World Soccer XIX- Full of Pomp-ey and Circumstance

[bigmrg74]

AT times like this, you need to throw logic and best qualified bid to the side. England and the USA both had the best bids in their groups. Both lost. So what we learned is those technical bids don't matter very much when there is an expansionist agenda to fill. Right now, Arab and Russian promise is much sexier to FIFA than US or English efficiency and profits. The goalposts have moved, and America needs to adapt.

The USA strategy should have not been about growing soccer in America, but what the USA World Cup could have done for FIFA and the world?
-Better Linking American-generated profits to FIFA's strategic plans (with a human face, not a pie chart)
-What could America provide to the developing soccer world besides writing a big check to FIFA? We mentioned it, but we didn't show it.
-What could American corporations do for soccer around the world? Expertise/Donations/Support?
-What kind of government assistance could the USA give FIFA? Lifting onerous visas, government guarantees could have been stronger, etc.

The USA is seen by many around the world as an insular bully. We need to get back to winning over the world through humanitarian works.

This bid should have been "The Marshall Plan" of assistance to humbly help FIFA and win over the world.

This is the kind of thinking that could've won. We don't need to spend $50 billion on world cup stadia and infrastructure since our stuff is built already. How about taking a huge chunk of our bid money and help FIFA spend it on the developing world instead?

What can America give, not what can America gain.

Hmmmmm..... You're thinking of something like setting up a bunch of soccer fields up in a few of the major slums in the world, where the kids there would have a chance to play a little more organized soccer to the point where they might be noticed by some scouts? And then for the WC, they could set the fields up to where everybody there could go to watch the games being played in the States, and even offer to continue that with the future WC's?

 

[blockski]

Re: World Soccer XIX- Full of Pomp-ey and Circumstance

AT times like this, you need to throw logic and best qualified bid to the side. England and the USA both had the best bids in their groups. Both lost. So what we learned is those technical bids don't matter very much when there is an expansionist agenda to fill. Right now, Arab and Russian promise is much sexier to FIFA than US or English efficiency and profits. The goalposts have moved, and America needs to adapt.

The USA strategy should have not been about growing soccer in America, but what the USA World Cup could have done for FIFA and the world?
-Better Linking American-generated profits to FIFA's strategic plans (with a human face, not a pie chart)
-What could America provide to the developing soccer world besides writing a big check to FIFA? We mentioned it, but we didn't show it.
-What could American corporations do for soccer around the world? Expertise/Donations/Support?
-What kind of government assistance could the USA give FIFA? Lifting onerous visas, government guarantees could have been stronger, etc.

The USA is seen by many around the world as an insular bully. We need to get back to winning over the world through humanitarian works.

This bid should have been "The Marshall Plan" of assistance to humbly help FIFA and win over the world.

This is the kind of thinking that could've won. We don't need to spend $50 billion on world cup stadia and infrastructure since our stuff is built already. How about taking a huge chunk of our bid money and help FIFA spend it on the developing world instead?

What can America give, not what can America gain.

All great suggestions for how the US could have improved their bid, though I would argue that what the US can gain in soccer status is exactly what the US's best gift is to the world of soccer, as well. Self serving? Sure. But it's true.

I don't see how that changes the heat index in Doha in mid July. That's also a harsh truth that FIFA seems to be ignoring.

Hope and dreams are all nice. We still live in reality, however. Reality is bound by certain rules that you can't just change by moving the goalposts.

 

[Puck Swami]

Re: World Soccer XIX- Full of Pomp-ey and Circumstance

All great suggestions for how the US could have improved their bid, though I would argue that what the US can gain in soccer status is exactly what the US's best gift is to the world of soccer, as well. Self serving? Sure. But it's true.

I don't see how that changes the heat index in Doha in mid July. That's also a harsh truth that FIFA seems to be ignoring.

Hope and dreams are all nice. We still live in reality, however. Reality is bound by certain rules that you can't just change by moving the goalposts.

It's not about the tournament. It's about legacy. FIFA controls the rules, the reality and the goalposts from Switzerland. Money still drives drives the show.. FIFA is betting there is more money and growth in the Arab World (where oil funding flows and competition is limited) than there is in growing the US game, which seems to be growing without much help from FIFA and must grow against greater entrenched competition. With the birthrates, population under 30 and potential liberalization and engagement with the west as targets, the ROI on the arab world is seen as a better FIFA investment right now than the USA is....

