed” argument is wrong and was obviously a dumb misstep by the lawyers. Obviously the USSF agreed and that’s why they’re changing to a different law firm and the President resigned. But you can’t deny the truth that Men’s soccer and Women’s soccer operate in fundamentally different worlds, the qualifying structures are different, the game environments are different, and none these factors are the fault of the USSF. So why is it the USSF’s responsibility to financially treat them as the exact same? Why is it the responsibility of the USSF to fund a $20 million plus (and growing) differential every 4 years?

And remember, the USSF isn’t responsible for only NT pay. It’s responsible for youth programs, amateur programs, referees, coaches, Paralympic, Beach, Futsal, the governance of the Professional leagues (guess where most of the NWSL funding has come from?) etc. That $50 million has to come from somewhere and that somewhere is gonna be from parents, players, coaches, referees, and spectators. It’s also going to come at the expense of future players for the WNT. It’s a selfish cash grab at the expense of an entity who can’t afford it.

 

[Jimjamesak]

Re: World Soccer XXX: We Have Men Too!

Also, what is “real equal pay”? What is it’s actual definition? It’s something that’s always mentioned but never defined despite numerous offers of equal pay.

 

[Kepler]

Re: World Soccer XXX: We Have Men Too!

Also, what is “real equal pay”? What is it’s actual definition? It’s something that’s always mentioned but never defined despite numerous offers of equal pay.

Please stop. I assume you aren't but you sound like one of those Limbaugh jackholes who tries to defend paying women doctors and lawyers less than men.

This will not end well for you.

 

[Jimjamesak]

Please stop. I assume you aren't but you sound like one of those Limbaugh jackholes who tries to defend paying women doctors and lawyers less than men.

This will not end well for you.

And you make comparisons to situations that are not at all similar. Do some research Kep, you’re smarter than this.

The USSF offered literal, actual, equal pay from all revenues they control and the WNT players refused it and said it was “not equal pay”. So if literal, actual equal pay is not “equal pay” the what the f- is?!?

 

[J.D.]

Re: World Soccer XXX: We Have Men Too!

That is a perfectly legitimate post

 

[Kepler]

Re: World Soccer XXX: We Have Men Too!

And you make comparisons to situations that are not at all similar. Do some research Kep, you’re smarter than this.

Oh, I'm not saying you're wrong. I have no idea and it really depends on what your standards and rules are. There are some things it doesn't really matter if you're right -- you still give up. This is one of the Great Wisdoms and the only way to stay married.

The inefficiency of paying woman the same as men even if they warrant it less by some measure is overwhelmed by the social harm of paying women less for a job which appears to be identical.

It's like preferring one of your kids. For all I know the f-cker deserves it. But don't. What you lose on the back end is way bigger than whatever point you're making on the front end.

Shakespeare:

The quality of mercy is not strain’d,
It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven
Upon the place beneath: it is twice blest;
It blesseth him that gives and him that takes

Shorter Shakespeare:

Don't be that guy.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: World Soccer XXX: We Have Men Too!

And you make comparisons to situations that are not at all similar. Do some research Kep, you’re smarter than this.

The USSF offered literal, actual, equal pay from all revenues they control and the WNT players refused it and said it was “not equal pay”. So if literal, actual equal pay is not “equal pay” the what the f- is?!?

One question, how can there be "multiple contract options, which we strongly believe address the team's goals as they have been presented to us by the players and their representatives. In particular, we have offered to provide identical compensation to our women's and men's players for all matches controlled by U.S. Soccer."

 

[Jimjamesak]

Oh, I'm not saying you're wrong. I have no idea and it really depends on what your standards and rules are. There are some things it doesn't really matter if you're right -- you still give up. This is one of the Great Wisdoms and the only way to stay married.

The inefficiency of paying woman the same as men even if they warrant it less by some measure is overwhelmed by the social harm of paying women less for a job which appears to be identical.

It's like preferring one of your kids. For all I know the f-cker deserves it. But don't. What you lose on the back end is way bigger than whatever point you're making on the front end.

Shakespeare:



Shorter Shakespeare:

I absolutely agree there should be equal pay. But stop asking the USSF, and people like myself who referee or coach or play, to pay for it. If you want the World Cup bonuses to be equal than go after FIFA.

 

[First Time Long Time]

I absolutely agree there should be equal pay. But stop asking the USSF, and people like myself who referee or coach or play, to pay for it. If you want the World Cup bonuses to be equal than go after FIFA.

They likely would if they thought that could be won.
Would the USSF support them in that endeavor? After their recent legal arguments I would think not.
So may as well go after a Federation you can beat.

 

[Jimjamesak]

They likely would if they thought that could be won.
Would the USSF support them in that endeavor? After their recent legal arguments I would think not.
So may as well go after a Federation you can beat.

Ok, so again, how do you expect the Federation to pay for it?

The World Cup has no involvement of the USSF beyond them entering a team. They don’t get to sell the TV rights, they don’t get ticket sales, all they get is the prize money. To determine all of that they get one vote out of 203.

Now mind you, this is a Federation that pays a guaranteed six figure yearly salary (with guaranteed roster spot) to each player, with medical benefits and benefits like maternity leave, plus bonuses for performance and appearance, plus another salary that’s subsidized to their professional club team. A professional club team that plays in a league whose costs are administrated and subsidized by the same Federation. Also, this same Federation organizes two yearly tournaments for the team in lieu of them playing in a historic, long running tournament because it’s financially better for the players. And this is after more than a decade of financial support to these same players after two different professional leagues failed. (edit) And the same Federation that took over hosting a World Cup and likely lost money so that it could be played instead of cancelled.

But no it’s totally the Federation’s responsibility to make up that $50 million plus another $20 million every four years thereafter because their lawyers f-ed up.

