Women's D1 Rankings/Polls 2011-2012

[northhockey]

Re: Women's D1 Rankings/Polls 2011-2012

My personal opinion is that after a tight game and energy filled overtime, the shootout doesn't prove that the better team that day is the winner. Just that the talented players came through. I would love to see maybe a 20 minute overtime instead of a 5, and still have a shootout after the extra 20. I think the result of that format would be more exciting for the fans and a better determination of the better team that day, while also not slowing down the game with a shootout

 

[OnMAA]

Re: Women's D1 Rankings/Polls 2011-2012

This assumes that all losses and wins should be condisered equally. I guess my point would be that BU according to the pollsters should lose to Cornell where as BC should have gone 3-0 not 2-1 against the unranked teams they played. I think what is shows quite frankly is a high level of ignorance by the pollsters overall as well as the bias mentioned in another post. Which over time consistantly rewards teams that schedule weaker competition.

Disagree. Both record and level of competition is taken into account. Lets look at the top 8 for argument sakes:

1	Wisconsin	(15)	15-1-0	150	1
2	Minnesota		14-2-0	130	2
3	Cornell		9-1-0	124	3
4	Boston College		10-4-1	99	4
5	North Dakota		10-5-1	80	6
6	Mercyhurst		10-2-0	77	7
7	Boston University		9-6-1	66	5
8	Bemidji State		10-5-2	34	NR

If your theory was correct, MC with their 10-2 record would be placed third, Cornell with their 9-1 record second and Minny would drop to fourth.

BU is the ONLY team in the top 8 with more than 5 losses. The fact they lost two games this weekend including one by a large margin is the reason they dropped two spots, while the other teams ranked near them last week, either had at least two wins, or gained a split.

 

[northhockey]

Re: Women's D1 Rankings/Polls 2011-2012

You also have to take in account that coaches are part of the voting system and they probably know a little more. Also, I dont think people should get worked up over it. It means nothing until the NCAA decides which teams can make them the most money in the tourney

 

[brookyone]

Re: Women's D1 Rankings/Polls 2011-2012

My personal opinion is that after a tight game and energy filled overtime, the shootout doesn't prove that the better team that day is the winner. Just that the talented players came through.

I agree. That's pretty much why my original point was that I believe the pollsters voting in the polls might very well feel the same, thus not giving a great deal of value, one way or the other for a shootout W or L when contemplating their rankings / votes...and the possibility OSU didn't get much mileage out of a shootout win vs. BSU.

 

[brookyone]

Re: Women's D1 Rankings/Polls 2011-2012

Also, I dont think people should get worked up over it. It means nothing until the NCAA decides which teams can make them the most money in the tourney

Good one!

Or maybe save them the most?

 

[MICZamboni]

Re: Women's D1 Rankings/Polls 2011-2012

I must say I am just a little surprised there was no movement in the top 6 but I do understand it means very little till the end of the year.


1 Wisconsin (15) 17-1-0 150 1
2 Minnesota 15-3-0 130 2
3 Cornell 10-2-0 122 3
4 Boston College 12-4-1 100 4
5 North Dakota 11-6-1 84 5
6 Mercyhurst 11-3-0 82 6
7 Bemidji State 10-5-2 47 8
8 Northeastern 12-4-1 35 10
9 Boston University 10-8-1 30 7
10 Minnesota-Duluth 8-7-1 28 9
Others receiving votes: Harvard 12, Ohio State 3, Clarkson 2.

Read more: http://www.uscho.com/rankings/#ixzz1fgIFtTRo

 

[ARM]

Re: Women's D1 Rankings/Polls 2011-2012

I must say I am just a little surprised there was no movement in the top 6 but I do understand it means very little till the end of the year.

And then it still doesn't mean anything. On the bright side for MC fans, you gained more votes than anyone else in the top 6 did. UMD had their first conference sweep of the season, and they dropped a place to a team that didn't sweep the last-place team in their league.

 

[DC78-82]

Re: Women's D1 Rankings/Polls 2011-2012

USCHO.com Division I Women's Poll
December 05, 2011
Team (First Place Votes) Record......Points.........Last Poll
1 Wisconsin (15)............17-1-0.......150..............1
2 Minnesota...................15-3-0.......130...............2
3 Cornell........................10-2-0.......122...............3
4 Boston College..............12-4-1......100...............4
5 North Dakota................11-6-1........84...............5
6 Mercyhurst...................11-3-0........82..............6
7 Bemidji State................10-5-2........47..............8
8 Northeastern.................12-4-1.......35..............10
9 Boston University...........10-8-1........30..............7
10 Minnesota-Duluth............8-7-1........28...............9
Others receiving votes: Harvard 12, Ohio State 3, Clarkson 2.


