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World Soccer XXIV: The Road to Rio

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Re: World Soccer XXIV: The Road to Rio

What a waste of Dempsey's European prospects.

I don't like this move one bit, since I've been hoping to see him break new ground for an American in elite European soccer.

Edited to add: I know that this doesnt mean as much as it wouldve five years ago, but remember when he could've been an important signing for Liverpool? Yeah, now he's doing the soccer equivalent of moving to Florida.
 
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Re: World Soccer XXIV: The Road to Rio

What a waste of Dempsey's European prospects.

I don't like this move one bit, since I've been hoping to see him break new ground for an American in elite European soccer.

Edited to add: I know that this doesnt mean as much as it wouldve five years ago, but remember when he could've been an important signing for Liverpool? Yeah, now he's doing the soccer equivalent of moving to Florida.
I hate this line of thinking. It's been reeking from the mouths of Eurosnobs for the past two days. Clint Dempsey already has broken ground in Europe over the years and his time certainly wasn't a waste. And moving to MLS is anything but moving to Florida for retirement. Clint needs to challenge himself and Seattle is a great opportunity to do that. If he goes to some team in Holland or Turkey or Russia or wherever he's just another player on another team praying to make the Champions League Group Stage so they can get pounded on by Man U/Chelsea/Bayern/Madrid etc. for a nice payday, what does that do for Americans? He goes to another EPL team he's basically back at Fulham, praying the team doesn't have a bad season and gets relegated and hopefully maybe, just maybe claws out a Europa League spot. Woooooo awesome right? That does wonders for Americans! :rolleyes: Or he goes to Seattle and gives himself a new challenge: Being The Man at his club. Meaning he has to go out every game and be the best player on the field, leading his team to a win every game. That's the expectation right now for him, the Sounders have to win MLS Cup and Clint has to lead them to it. You know what the USMNT needs from him? To go out and be the best player on the field every game.

Plus Clint going to Seattle is great for American soccer players. The TV contracts are up in 2014 and MLS needs to secure a good paying contract. You know what secures good TV contracts? Star power, American star power especially. You know what a bigger TV contract for MLS means? Better pay for players, specifically American players, better training, and, most importantly, more money for Academy teams. This move does waaaaaay more for American soccer than Clint hanging out at Zenit St. Petersburg or Swansea. Plus Seattle is not a bad team for Clint to be at. He's got two USMNT teammates in Eddie Johnson and Brad Evans, another potential World Cup player in Obafemi Martins, and a potential US player in DeAndre Yedlin (and not to mention another vet in Mauro Rosales).

And I can't make you watch MLS but don't call it a retirement league. It is anything but.
 
Re: World Soccer XXIV: The Road to Rio

Joe Pavelski and Phil Kessel could each captain an AHL team, I don't think that would help them deliver for the Olympics. Even if the quality of DPs is getting beyond players on the last legs of great careers, its still hardly a top end league. I don't see how playing in MLS is supposed to compare favorably to any of his reasonable alternatives. Is he really going to see better competition in the coming months than Jozy Altidore? Is he even going to face the best competition in this confederation? To say nothing of the fact that he could've had a major role at Liverpool in another dimension. Jokes about their futility aside, that's still an improvement over going nowhere at Tottenham.

To say that Clint has already done what he can is to tacitly admit that he could never have been a Champions League player, and I think that sells him short. I'm standing by it: unless this is a ploy to see who would want him in January, I don't see how this is a forward move for him.
 
Re: World Soccer XXIV: The Road to Rio

Joe Pavelski and Phil Kessel could each captain an AHL team, I don't think that would help them deliver for the Olympics. Even if the quality of DPs is getting beyond players on the last legs of great careers, its still hardly a top end league. I don't see how playing in MLS is supposed to compare favorably to any of his reasonable alternatives. Is he really going to see better competition in the coming months than Jozy Altidore? Is he even going to face the best competition in this confederation? To say nothing of the fact that he could've had a major role at Liverpool in another dimension. Jokes about their futility aside, that's still an improvement over going nowhere at Tottenham.