 

[First Time Long Time]

Re: World Soccer XXX: We Have Men Too!

Ok, so again, how do you expect the Federation to pay for it?

The World Cup has no involvement of the USSF beyond them entering a team. They don’t get to sell the TV rights, they don’t get ticket sales, all they get is the prize money. To determine all of that they get one vote out of 203.

Now mind you, this is a Federation that pays a guaranteed six figure yearly salary (with guaranteed roster spot) to each player, with medical benefits and benefits like maternity leave, plus bonuses for performance and appearance, plus another salary that’s subsidized to their professional club team. A professional club team that plays in a league whose costs are administrated and subsidized by the same Federation. Also, this same Federation organizes two yearly tournaments for the team in lieu of them playing in a historic, long running tournament because it’s financially better for the players. And this is after more than a decade of financial support to these same players after two different professional leagues failed. (edit) And the same Federation that took over hosting a World Cup and likely lost money so that it could be played instead of cancelled.

But no it’s totally the Federation’s responsibility to make up that $50 million plus another $20 million every four years thereafter because their lawyers f-ed up.

So they should just shut up and be grateful?
Again, they are fighting who they can fight and with the USSF's legal argument, they should continue that fight as it is clear the USSF sees them as lesser than the Men.
That argument, and clearly your attitude are exactly reasons they should gut the USSF...maybe you'd learn something in the process.

 

[Jimjamesak]

So they should just shut up and be grateful?
Again, they are fighting who they can fight and with the USSF's legal argument, they should continue that fight as it is clear the USSF sees them as lesser than the Men.
That argument, and clearly your attitude are exactly reasons they should gut the USSF...maybe you'd learn something in the process.

Not shut up and be grateful, but go after the people who are really at fault: FIFA, CONCACAF, the TV Networks, sponsors etc. Stop asking the USSF, and by extension those of us who have stakes in what the USSF does, to foot the bill. Yes, they can go after the USSF, but they’re doing irreparable harm to what they claim they’re fighting for. The USSF isn’t a money tree, that money has to come from somewhere. Here is the budget for the USSF for this year, show where’d you take that $50 million from.

A Reddit post summed up a good chunk of the reality of this situation:

Yeah I agree. I think there's always potential for a naive athlete to get screwed in terms of compensation by a team (or in this case, a foundation) which has way more power and resources.

But here we're talking about a group of college-educated women, many of them who are millionaires, that formed a union and hired lawyers to help them negotiate the deal they wanted. Now they're trying to claim that what they voluntarily agreed to is sexist.

>But, either way, it’s difficult to argue against equality. You’re arguing against a concept nearly everyone agrees with and believes is an admirable end.

But that's precisely the problem, they've said many times they don't want the same compensation structure as the men. Rhetorically, it's all "we just want equality" in reality it's "we want what the men have plus a steady salary and healthcare." Personally I think each team's pay should be commensurate with the revenue they generate but at the same time that's clearly not what they were bargaining for

 

[First Time Long Time]

Re: World Soccer XXX: We Have Men Too!

I see no issues in what they are asking for honestly.
From what I've heard it's a difference of 34 million. That can be negotiated down if need be.
Honestly the Federation should also be attempting to help them with FIFA but again with their tactics here I don't see that happening.
But I also don't think it's hurting their cause as much as you may hope.

 

[Jimjamesak]

Re: World Soccer XXX: We Have Men Too!

I see no issues in what they are asking for honestly.
From what I've heard it's a difference of 34 million. That can be negotiated down if need be.
Honestly the Federation should also be attempting to help them with FIFA but again with their tactics here I don't see that happening.
But I also don't think it's hurting their cause as much as you may hope.

Link to the $34 million difference? Is it the number quoted by Taylor Twellman? Because that number is pretty suspect.

I'm getting my numbers from here and an actual breakdown of the total from both World Cups here.

Edit: If you want the actual total of what the difference is it's $48,209,525

 

[Jimjamesak]

Re: World Soccer XXX: We Have Men Too!

Also, from the same writer (Beau Dure): Why Do I Question Women's Soccer Narratives?

 

[ticapnews]

Re: World Soccer XXX: We Have Men Too!

<img src="https://i.ibb.co/zfQJ7Xg/FB-IMG-1584800760005.jpg" alt="FB-IMG-1584800760005" border="0" height="400"></a><br />

 

[Kepler]

Re: World Soccer XXX: We Have Men Too!

Nice.

 

[mookie1995]

Re: World Soccer XXX: We Have Men Too!

<img src="https://i.ibb.co/zfQJ7Xg/FB-IMG-1584800760005.jpg" alt="FB-IMG-1584800760005" border="0" height="400"></a><br />

 

[Jimjamesak]

Re: World Soccer XXX: We Have Men Too!

On one hand:
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The Hanauer Family is providing an initial investment of $500,000 to the fund. <br><br>"The Sounders were born here in Seattle over 40 years ago, and we wouldn’t be the club we have become without the support we’ve always found in this amazing and vibrant community." <a href="https://t.co/f00x1JtYkB">pic.twitter.com/f00x1JtYkB</a></p>— Seattle Sounders FC (@SoundersFC) <a href="https://twitter.com/SoundersFC/status/1242958319804809219?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 25, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

On the other:
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Sad to report <a href="https://twitter.com/MNUFC?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@MNUFC</a> has the WORST response to the COVID-19 crisis in MLS.<br><br>While many other teams are paying staff the wages they need, United and its billionaire owner have a message for their employees: “uh... we hear Pepsi’s hiring!”<br><br>The Team’s email: <a href="https://t.co/XIy6WFoMhj">pic.twitter.com/XIy6WFoMhj</a></p>— Red Loons (@RedLoons) <a href="https://twitter.com/RedLoons/status/1242612031376830467?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 25, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>