Like it or not, we may be a soccer underdog, but we are still THE superpower in the eyes of the world. We need to become humble humanitarians or we lose every time.

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: World Soccer XIX- Full of Pomp-ey and Circumstance

Like it or not, we may be a soccer underdog, but we are still THE superpower in the eyes of the world. We need to become humble humanitarians or we lose every time.

Bull.

 

[Puck Swami]

Re: World Soccer XIX- Full of Pomp-ey and Circumstance

Hmmmmm..... You're thinking of something like setting up a bunch of soccer fields up in a few of the major slums in the world, where the kids there would have a chance to play a little more organized soccer to the point where they might be noticed by some scouts? And then for the WC, they could set the fields up to where everybody there could go to watch the games being played in the States, and even offer to continue that with the future WC's?

Few at FIFA wants to see the USA ruling soccer someday, too. They just want our money to help their own countries grow. As a superpower, we are unloved unless we give and give and give some more....

 

[Puck Swami]

Re: World Soccer XIX- Full of Pomp-ey and Circumstance

Bull.

Clearly, the current strategy isn't working. I am offering a viable alternative.

What is your strategy?

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: World Soccer XIX- Full of Pomp-ey and Circumstance

Clearly, the current strategy isn't working. I am offering a viable alternative.

What is your strategy?

But do you really think your "viable alternative" will change anything?

Also, we can't wave our hands and make people around the world like us. It isn't happening.

Barack Obama is probably one of the more humble presidents we've had, or at least is supposedly perceived that way, and he's 0 for 2.

Qatar didn't get the World Cup because they are "humble", they got it because their region is a mess and Sepp thinks his beloved FIFA can change that.

 

[BoomGoestheDynamite]

Re: World Soccer XIX- Full of Pomp-ey and Circumstance

No, they moonlight as SEC quarterbacks.

The bid committees moonlight as SEC boosters.

And unlike in the NCAA, there's barely a shred of pretense of oversight. Nobody's moonlighting as a commissioner.

Best quote I've seen on this whole situation via Steve Goff:

"I'm sure this was all done on the up-and-up and that Qatar really did have the best bid package." --Auburn fan.

 

[Puck Swami]

Re: World Soccer XIX- Full of Pomp-ey and Circumstance

But do you really think your "viable alternative" will change anything?

Also, we can't wave our hands and make people around the world like us. It isn't happening.

Barack Obama is probably one of the more humble presidents we've had, or at least is supposedly perceived that way, and he's 0 for 2.

It's not about waving our hands or about Obama. It's about opening our wallets and spending money to help people less advanataged than we are. America was never more loved than when we developed the Marshall Plan and rebuilt much of Europe after WWII with our money. That's what builds political capital - investment. Our bid was all about what the World Cup would do for us, with a wink, a nod and a pie chart for what it would do for FIFA. It should have been the other way around.

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: World Soccer XIX- Full of Pomp-ey and Circumstance

It's about opening our wallets and spending money to help people less advanataged than we are. .

Really? That's what FIFA's looking for? How do you possible square that statement with them giving the World Cup to Qatar?

A Qatari World Cup will be built on the backs of disadvantaged people. Who do you think is building the stadiums? It sure as heck isn't the emir.

 

[Puck Swami]

Re: World Soccer XIX- Full of Pomp-ey and Circumstance

Really? That's what FIFA's looking for? How do you possible square that statement with them giving the World Cup to Qatar?

Simple. Think geopolitically. It's not about Qatar or even the tournament. Qatar are just a funding mechanism and some cheap labor - a lens to focus their ambitions on the whole Arab world. FIFA has a much bigger plan of reeling in the whole Arab world, where there is oil money at the top and disparity and poverty at the bottom that they want to help. They figure they can unite people, make some money, bring the arab world into a more positive relationship with the west. That's why Qatar won. FIFA doesn't care if you sweat outside the stadium. FIFA makes their money on TV more than the gate, and Qatar has the best time zone for the lucrative European TV audience. By openng up the Arab spigot and helping the poor there by distributing stadiums to poor countries after the world cup, and giving them infrastrcture jobs and legacy soccer fields, they are advancing the game more than helping America, which already has these things...