To say that Clint has already done what he can is to tacitly admit that he could never have been a Champions League player, and I think that sells him short. I'm standing by it: unless this is a ploy to see who would want him in January, I don't see how this is a forward move for him.
Does it hurt to hold up your nose that high? You're approaching Carlton Banks level of snobbery (and stupidity).

You're doing apples and oranges, Phil Kessel in the AHL =/= Clint Dempsey in MLS. It's more of Phil Kessel playing in the KHL during the NHL lockout.

First of all, the facts: He's 30, he's American, he's not going to a major club because he's too old and too expensive, he's has a wife and two kids. Now, take a realistic look at his options:

1. Stay at Tottenham and, at best, be a substitute, knowing full well he could have his starting spot on the NT replaced by somebody who is playing regularly. And if you don't think Klinsmann would do that to a captain, ask Carlos Bocanegra.

2. Go to mid-level European club in the Champions League like Zenit St. Petersburg or Fenerbahce who probably don't even want him because he's 30, American, and expensive. And leagues in Russia and Turkey and Holland are so competitive! So competitive that it's usually the same 3-4 teams at the top. A real challenge to play when 80% of your games have little competition. In countries, Holland being an exception, that he really doesn't want to bring his family to. Sure he gets 6 Champions League games, maybe 8 if he's lucky, but what does that really do? What does "I played in the Champions League!" really do for him other than make Eurosnobs cream? Jonathan Woodgate played in the Champions League, does that make him a better player than Clint Dempsey?

3. He goes to another EPL team. Now the big 4 ain't calling, again 30, American, expensive, so the options are teams like Norwich, Swansea, or Sunderland. Teams that would probably make him take a paycut first off. And he's back at another mid-table EPL that's probably gonna move on without him after a season, maybe two if he's lucky. Jozy Altidore can go to Sunderland at 23 because he's still going up, still developing. Jozy has a good season at Sunderland, a good World Cup and he's got a shot at a Big Four team. Clint Dempsey has a good season at Sunderland and... he's got a shot at another season with Sunderland. What challenge and development does he have being another cog at another mid-table EPL team? Again? 6 and a half seasons of that wasn't enough?

4. He goes to Seattle. He gets to go back to the US with his family and kids. He gets to play in a city that is soccer mad and loves it's team. He gets a nice paycheck that will actually show up in the bank account (a problem with playing in other places). He gets a new challenge in his career: to be the best player on the field every time he steps on the field. He gets to play in a league that, maybe not at the level of the EPL, is actually pretty competitive and (if you ever bothered to pull your head out and watch) pretty talented. And he has the potential to leave a real legacy on the game in this country beyond just "He played in the UEFA Champions League!".

When you get past the ridiculous "Well he could've gone to Liverpool!" thing (which wasn't really up to him anyway) and the "EHRMAHGERD he's not playing in Europe!" mindset you can see that this was actually best choice for him.
 
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Re: World Soccer XXIV: The Road to Rio

Does it hurt to hold up your nose that high? You're approaching Carlton Banks level of snobbery (and stupidity).

You're doing apples and oranges, Phil Kessel in the AHL =/= Clint Dempsey in MLS. It's more of Phil Kessel playing in the KHL during the NHL lockout.

First of all, the facts: He's 30, he's American, he's not going to a major club because he's too old and too expensive, he's has a wife and two kids. Now, take a realistic look at his options:

1. Stay at Tottenham and, at best, be a substitute, knowing full well he could have his starting spot on the NT replaced by somebody who is playing regularly. And if you don't think Klinsmann would do that to a captain, ask Carlos Bocanegra.

