World Soccer XIII: Through the Group Stages

[JohnN]

Re: World Soccer XIII: Through the Group Stages

First, I'd like to get rid of the two 15 minute overtimes. They turn any game tied after about 75 minutes into a defensive struggle. Both teams just try to avoid mistakes and get themselves to the penalty kicks.

Instead of penalty kicks, I wish they'd take a cue from college football and make the tie-breaker seem more like real play. Have the tie-breaker be four possessions. Give each team two alternating corners and play for exactly 40 seconds. If a ball goes out of bounds by the defenders, the offensive team would get another corner and a fresh 40 seconds. If the ball goes out on the attackers, the situation ends and the other team starts one of their two possessions/corners. Most goals win. If it's still a tie after four possessions, alternate corners until you get a winner.

 

[JohnN]

Re: World Soccer XIII: Through the Group Stages

It would be fantastic if there was video of the 1950 game, but I guess that isn't likely.

I'm sure we could find a video of English people complaining for 90 minutes about the game result.

 

[Kepler]

Re: World Soccer XIII: Through the Group Stages

First, I'd like to get rid of the two 15 minute overtimes. They turn any game tied after about 75 minutes into a defensive struggle. Both teams just try to avoid mistakes and get themselves to the penalty kicks.

Instead of penalty kicks, I wish they'd take a cue from college football and make the tie-breaker seem more like real play. Have the tie-breaker be four possessions. Give each team two alternating corners and play for exactly 40 seconds. If a ball goes out of bounds by the defenders, the offensive team would get another corner and a fresh 40 seconds. If the ball goes out on the attackers, the situation ends and the other team starts one of their two possessions/corners. Most goals win. If it's still a tie after four possessions, alternate corners until you get a winner.

Not bad. What's the conversion rate on corners? 5%?

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: World Soccer XIII: Through the Group Stages

First, I'd like to get rid of the two 15 minute overtimes. They turn any game tied after about 75 minutes into a defensive struggle. Both teams just try to avoid mistakes and get themselves to the penalty kicks.

Instead of penalty kicks, I wish they'd take a cue from college football and make the tie-breaker seem more like real play. Have the tie-breaker be four possessions. Give each team two alternating corners and play for exactly 40 seconds. If a ball goes out of bounds by the defenders, the offensive team would get another corner and a fresh 40 seconds. If the ball goes out on the attackers, the situation ends and the other team starts one of their two possessions/corners. Most goals win. If it's still a tie after four possessions, alternate corners until you get a winner.

To me that's almost as bad as penalties. College football overtime is nothing like real play, imo. It's a watered down, not as good version of the full game, taking just a few aspects of it.

I think in the World Cup, it should just be play until a goal is scored. As for in season competitions, I don't know, I'd like to see something better than penalties though.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: World Soccer XIII: Through the Group Stages

Hmmm - this thread is 1/3 full, and we haven't had the first kickoff. I give it another week, tops.

Looking forward to going out to watch the England game in a Geneva pub - should be a riot to see all the UK bankers giving their side the golf clap after they win.

 

[Priceless]

Re: World Soccer XIII: Through the Group Stages

First, I'd like to get rid of the two 15 minute overtimes. They turn any game tied after about 75 minutes into a defensive struggle. Both teams just try to avoid mistakes and get themselves to the penalty kicks.

Instead of penalty kicks, I wish they'd take a cue from college football and make the tie-breaker seem more like real play. Have the tie-breaker be four possessions. Give each team two alternating corners and play for exactly 40 seconds. If a ball goes out of bounds by the defenders, the offensive team would get another corner and a fresh 40 seconds. If the ball goes out on the attackers, the situation ends and the other team starts one of their two possessions/corners. Most goals win. If it's still a tie after four possessions, alternate corners until you get a winner.

We used to have corners instead of PKs for the playoffs. In 1983 (I think) NYA played St Dom's for the regional championship and won on the (wait for it) 73rd corner kick of the match. The game started around 1 and ended around 5. That proved a bit much for high school kids and they went back to PKs. It would have probably been shorter to just play golden goal.

 

[JohnN]

Re: World Soccer XIII: Through the Group Stages

So, it sounds like the corner idea was a bad one.

This is an idea they'd never adapt, but it actually makes sense.

Have the penalty kick shoot-out before the match starts. Then both sides know who wins if the game ends in a tie.

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: World Soccer XIII: Through the Group Stages

Ideally, there wouldn't be any ties, but I understand soccer is different in that it's often a struggle to score, so you can't play forever.

In an ideal world, absolutely. And beyond the difficulty of scoring, I would add that its just as important to emphasize that a win must be earned by being better than the other team.

That being said, I have a very difficult time getting behind penalty kicks deciding winners.

That's the point. A tie is better than forcing a winner based off of some arbitrary method of choosing a winner. If two teams play 75 minutes of football, or 120 minutes of soccer, or 65/70/80 minutes of hockey and that doesn't decide a winner, then neither team deserves the win. They had plenty of time to decide which team is better than the other and they both failed. End of story.

The (very obvious) exception is in a playoff/knockout round, wherein the solution is painfully obvious:

I think in the World Cup, it should just be play until a goal is scored

The only problem with this isn't the integrity of the game, but rather that soccer officiating is so corrupt. All it takes is one exuse for an official to award a garbage penalty kick and they've decided the game.

Edit- Okay, this one makes sense as well...

Have the penalty kick shoot-out before the match starts. Then both sides know who wins if the game ends in a tie.