 

[blockski]

Re: World Soccer XIX- Full of Pomp-ey and Circumstance

It's not about the tournament. It's about legacy. FIFA controls the rules, the reality and the goalposts from Switzerland. Money still drives drives the show.. FIFA is betting there is more money and growth in the Arab World (where oil funding flows and competition is limited) than there is in growing the US game, which seems to be growing without much help from FIFA and must grow against greater entrenched competition. With the birthrates, population under 30 and potential liberalization and engagement with the west as targets, the ROI on the arab world is seen as a better FIFA investment right now than the USA is....

Like it or not, we may be a soccer underdog, but we are still THE superpower in the eyes of the world. We need to become humble humanitarians or we lose every time.

I don't necessarily disagree with a word you say.

But what's that got to do with the price of fish?

I'm not asking why the US lost, I'm asking why Qatar won. If Qatar's average summer high temp were 35 degrees cooler, that would be a big change. But it's not. Geopolitics doesn't change the very real logisitical requirements of hosting a massive tournament like this and hosting it well.

 

[Rolevio]

Re: World Soccer XIX- Full of Pomp-ey and Circumstance

It's not about waving our hands or about Obama. It's about opening our wallets and spending money to help people less advanataged than we are. America was never more loved than when we developed the Marshall Plan and rebuilt much of Europe after WWII with our money. That's what builds political capital - investment. Our bid was all about what the World Cup would do for us, with a wink, a nod and a pie chart for what it would do for FIFA. It should have been the other way around.

Not true at all, the US gives far more money than any other country in official aid and in charitable giving, even accounting for size, the US still ranks extremely high in charitable contribution per person. It's just not packaged in a nice little media friendly package, and it's gotten to the point now that it's expected of us, it's not all shiny and new for Americans to open their wallet. And the checks aren't made out to FIFA.

 

[Puck Swami]

Re: World Soccer XIX- Full of Pomp-ey and Circumstance

I'm not asking why the US lost, I'm asking why Qatar won. If Qatar's average summer high temp were 35 degrees cooler, that would be a big change. But it's not. Geopolitics doesn't change the very real logisitical requirements of hosting a massive tournament like this and hosting it well.

Qatar had a cruddy bid. Qatar won because they are a serious gateway into the Arab World and a beachead for FIFA to expand both revenue opportunities and development of the Arab market. FIFA wants the Arab world more than they want us.

FIFA doesn't care about the best place to host a soccer tourney. If they did, the USA and England would be smiling hosts today. We had better bids for that than anyone else, but that's not what FIFA wanted.

Qatar could never win on an apples to apples comparison. That's why they changed the dynamic by enlarging the stakes to the arab world as a prize, not just the tourney.

Get it?

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: World Soccer XIX- Full of Pomp-ey and Circumstance

Simple. Think geopolitically. It's not about Qatar or even the tournament. Qatar are just a funding mechanism and some cheap labor - a lens to focus their ambitions on the whole Arab world. FIFA has a much bigger plan of reeling in the whole Arab world, where there is oil money at the top and disparity and poverty at the bottom that they want to help. They figure they can unite people, make some money, bring the arab world into a more positive relationship with the west. That's why Qatar won. FIFA doesn't care if you sweat outside the stadium. FIFA makes their money on TV more than the gate, and Qatar has the best time zone for the lucrative European TV audience. By openng up the Arab spigot and helping the poor there by distributing stadiums to poor countries after the world cup, and giving them infrastrcture jobs and legacy soccer fields, they are advancing the game more than helping America, which already has these things...

They aren't helping the poor! You know what stadiums in underdeveloped countries do after big sporting events? Sit and rot. You can't rip on the US for not being "humble humanitarians" and then hold up Qatar as some beacon of shining light unto the world.

 

[Puck Swami]

Re: World Soccer XIX- Full of Pomp-ey and Circumstance

Not true at all, the US gives far more money than any other country in official aid and in charitable giving, even accounting for size, the US still ranks extremely high in charitable contribution per person. It's just not packaged in a nice little media friendly package, and it's gotten to the point now that it's expected of us, it's not all shiny and new for Americans to open their wallet. And the checks aren't made out to FIFA.