Read more: http://www.uscho.com/rankings/?type=w#ixzz1fgIVXtQB

I guess Northeastern's 2 - 0 win over BU Wednesday more than counteracts the Tie vs. UNH, which I figured to be a bigger blemish despite the W in the rematch. I expected Mercyhurst's win (split) to carry more weight too, given that BC really squeaked out their weekend points. And Providence had a pretty convincing win over BU followed by a close rematch that they held the lead for most of the game in, but didn't get votes? *

*I'm sure there will be answers mathematically and logistically to my musings!

 

[dave1381]

Re: Women's D1 Rankings/Polls 2011-2012

I feel North Dakota & perhaps Mercyhurst should've jumped BC each with home splits of top 3 teams, compared to a road sweep of Maine. BC's best results are a 4-2 record against the teams ranked 8-10. I saw perhaps Mercyhurst because they have as many losses to 11-20 range teams as BC, while North Dakota's profile is altogether strong right now. North Dakota's record against the 8-12 type teams (4-3-1) isn't quite as strong as BC's, but North Dakota's lack of losses to weaker opponents and win over Minnesota are enough to make up for it in my judgment.

It's really ironic that North Dakota hurt itself in polls by blowing out OSU so badly. The reaction has been, "OSU must really suck." But if North Dakota had instead beaten OSU in two close games, then OSU would probably be ranked and those would be two quality wins. Ridiculous.

 

[ARM]

Re: Women's D1 Rankings/Polls 2011-2012

I guess Northeastern's 2 - 0 win over BU Wednesday more than counteracts the Tie vs. UNH, which I figured to be a bigger blemish despite the W in the rematch. I expected Mercyhurst's win (split) to carry more weight too, given that BC really squeaked out their weekend points. And Providence had a pretty convincing win over BU followed by a close rematch that they held the lead for most of the game in, but didn't get votes?

I don't have a problem with NU moving up despite my comment, because UMD has been living on borrowed time, and BU is clearly not on their game right now. I'm not sure how the voters analyze the Terriers at this point; are opponents given full credit for beating them, or do those games get an asterisk because it is BU light.

 

[OnMAA]

Re: Women's D1 Rankings/Polls 2011-2012

USCHO.com Division I Women's Poll
December 05, 2011
Team (First Place Votes) Record......Points.........Last Poll
1 Wisconsin (15)............17-1-0.......150..............1
2 Minnesota...................15-3-0.......130...............2
3 Cornell........................10-2-0.......122...............3
4 Boston College..............12-4-1......100...............4
5 North Dakota................11-6-1........84...............5
6 Mercyhurst...................11-3-0........82..............6
7 Bemidji State................10-5-2........47..............8
8 Northeastern.................12-4-1.......35..............10
9 Boston University...........10-8-1........30..............7
10 Minnesota-Duluth............8-7-1........28...............9
Others receiving votes: Harvard 12, Ohio State 3, Clarkson 2.


Read more: http://www.uscho.com/rankings/?type=w#ixzz1fgIVXtQB

I guess Northeastern's 2 - 0 win over BU Wednesday more than counteracts the Tie vs. UNH, which I figured to be a bigger blemish despite the W in the rematch. I expected Mercyhurst's win (split) to carry more weight too, given that BC really squeaked out their weekend points. And Providence had a pretty convincing win over BU followed by a close rematch that they held the lead for most of the game in, but didn't get votes? *

*I'm sure there will be answers mathematically and logistically to my musings!

Let me weigh in on some.....

Wisco stays first...That is easy
Minny stays two...Split with No 5 UND...Equivalent to Cornell Split
Cornell stays three...Split with No 6 MC....Equivalent to Minny Split
BC stays four.....Swept midpack Maine....Sweep, but no loss means not moving down.
UND Stays Five...Split with No 2 Minny....Not enough pass BC who swept Maine and has two less losses overall
MC stays six.....Split with No 3 Cornell...Equivelent to UND, so no move up.
BSU up 8 to 7....Idle, but BU lost two of three, both to teams ranked below BSU.
NE up 10 to 8....Beat no 8 BU and got three of four points in other two games, Only 4 lossed for the year.
BU down 7 -9...Lost to no 10 NE and unranked Providence.
UMD down 9 to 10...Won both games, but against bottem end team. NE's win over BU and NE's over record, moved them ahead of UMD.

While there was little movement, Wisco is an even more clear No 1. If BU continues to struggle, they will drop out of the top 10 soon.

 

[OnMAA]

Re: Women's D1 Rankings/Polls 2011-2012

And then it still doesn't mean anything. On the bright side for MC fans, you gained more votes than anyone else in the top 6 did. UMD had their first conference sweep of the season, and they dropped a place to a team that didn't sweep the last-place team in their league.

But that very team you mentioned played three games, beat a No 8 team in that game, and that is what propelled them ahead of the other team.

 

[OnMAA]

Re: Women's D1 Rankings/Polls 2011-2012

There is a chance for some serious movement this week.