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: World Soccer XIII: Through the Group Stages

So, it sounds like the corner idea was a bad one.

This is an idea they'd never adapt, but it actually makes sense.

Have the penalty kick shoot-out before the match starts. Then both sides know who wins if the game ends in a tie.

That's pretty good, never heard that one before. I can see that being abused though. Say Italy win a shootout before the match starts, doesn't that give them even more incentive to bunker in and play defensively than they usually have. Conversely, doesn't that make the other team go for it even more, and leave them open to counterattacks and goals against the run of play?

 

[blockski]

Re: World Soccer XIII: Through the Group Stages

First, I'd like to get rid of the two 15 minute overtimes. They turn any game tied after about 75 minutes into a defensive struggle. Both teams just try to avoid mistakes and get themselves to the penalty kicks.

Instead of penalty kicks, I wish they'd take a cue from college football and make the tie-breaker seem more like real play. Have the tie-breaker be four possessions. Give each team two alternating corners and play for exactly 40 seconds. If a ball goes out of bounds by the defenders, the offensive team would get another corner and a fresh 40 seconds. If the ball goes out on the attackers, the situation ends and the other team starts one of their two possessions/corners. Most goals win. If it's still a tie after four possessions, alternate corners until you get a winner.

I can't really get behind the idea of forcing discrete possessions onto a sport based on flow. Same thing would apply for hockey, also a sport that thrives on the flow of the game rather than easily discernible possessions.

I don't really have a problem with the concept of a tie. Even with that said, knockout tournaments require some sort of resolution. Since scoring in soccer is more rare than hockey, I can't fully support sudden death, but at the same time playing endless overtime isn't really a solution, either. Perhaps adding additional subs as extra time wears on?

Bigger picture, perhaps a slightly more liberal interpretation of offside would open up scoring just a touch more and avoid many of these scenarios.

 

[Priceless]

Re: World Soccer XIII: Through the Group Stages

Just a reminder:

Bracket Predictor

Group: USCHO
Password: hockey

"The World" bracket has Brazil beating Argentina in the final.

 

[Kepler]

Re: World Soccer XIII: Through the Group Stages

That's pretty good, never heard that one before. I can see that being abused though. Say Italy win a shootout before the match starts, doesn't that give them even more incentive to bunker in and play defensively than they usually have. Conversely, doesn't that make the other team go for it even more, and leave them open to counterattacks and goals against the run of play?

No more so though than a team getting up a goal early.

I thought this whole discussion was about knock out games. In the first round, it should just be a tie. There's nothing wrong with ties.

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: World Soccer XIII: Through the Group Stages

No more so though than a team getting up a goal early.

I thought this whole discussion was about knock out games. In the first round, it should just be a tie. There's nothing wrong with ties.

Sure, but if they get up a goal early, they've usually earned that goal. Giving them an advantage by virtue of winning a skills competition is a different thing entirely.


I agree there is nothing wrong with ties. I'm not sure anyone suggested doing away with them in the first round.

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: World Soccer XIII: Through the Group Stages

I agree there is nothing wrong with ties. I'm not sure anyone suggested doing away with them in the first round.

No one here did.

But if we manage to draw against England on Saturday, ESPN will explode.

 

[Kepler]

Re: World Soccer XIII: Through the Group Stages

No one here did.

But if we manage to draw against England on Saturday, ESPN will explode.

ESPN will find some dumb reason to explode anyway. It's what they do.

Ties are like environmentalists. Even when they're annoying, they more than make up for it by enraging the type of people who hate them.

 

[AMC]

Re: World Soccer XIII: Through the Group Stages

On ESPN2 right now

Spain 6 - Poland 0

Also, reports from England have Fulham signing former Arsenal defender Phillippe Senderos on a free transfer.

 

[jmh]

Re: World Soccer XIII: Through the Group Stages

Also, reports from England have Fulham signing former Arsenal defender Phillippe Senderos on a free transfer.

Also, from the "actual non-rumor transfer news" department, Fulham sign Philippe Senderos. Not a bad pickup for no transfer fee, certainly.

 

[BoomGoestheDynamite]

Re: World Soccer XIII: Through the Group Stages

If we absolutely must have shootouts, and they're about as popular as the BCS, I'd prefer the version MLS used in its early years. As I recall it resembled a hockey penalty shot. While its still fairly a poor way to decide a game, it does cut down on some of the luck factor (i.e. the goalie guesses the right way once)

 

[Terrierbyassociation]

Re: World Soccer XIII: Through the Group Stages

If we absolutely must have shootouts, and they're about as popular as the BCS, I'd prefer the version MLS used in its early years. As I recall it resembled a hockey penalty shot. While its still fairly a poor way to decide a game, it does cut down on some of the luck factor (i.e. the goalie guesses the right way once)

Oh, the one the NASL had? Pele himself that he thought it was better than penalties.

 

[jmh]

Re: World Soccer XIII: Through the Group Stages

If we absolutely must have shootouts, and they're about as popular as the BCS, I'd prefer the version MLS used in its early years. As I recall it resembled a hockey penalty shot. While its still fairly a poor way to decide a game, it does cut down on some of the luck factor (i.e. the goalie guesses the right way once)

I liked those a lot better than spot kicks. More skill, less randomness. Still an artificial situation, but less so, at least. More fun to watch, too. The powers that be at FIFA would never go for it though.

Fat Spanish Waiter to Inter.