You are right. We don't get much credit for our humanitarian investments becuase it's not new or newsworthy in many people's minds. If we could package this and bundle more of it with high profile events like the world cup,we'd have a better shot at showing the world our generosity.

 

[blockski]

Re: World Soccer XIX- Full of Pomp-ey and Circumstance

Qatar had a cruddy bid. Qatar won because they are a serious gateway into the Arab World and a beachead for FIFA to expand both revenue opportunities and development of the Arab market. FIFA wants the Arab world more than they want us.

FIFA doesn't care about the best place to host a soccer tourney. If they did, the USA and England would be smiling hosts today. We had better bids for that than anyone else, but that's not what FIFA wanted.

Qatar could never win on an apples to apples comparison. That's why they changed the dynamic by enlarging the stakes to the arab world as a prize, not just the tourney.

Get it?

Swami, I don't know how many times I have to type it. I get what you're saying.

No, Qatar will not win an apples to apples comparison. But they haven't even put up anything to compare!

They're proposing to air condition outdoor stadiums that will drop the temperature 30 degrees F and somehow actually make the whole thing carbon-neutral. I should also note - carbon neutrality talk from a country that exports massive amounts of fossil fuels and has the highest CO2 emissions per capita of any country in the world is complete bull****.

I guess if the US promised to put on a World Cup powered by cold fusion, they might have stood a chance. Or if they had promised to hand out a perpetual motion machine to everyone in attendance.

A desire to manipulate geopolitics doesn't change the laws of physics.

Hell, if they just said that they were gonna build indoor stadiums, that would've at least made sense. That's at least plausible.

I understand why FIFA did it. I think they (both FIFA and Qatar) are full of ****. Get that?

 

[unofan]

Re: World Soccer XIX- Full of Pomp-ey and Circumstance

But do you really think your "viable alternative" will change anything?

Also, we can't wave our hands and make people around the world like us. It isn't happening.

Barack Obama is probably one of the more humble presidents we've had, or at least is supposedly perceived that way, and he's 0 for 2.

Qatar didn't get the World Cup because they are "humble", they got it because their region is a mess and Sepp thinks his beloved FIFA can change that.

No, he thinks he can get a Noble Peace Prize from that.

 

[Puck Swami]

Re: World Soccer XIX- Full of Pomp-ey and Circumstance

They aren't helping the poor! You know what stadiums in underdeveloped countries do after big sporting events? Sit and rot. You can't rip on the US for not being "humble humanitarians" and then hold up Qatar as some beacon of shining light unto the world.

I don't think you are understanding my point.. Nobody is holding up Qatar as a beacon. It's not a country I would ever visit voluntarily. I don't like their values and I don't care for 110 agree heat, either. But all they did today was kick our *** by setting up a venue to enable FIFA's humanitarian intentions for growing soccer in the Arab World. I am only ripping the US for a bad strategy in the bid process. FIFA does a lot to advance soccer in poor countries, just as the IOC does with other sports. All I am saying is that if you want to win a global sporting event and you are the USA, making your bid all about the USA is a bad idea. We got smacked by Brazil and Qatar, who both understood the IOC and FIFA's desires for a long term legacy in new markets. Our Olympic and World Cup bids were all about us. That only works when you are a little guy. The bids should have been about what we can do for them.

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: World Soccer XIX- Full of Pomp-ey and Circumstance

I don't think you are understanding my point.. Nobody is holding up Qatar as a beacon. It's not a country I would ever visit voluntarily. I don't like their values and I don't care for 110 agree heat, either. But all they did today was kick our *** by setting up a venue to enable FIFA's humanitarian intentions for growing soccer in the Arab World. I am only ripping the US for a bad strategy in the bid process. FIFA does a lot to advance soccer in poor countries, just as the IOC does with other sports. All I am saying is that if you want to win a global sporting event and you are the USA, making your bid all about the USA is a bad idea. We got smacked by Brazil and Qatar, who both understood the IOC and FIFA's desires for a long term legacy in new markets. Our Olympic and World Cup bids were all about us. That only works when you are a little guy. The bids should have been about what we can do for them.

But they have not done that. That's my point.