World Soccer XIX- Full of Pomp-ey and Circumstance

[Craig P.]

Re: World Soccer XIX- Full of Pomp-ey and Circumstance

Can't, unless they change the rules regarding continental rotation again. Supposedly the last 2 host conferedations are ineligible; so Asia and Europe are off the map.

And if they're going to change the rules for 2026, I worry a lot more about them doing it to put the World Cup back in Europe (which also opens up 2030 for Argentina/Uruguay) than to give a second straight to AFC.

Worst case scenario for the U.S.:
2026 - Europe
2030 - Argentina-Uruguay
2034 - Africa or Asia - maybe China or Australia
2038 - Europe
2042 - Our next shot.

Granted, 2030's not even close to a shoe-in for Argentina-Uruguay even if they do give 2026 to Europe, but I'd be very surprised if there were to be two consecutive western-hemisphere World Cups.

 

[Craig P.]

Re: World Soccer XIX- Full of Pomp-ey and Circumstance

Do FIFA officials moonlights as commissioners for the SEC as well?

No, they moonlight as SEC quarterbacks.

The bid committees moonlight as SEC boosters.

And unlike in the NCAA, there's barely a shred of pretense of oversight. Nobody's moonlighting as a commissioner.

 

[unofan]

Re: World Soccer XIX- Full of Pomp-ey and Circumstance

And if they're going to change the rules for 2026, I worry a lot more about them doing it to put the World Cup back in Europe (which also opens up 2030 for Argentina/Uruguay) than to give a second straight to AFC.

Worst case scenario for the U.S.:
2026 - Europe
2030 - Argentina-Uruguay
2034 - Africa or Asia - maybe China or Australia
2038 - Europe
2042 - Our next shot.

Granted, 2030's not even close to a shoe-in for Argentina-Uruguay even if they do give 2026 to Europe, but I'd be very surprised if there were to be two consecutive western-hemisphere World Cups.

I'd switch it slightly. Cause if they throw out the rules to give it back to Europe in 2026, then all bets are off.
2026 - Europe
2030 - Argentina-Uruguay
2034 - Europe
2038 - China / Aussie
2042 - Europe
2046 - our next shot.

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: World Soccer XIX- Full of Pomp-ey and Circumstance

I didn't get a chance to see Gulati's remarks, just reading Steve Goff's tweets now:

"It's politics, it's friendships and relationships, it's alliances, it's tactics."
Gulati: "For the last 6 months or so, we thought this would come down to the U.S. and Qatar."
Gulati: "We made a compelling argument, obviously not compelling enough."

Thanks for the effort Sunil

Anyone know if he went on to say anything more meaningful?

 

[Craig P.]

Re: World Soccer XIX- Full of Pomp-ey and Circumstance

I'd switch it slightly. Cause if they throw out the rules to give it back to Europe in 2026, then all bets are off.
2026 - Europe
2030 - Argentina-Uruguay
2034 - Europe
2038 - China / Aussie
2042 - Europe
2046 - our next shot.

Could be. I was figuring they'd just tweak it to get the 2030 centennial done, and then go back to the every third in Europe plan, which is actually pretty sound.

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: World Soccer XIX- Full of Pomp-ey and Circumstance

Just saw this email from Gulati, titled "What We Achieved"

Just a few hours ago, FIFA announced the host of the 2022 FIFA World Cup™. Despite our best efforts, the United States was not chosen for this honor.

There's no way around it: I am disappointed. Millions of U.S. soccer fans worked hard to bring the World Cup to our country. To come up short is very difficult to take.

But in the face of this disappointment, we shouldn't lose track of all that we achieved. During the past two years, the outpouring of support for soccer in the United States has been inspiring and historic. More than one million people signed on to our Bid, and more than 100 million watched last summer's World Cup.

Thanks to your efforts, the Game is stronger than ever in our country, and it will continue to grow stronger. There's no question that you've helped make a lasting impact on soccer in the United States. The entire country – and the entire world – took notice.

Even though our Bid did not win, the future of soccer is bright in the United States. You've proven to the world that The Game Is In You, and that The Game Is In US.

Thank you for all that you've done.

Sincerely,

Sunil Gulati
President
U.S. Soccer

 

[blockski]

Re: World Soccer XIX- Full of Pomp-ey and Circumstance

I didn't get a chance to see Gulati's remarks, just reading Steve Goff's tweets now:


Thanks for the effort Sunil

Anyone know if he went on to say anything more meaningful?

In public? I doubt it.

Throwing a fit might feel good now, but it probably won't help in the long run. Look at the USOC's relationship with the IOC, for example.

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: World Soccer XIX- Full of Pomp-ey and Circumstance

In public? I doubt it.

Throwing a fit might feel good now, but it probably won't help in the long run. Look at the USOC's relationship with the IOC, for example.

We were on our best behavior and still lost out. What's the worst that could happen? The World Cup gets given to a totally undeserving country instead of us? Oh wait....