BC vs MC series and UND vs UMD series. If both series end in a split, expect little movement, but if there are sweeps in either or both, expect some shuffling of the rankings.

BSU vs Wisco series, and another BU-NE midweek game on tap as well.

 

[OnMAA]

Re: Women's D1 Rankings/Polls 2011-2012

Well, one poll has Minny ranked first, mostly courtesy their stellar Defensive record.!

http://it.stlawu.edu/~chodr/wchodr/current.html

 

[ARM]

Re: Women's D1 Rankings/Polls 2011-2012

BC stays four.....Swept midpack Maine....Sweep, but no loss means not moving down.

That's true if one only looks at the games from the last week and assumes that the previous ranking was accurate. The way I look at BC and Maine is that the first game was a convincing win for the Black Bears on the scoreboard. One would expect the Eagles to come back and emphatically show that result was a fluke. Instead, two white-knuckle wins makes me think that there isn't as much separation between #4 BC and mid-pack Maine as would be expected. Sure, we can get into all kinds of shots-on-goal analysis, but the reality is that BC has four losses and a tie, all to teams outside of the top 8.

 

[ARM]

Re: Women's D1 Rankings/Polls 2011-2012

Well, one poll has Minny ranked first, mostly courtesy their stellar Defensive record.!

It doesn't include the last week. To date, UM has been two different teams at home and away. One is dominant, the other just good.

 

[OnMAA]

Re: Women's D1 Rankings/Polls 2011-2012

That's true if one only looks at the games from the last week and assumes that the previous ranking was accurate. The way I look at BC and Maine is that the first game was a convincing win for the Black Bears on the scoreboard. One would expect the Eagles to come back and emphatically show that result was a fluke. Instead, two white-knuckle wins makes me think that there isn't as much separation between #4 BC and mid-pack Maine as would be expected. Sure, we can get into all kinds of shots-on-goal analysis, but the reality is that BC has four losses and a tie, all to teams outside of the top 8.

You are correct, in that I made the assumption that prior weeks rankings were correct, to base my movement, or in most case lack of movement, commentary.

As you can see from the BSU move, sometimes it pays to sit idle while other teams duke it out. As long as BC has a good record against top 12 type teams, no reason to penalise them for tight wins against lower teams. At the end of the day the games vs the other teams in the tournament sweepstakes will determine your matchups and rankings more than anything else.

For what it is worth, throwing all math out of the window, not convinced BC will maintain their current spot. I suspect that both UND and MC will move ahead of them in the not too distant future. In addition, with NE's resurgence and if BU gets healthy, BC might be hard pressed to make it as an at large entry, if they do not get to the HE final.

 

[ARM]

Re: Women's D1 Rankings/Polls 2011-2012

As long as BC has a good record against top 12 type teams, no reason to penalise them for tight wins against lower teams. ...

It's basically the Northeastern wins that have BC at #4. Splits with UMD and BU alone would not support them being that high, and they don't have other results to date against upper echelon teams.

For what it is worth, throwing all math out of the window, not convinced BC will maintain their current spot. I suspect that both UND and MC will move ahead of them in the not too distant future. In addition, with NE's resurgence and if BU gets healthy, BC might be hard pressed to make it as an at large entry, if they do not get to the HE final.

The Mercyhurst@BC series will be huge in working all of that out.

 

[Blackbeard]

Re: Women's D1 Rankings/Polls 2011-2012

After a split with UMD, UM drops one spot in the rankings (probably helped by UW's blowout of UND...but then they tied and lost in a shoot out the next day) and UMD treads water.

Does this make a lot of sense to anyone? I would have thought that UMD would advance by one.

http://www.uscho.com/rankings/d-i-womens-poll/

 

[pakidnyc]

Re: Women's D1 Rankings/Polls 2011-2012

After a split with UMD, UM drops one spot in the rankings (probably helped by UW's blowout of UND...but then they tied and lost in a shoot out the next day) and UMD treads water.

Does this make a lot of sense to anyone? I would have thought that UMD would advance by one.

http://www.uscho.com/rankings/d-i-womens-poll/

Well, the problem is that those right in front of you didn't do anything to warrant dropping down either. I am not even sure why the switch of MN and UW -- they each lost 1 game on the weekend. And Cornell won two in pretty convincing fashion, but they don't get any chance to move up. I am a little surprised that Mercyhurst didn't drop at all -- they barely beat Syracuse and Niagara in the last week (OT in 2 of the games). And I am big fan of what Mark Hudak is doing up in Hanover, I was surprised to see Dartmouth move back into 10th with a 3-2 win over Union....should have been more convincing, in my opinion. But, they have a chance to move up more with Big Red coming to town this Sat. (Rematch and Cornell's only ECAC loss this season).

While this is all good locker room (and blog) fodder, at the end of the day, they have to play the games....it's nice to see 4 teams from the East in the top-8 and 6 in the top-10 (3 from ECAC and all 3 from Ivy League -- quite impressive!)