2. Go to mid-level European club in the Champions League like Zenit St. Petersburg or Fenerbahce who probably don't even want him because he's 30, American, and expensive. And leagues in Russia and Turkey and Holland are so competitive! So competitive that it's usually the same 3-4 teams at the top. A real challenge to play when 80% of your games have little competition. In countries, Holland being an exception, that he really doesn't want to bring his family to. Sure he gets 6 Champions League games, maybe 8 if he's lucky, but what does that really do? What does "I played in the Champions League!" really do for him other than make Eurosnobs cream? Jonathan Woodgate played in the Champions League, does that make him a better player than Clint Dempsey?

3. He goes to another EPL team. Now the big 4 ain't calling, again 30, American, expensive, so the options are teams like Norwich, Swansea, or Sunderland. Teams that would probably make him take a paycut first off. And he's back at another mid-table EPL that's probably gonna move on without him after a season, maybe two if he's lucky. Jozy Altidore can go to Sunderland at 23 because he's still going up, still developing. Jozy has a good season at Sunderland, a good World Cup and he's got a shot at a Big Four team. Clint Dempsey has a good season at Sunderland and... he's got a shot at another season with Sunderland. What challenge and development does he have being another cog at another mid-table EPL team? Again? 6 and a half seasons of that wasn't enough?

4. He goes to Seattle. He gets to go back to the US with his family and kids. He gets to play in a city that is soccer mad and loves it's team. He gets a nice paycheck that will actually show up in the bank account (a problem with playing in other places). He gets a new challenge in his career: to be the best player on the field every time he steps on the field. He gets to play in a league that, maybe not at the level of the EPL, is actually pretty competitive and (if you ever bothered to pull your head out and watch) pretty talented. And he has the potential to leave a real legacy on the game in this country beyond just "He played in the UEFA Champions League!".

When you get past the ridiculous "Well he could've gone to Liverpool!" thing (which wasn't really up to him anyway) and the "EHRMAHGERD he's not playing in Europe!" mindset you can see that this was actually best choice for him.
If its August 2014 and this is all happening after he's played another year in Europe, AFTER the 2014 world cup, I think all of us feel positive about this move. I think right now, it is a poor choice compared to where he could be for one more season leading up to the world cup. Im not saying this choice will cause him to be ineffective in Brazil or anything but I don't know how you can't say this is a step back, even if the step back is smaller than it has been in the past. Now obviously he could go down the Donovan path and be loaned out to an EPL team this winter which I would be shocked if he didn't but that is still TBD and probably would make this less disappointing.
 
Re: World Soccer XXIV: The Road to Rio

To say that Clint has already done what he can is to tacitly admit that he could never have been a Champions League player, and I think that sells him short.
On the other hand, the proof is in the pudding: he griped about wanting to leave Fulham so he could play in the Champions League, but then nobody playing in the Champions League came in for him. Liverpool may or may not have bid, but they're not really a Champions League club at this point. Then Spurs bought him right at the end of the transfer window, narrowly missed out on the Champions League, decided they didn't want him anymore even though he was their third highest scorer last year, and... well, I mean, if a club that made the Champions League wanted to sign him, he wouldn't be in Seattle now, would he?
 
If its August 2014 and this is all happening after he's played another year in Europe, AFTER the 2014 world cup, I think all of us feel positive about this move. I think right now, it is a poor choice compared to where he could be for one more season leading up to the world cup. Im not saying this choice will cause him to be ineffective in Brazil or anything but I don't know how you can't say this is a step back, even if the step back is smaller than it has been in the past. Now obviously he could go down the Donovan path and be loaned out to an EPL team this winter which I would be shocked if he didn't but that is still TBD and probably would make this less disappointing.
Here's the thing, he had no choice but to make a step back, he wasn't going to be starting at Spurs. But he did have choice as to where he could step back to. I'd argue it's a bigger step back to go to somewhere like Swansea or Sunderland than it is to play in Seattle, as a player he's being challenged more in Seattle. Just because it's not Europe doesn't mean it's not a challenge.
 