 

[Puck Swami]

Re: World Soccer XIX- Full of Pomp-ey and Circumstance

As Woody Hayes said "Nothing cleanses your soul like getting your azz kicked in"

Looking at the big picture, we got beat like a drum, folks. Qatar was playing chess while we played checkers.

The US wasn't going to win this, ever, despite having the best technical bid. Best bids don't win these big competitions anymore. It's an American way of thinking that if you do your homework and produce the best business case/bid, that logic will make you the winner. Not any more. The world outside the USA runs on deep personal relationships, which obviously, Qatar crushed us on.

Additionally, it's not about revenue or stadiums or even comfort. It's about having a compelling, emotional global narrative that makes the governing body think they are best serving humanity, not just hosting a soccer tourney. We didn't have that. Our case was simply one of incremental growth. The USA approached this as another MBA project. Our bid presentation was heavy on pie charts and without real emotion. Landon Donovan was the only authentic part of it, with a rambling Bill Clinton and a buffuddled Morgan Freeman stumbling through the script. The USA looked like they felt entitled, rather than genuinely impassioned or connected to a real story. Watch Qatar's presentation - they knew that they had a bad bid going in, and they knew they needed a good story to tell, and they told it well, with genuine emotion and and a human face. They learned from Brazil's winning Olympic bid, which won by appealing to the IOCs need to bring the Olympics to new places and audiences and to fill the South American void on the Olympic Host map. Qatar did the same thing - they showed FIFA that there is a hole in the history of the World Cup, and that the Arab World with its promise, financing and lack of western engagement needed to be brought to the global table.

We last had a narrative in 1994, when FIFA needed convincing that the USA could host and that by giving us the world cup, soccer would enter a new market. We didn't have that card to play this time. Now, growing a new market is better play than growing an established one. With the globalization of communications and technology, the world is a flatter place, and small nations can beat out big ones if they have some money to spend and better story to tell. We were crushed in the backroom and in the front room, and we need to learn from it.

Losing these big global sporting events to other countries is the result of globalization. We need to re-learn how to play the game with more than just pie charts and smug entitlement.

 

[bigmrg74]

I didn't get a chance to see Gulati's remarks, just reading Steve Goff's tweets now:


Thanks for the effort Sunil

Anyone know if he went on to say anything more meaningful?

That they didn't back a brinks truck up to FIFA to get the bid??

 

[blockski]

Re: World Soccer XIX- Full of Pomp-ey and Circumstance

Looking at the big picture, we got beat like a drum, folks. Qatar was playing chess while we played checkers.

The US wasn't going to win this, ever, despite having the best technical bid. Best bids don't win these big competitions anymore. It's an American way of thinking that if you do your homework and produce the best business case/bid, that logic will make you the winner. Not any more. The world outside the USA runs on deep personal relationships, which obviously, Qatar crushed us on.

Additionally, it's not about revenue or stadiums or even comfort. It's about having a compelling, emotional global narrative that makes the governing body think they are best serving humanity, not just hosting a soccer tourney. We didn't have that. Our case was simply one of incremental growth. The USA approached this as another MBA project. Our bid presentation was heavy on pie charts and without real emotion. Landon Donovan was the only authentic part of it, with a rambling Bill Clinton and a buffuddled Morgan Freeman stumbling through the script. The USA looked like they felt entitled, rather than genuinely impassioned or connected to a real story. Watch Qatar's presentation - they knew that they had a bad bid going in, and they knew they needed a good story to tell, and they told it well, with genuine emotion and and a human face. They learned from Brazil's winning Olympic bid, which won by appealing to the IOCs need to bring the Olympics to new places and audiences and to fill the South American void on the Olympic Host map. Qatar did the same thing - they showed FIFA that there is a hole in the history of the World Cup, and that the Arab World with its promise, financing and lack of western engagement needed to be brought to the global table.

We last had a narrative in 1994, when FIFA needed convincing that the USA could host and that by giving us the world cup, soccer would enter a new market. We didn't have that card to play this time. Now, growing a a new market is better play than growing an establsished one, and with globalization of communications and technology, the world is a flatter place, and samll nations can beat out big ones if they have some money to spend and better story to tell.

Passion and narrative my eye.

We didn't grease the right palms. Or grease those palms enough. You can interpret 'grease' as you like.

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: World Soccer XIX- Full of Pomp-ey and Circumstance

Looking at the big picture, we got beat like a drum, folks. Qatar was playing chess while we played checkers.

And doesn't the blame for that have to go all the way to the top?

Passion and narrative my eye.

We didn't grease the right palms. Or grease those palms enough. You can interpret 'grease' as you like.

I don't deny that palm greasing was a big part of it, but I honestly do believe that Sepp, corrupt as may be, honestly does believe in the theory of soccer uniting people.

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: World Soccer XIX- Full of Pomp-ey and Circumstance

Landon Donovan's last tweet:

I have an idea..we play Qatar in a friendly(they can even host it), and the winner gets to host the 2022 WC..wait, do they even have a team?

Wow. Well done Landon.

 

[Puck Swami]

Re: World Soccer XIX- Full of Pomp-ey and Circumstance

Passion and narrative my eye.