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Re: World Soccer XXIV: The Road to Rio

On the other hand, the proof is in the pudding: he griped about wanting to leave Fulham so he could play in the Champions League, but then nobody playing in the Champions League came in for him. Liverpool may or may not have bid, but they're not really a Champions League club at this point. Then Spurs bought him right at the end of the transfer window, narrowly missed out on the Champions League, decided they didn't want him anymore even though he was their third highest scorer last year, and... well, I mean, if a club that made the Champions League wanted to sign him, he wouldn't be in Seattle now, would he?
Fair point.

Here's the thing, he had no choice but to make a step back, he wasn't going to be starting at Spurs. But he did have choice as to where he could step back to. I'd argue it's a bigger step back to go to somewhere like Swansea or Sunderland than it is to play in Seattle, as a player he's being challenged more in Seattle. Just because it's not Europe doesn't mean it's not a challenge.
Also a fair point, although I would still disagree on the Swansea/Sunderland comment, on the basis of the quality of opposition.
 
Re: World Soccer XXIV: The Road to Rio

On the other hand, the proof is in the pudding: he griped about wanting to leave Fulham so he could play in the Champions League, but then nobody playing in the Champions League came in for him. Liverpool may or may not have bid, but they're not really a Champions League club at this point. Then Spurs bought him right at the end of the transfer window, narrowly missed out on the Champions League, decided they didn't want him anymore even though he was their third highest scorer last year, and... well, I mean, if a club that made the Champions League wanted to sign him, he wouldn't be in Seattle now, would he?

Furthermore, I think there's a subtext to Dempsey's "I want the CL", which isn't so much that he wanted the CL as that he wanted to be on a CL club in a top four league. (It might even be further restricted to wanting to be on a CL club in England, though I don't know.)

He could probably have had a place on a CL club in Russia or Turkey, but in return for the top-level tournament play you get a lesser level of club play.
 
Re: World Soccer XXIV: The Road to Rio

Also a fair point, although I would still disagree on the Swansea/Sunderland comment, on the basis of the quality of opposition.
I understand the quality of opposition point but I think it only goes so far. For the US, in the last two World Cups the best players have been MLS players (Donovan in 2010, Dempsey in 2006) and can make arguements for 2002 and 1998 as well. The best player in the Confederations Cup this year last played in Brazil. There is an arguement for it, but it's the not the end all.
 
Re: World Soccer XXIV: The Road to Rio

Furthermore, I think there's a subtext to Dempsey's "I want the CL", which isn't so much that he wanted the CL as that he wanted to be on a CL club in a top four league. (It might even be further restricted to wanting to be on a CL club in England, though I don't know.)

He could probably have had a place on a CL club in Russia or Turkey, but in return for the top-level tournament play you get a lesser level of club play.
Not to mention factors involving family and regular paychecks.
 
Re: World Soccer XXIV: The Road to Rio

NBCSN is airing Premier League Classics today. According to the guide, they are currently broadcasting the epic City v Liverpool clash from February 3, 2103. Football hasn't changed much in nearly a century....
 
Re: World Soccer XXIV: The Road to Rio

NBCSN is airing Premier League Classics today. According to the guide, they are currently broadcasting the epic City v Liverpool clash from February 3, 2103. Football hasn't changed much in nearly a century....

Is The Doctor providing the game footage?
 
Re: World Soccer XXIV: The Road to Rio

Anybody else see the NBC segment on the EPL with Jason Sudekis? It had a few funny moments in there...I can't paste link right now but basically he was a 'US football coach' making the transition to coaching in the EPL...hit on several of the stereotypical US fan reactions to the game.
 
Re: World Soccer XXIV: The Road to Rio

I'm hearing that Hull City AFC is officially renaming to Hull City Tigers.

Tigers? Was that an American firm making the recommendation?

Maybe Little Kickers, The Storm or The Krush were already taken.

Not knocking their historical name as much as commenting on how most American teams have to be The Something(s). Drives me crazy that even in their teens, some of the teams have names that make them sound like U8 rec league teams.
 
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