We didn't grease the right palms. Or grease those palms enough. You can interpret 'grease' as you like.

"Deep Personal Relationships"

Seriously, the IOC and FIFA are thinking well beyond the best bid. They think if themselves as humanitarian NGOs. We haven't learned to think that way, yet. And we've bribed before (remember Salt Lake in 2002).

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: World Soccer XIX- Full of Pomp-ey and Circumstance

Well let's be honest, it still dooesnt seem feasible to have all those spectators in the country of Qatar. I don't see how it's even possible even if you ignore the temps and security. Granted they can only vote based on the nations at bid but it seems like there are better Arab countries.

 

[blockski]

Re: World Soccer XIX- Full of Pomp-ey and Circumstance

Whether you're greasing those palms with straight cash, homey - or whether you're greasing with good vibes, it doesn't really matter.

And that's all well and good - but there has to be some consideration for the technical report. What about the quasi-slavery that happens in Qatar? What about their human rights record?

How about the lovely coincidence that the two countries that won WC bids amidst press allegations of FIFA corruption just so happen to be the two bidding countries with the lowest scores for freedom of the press?

The Russia bid I can understand. The Qatar win I cannot.

 

[Puck Swami]

Re: World Soccer XIX- Full of Pomp-ey and Circumstance

The Russia bid I can understand. The Qatar win I cannot.

The Technical Report doesn't matter. If it did, we'd win every time out. FIFA wanted something else - to fill the Arab Void. They see oil money, fast growing populations with everyone there under 30, and a huge need to link the Arab world to the west by expanding soccer to new markets. And the bribes? Of course they were there. No competition of this size ever runs cleanly.

 

[blockski]

Re: World Soccer XIX- Full of Pomp-ey and Circumstance

The Technical Report doesn't matter. If it did, we'd win every time out. FIFA wanted something else - to fill the Arab Void. They see oil money, fast growing populations with everyone there under 30, and a huge need to link the Arab world to the west by expanding soccer to new markets. And the bribes? Of course they were there. No competition of this size ever runs cleanly.

It's gotta matter to some degree.

Doha's average temperature in July is 100 degrees. The max dewpoint is 80! The heat index in those conditions would be well over 130.

I mean, at least they have a quality team:

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[Puck Swami]

Re: World Soccer XIX- Full of Pomp-ey and Circumstance

It's gotta matter to some degree.

Doha's average temperature in July is 100 degrees. The max dewpoint is 80! The heat index in those conditions would be well over 130.

AT times like this, you need to throw logic and best qualified bid to the side. England and the USA both had the best bids in their groups. Both lost. So what we learned is those technical bids don't matter very much when there is an expansionist agenda to fill. Right now, Arab and Russian promise is much sexier to FIFA than US or English efficiency and profits. The goalposts have moved, and America needs to adapt.

The USA strategy should have not been about growing soccer in America, but what the USA World Cup could have done for FIFA and the world?
-Better Linking American-generated profits to FIFA's strategic plans (with a human face, not a pie chart)
-What could America provide to the developing soccer world besides writing a big check to FIFA? We mentioned it, but we didn't show it.
-What could American corporations do for soccer around the world? Expertise/Donations/Support?
-What kind of government assistance could the USA give FIFA? Lifting onerous visas, government guarantees could have been stronger, etc.

The USA is seen by many around the world as an insular bully. We need to get back to winning over the world through humanitarian works.

This bid should have been "The Marshall Plan" of assistance to humbly help FIFA and win over the world.

This is the kind of thinking that could've won. We don't need to spend $50 billion on world cup stadia and infrastructure since our stuff is built already. How about taking a huge chunk of our bid money and help FIFA spend it on the developing world instead?

What can America give, not what can America gain.

 

[bronconick]

Re: World Soccer XIX- Full of Pomp-ey and Circumstance

The American bid presentation may have been mediocre. That doesn't justify the fact that they've awarded a World Cup based on moonbeams and unicorns. Temporary stadiums using an air conditioning technology that hasn't been tested in large venues, and afterwards, some other poor countries can have some used seats.

http://goal.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/...ns-bound-for-south-africa-remains-to-be-seen/

That article from before this year's World Cup estimated that 450,000 people traveled to South Africa in addition to a million South Africans purchasing tickets, or about 2% of the 50 million South Africans. There are 146,000 Qataris, and 1.3 million foreign workers, most in a state close to slavery and unlikely to be purchasing tickets.
There is no domestic base for ticket sales. There is nowhere to put the one-time million visitors that would have to make up the difference. What, temporary hotels? Tents, to get the full "Arab feel" like the farking vuvuzelas of South Africa?

They can sit there while counting their oil money payments today, and Blatter can dream about his Nobel Peace Prize, but I would predict now that there's going to be a lot of griping from their replacements a dozen years down the road when the 2022 event is a massive money loser due to 1/3 the attendance of 2014 and even 2018. The guys that voted it in today will be dead by then anyway, so I guess it's not their problem.